The Islamic State in Iraq and the Levant Megathread

Started by Tamas, June 10, 2014, 07:37:01 AM

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garbon

"I've never been quite sure what the point of a eunuch is, if truth be told. It seems to me they're only men with the useful bits cut off."
I drank because I wanted to drown my sorrows, but now the damned things have learned to swim.

Berkut

Meh.

ISIS has been doing horrible things from the start - what is one more horrible thing?

Either the people who aligned with them turn on them, or more horrible things will keep happening.

It is just a matter of time - they don't seem capable of not believing their own mythology.
"If you think this has a happy ending, then you haven't been paying attention."

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Tamas

Quote from: Berkut on July 24, 2014, 10:14:40 AM
Meh.

ISIS has been doing horrible things from the start - what is one more horrible thing?

Either the people who aligned with them turn on them, or more horrible things will keep happening.

It is just a matter of time - they don't seem capable of not believing their own mythology.

The world could totally use some Jewish airstrikes against ISIS, to raise this issue into prime news time.

DGuller

Quote from: Tamas on July 24, 2014, 10:02:26 AM
Quote from: DGuller on July 24, 2014, 10:00:09 AM
Quote from: Valmy on July 24, 2014, 08:30:17 AM
I eagerly await all those totally not anti-semites and totally pro-humanists to march all around Europe to protest ISIS on this.
I don't think anti-Israeli sentiment is about anti-Semitism.  I think it's about two things:  the inability of people who lived in peace their whole life to comprehend that war is a nasty business, and the bigotry of low expectations.  Israel is a western state, so it's expected to act in a civilized manner, whereas you can't really expect anything other than brutal violence from the Arabs.

You would have a point if it wasn't totally about anti-Semitism. I have yet to encounter somebody who was anti-Israel in these matters and didn't have funny ideas about the role of Jews in the world.
I have.

Valmy

Quote from: DGuller on July 24, 2014, 10:52:31 AM
I have.

Europeans?  I know some Americans have crazy anti-Israeli thoughts like 'maybe continuing to give these dudes a half billion a year is not entirely in our interests' sometimes.
Quote"This is a Russian warship. I propose you lay down arms and surrender to avoid bloodshed & unnecessary victims. Otherwise, you'll be bombed."

Zmiinyi defenders: "Russian warship, go fuck yourself."

derspiess

Quote from: Tamas on July 24, 2014, 10:34:50 AM
The world could totally use some Jewish airstrikes against ISIS, to raise this issue into prime news time.

Suddenly ISIS would become sympathetic victims if that happened.
"If you can play a guitar and harmonica at the same time, like Bob Dylan or Neil Young, you're a genius. But make that extra bit of effort and strap some cymbals to your knees, suddenly people want to get the hell away from you."  --Rich Hall

Valmy

Quote from: derspiess on July 24, 2014, 11:19:13 AM
Quote from: Tamas on July 24, 2014, 10:34:50 AM
The world could totally use some Jewish airstrikes against ISIS, to raise this issue into prime news time.

Suddenly ISIS would become sympathetic victims if that happened.

I can see it now: ISIS storming into Jordan and the West Bank massacring every man woman and child.  Israel gets nervous when they get too close to their settlers and bombs them.  The next day thousands in Europe protest Israeli genocide.
Quote"This is a Russian warship. I propose you lay down arms and surrender to avoid bloodshed & unnecessary victims. Otherwise, you'll be bombed."

Zmiinyi defenders: "Russian warship, go fuck yourself."

Viking

Quote from: DGuller on July 24, 2014, 10:00:09 AM
Quote from: Valmy on July 24, 2014, 08:30:17 AM
I eagerly await all those totally not anti-semites and totally pro-humanists to march all around Europe to protest ISIS on this.
I don't think anti-Israeli sentiment is about anti-Semitism.  I think it's about two things:  the inability of people who lived in peace their whole life to comprehend that war is a nasty business, and the bigotry of low expectations.  Israel is a western state, so it's expected to act in a civilized manner, whereas you can't really expect anything other than brutal violence from the Arabs.

It is about your identity. Israel is a place holder or a vicarious target for something else in your life that annoys or bothers you. Where you stand of capitalism, free markets, redistribution and environmental issues is determinative of if you are anti-israel or pro-israel. I think it is obvious that it is not a split between pro-pals and pro-j00s, it is anti and pro israel. Note this is probably why the debate gets tricky for the pro-israel side since they find themselves having to justify or explain the real hard choices that need to be made while the anti-israel side merely attacks whatever hard choices Israel does make.

Alan Dershowitz's schtick about keeping Israel a bi-partisan issue is getting harder to maintain because it really isn't about israel, it's about the israel hater. This is why nobody gives a shit when arabs are massacred in greater numbers AT THE SAME TIME in Syria and Iraq today. On the 22nd alone (I think) more people died in syria from combat than have died in total in teh gaza war so far.

For arabs and muslims it is about their identity and dignity as arabs and muslims. Their impotence in stopping Israel shames them. For Socialists and lefties attacking israel is affirming their own communal belonging and their own expression of their values.

It's not about what the facts are it is about who you are.
First Maxim - "There are only two amounts, too few and enough."
First Corollary - "You cannot have too many soldiers, only too few supplies."
Second Maxim - "Be willing to exchange a bad idea for a good one."
Second Corollary - "You can only be wrong or agree with me."

A terrorist which starts a slaughter quoting Locke, Burke and Mill has completely missed the point.
The fact remains that the only person or group to applaud the Norway massacre are random Islamists.

derspiess

Quote from: Viking on July 24, 2014, 11:29:07 AM
It is about your identity. Israel is a place holder or a vicarious target for something else in your life that annoys or bothers you.

"In a way, each of us has an El Guapo to face. For some, shyness might be their El Guapo. For others, a lack of education might be their El Guapo. For us, El Guapo is a big, dangerous man who wants to kill us. But as sure as my name is Lucky Day, the people of Santa Poco can conquer their own personal El Guapo, who also happens to be *the actual* El Guapo!"
"If you can play a guitar and harmonica at the same time, like Bob Dylan or Neil Young, you're a genius. But make that extra bit of effort and strap some cymbals to your knees, suddenly people want to get the hell away from you."  --Rich Hall

Viking

Quote from: derspiess on July 24, 2014, 11:33:48 AM
Quote from: Viking on July 24, 2014, 11:29:07 AM
It is about your identity. Israel is a place holder or a vicarious target for something else in your life that annoys or bothers you.

"In a way, each of us has an El Guapo to face. For some, shyness might be their El Guapo. For others, a lack of education might be their El Guapo. For us, El Guapo is a big, dangerous man who wants to kill us. But as sure as my name is Lucky Day, the people of Santa Poco can conquer their own personal El Guapo, who also happens to be *the actual* El Guapo!"

http://mypersonaljihad.tumblr.com/
First Maxim - "There are only two amounts, too few and enough."
First Corollary - "You cannot have too many soldiers, only too few supplies."
Second Maxim - "Be willing to exchange a bad idea for a good one."
Second Corollary - "You can only be wrong or agree with me."

A terrorist which starts a slaughter quoting Locke, Burke and Mill has completely missed the point.
The fact remains that the only person or group to applaud the Norway massacre are random Islamists.

garbon

Quote from: Viking on July 24, 2014, 11:38:15 AM
Quote from: derspiess on July 24, 2014, 11:33:48 AM
Quote from: Viking on July 24, 2014, 11:29:07 AM
It is about your identity. Israel is a place holder or a vicarious target for something else in your life that annoys or bothers you.

"In a way, each of us has an El Guapo to face. For some, shyness might be their El Guapo. For others, a lack of education might be their El Guapo. For us, El Guapo is a big, dangerous man who wants to kill us. But as sure as my name is Lucky Day, the people of Santa Poco can conquer their own personal El Guapo, who also happens to be *the actual* El Guapo!"

http://mypersonaljihad.tumblr.com/

Aww, I like:

QuoteMy sister told me that when she was little and saw white people in make up commercials and never black people, she thought it was just because white people were ugly and black people were beautiful and didn't need make up
"I've never been quite sure what the point of a eunuch is, if truth be told. It seems to me they're only men with the useful bits cut off."
I drank because I wanted to drown my sorrows, but now the damned things have learned to swim.

derspiess

"If you can play a guitar and harmonica at the same time, like Bob Dylan or Neil Young, you're a genius. But make that extra bit of effort and strap some cymbals to your knees, suddenly people want to get the hell away from you."  --Rich Hall

DGuller

Quote from: Valmy on July 24, 2014, 11:04:31 AM
Quote from: DGuller on July 24, 2014, 10:52:31 AM
I have.

Europeans?  I know some Americans have crazy anti-Israeli thoughts like 'maybe continuing to give these dudes a half billion a year is not entirely in our interests' sometimes.
Americans.

mongers

It's like these guys stepped out of internet forums and decided, lets organise and troll the West. 

This is merely their greatest troll so far, they've found a issue that none* in the west won't be reviled by and are now running with it.
I can only assume because the Ukraine shoot-down and Gaza have taken away their publicity oxygen.



* you fill in the blanks, presumably some in some immigrant communities.
"We have it in our power to begin the world over again"

derspiess

I don't think I know anyone who is anti-Israel.  I know some who probably are, but they're furriners.
"If you can play a guitar and harmonica at the same time, like Bob Dylan or Neil Young, you're a genius. But make that extra bit of effort and strap some cymbals to your knees, suddenly people want to get the hell away from you."  --Rich Hall