The Islamic State in Iraq and the Levant Megathread

[CountDeMoney]

I'm slowly coming around to the "let's kill 'em all" camp with these ISIS asfucks.

They destroyed the Tomb of Jonah.  Shit like that isn't just an offense to Muslims they don't agree with, that's an affront to history and humanity.

http://www.washingtonpost.com/news/morning-mix/wp/2014/07/25/after-leveling-iraqs-tomb-of-jonah-the-islamic-state-could-destroy-anything-in-the-bible/?tid=hp_mm

[derspiess]

Translation:

The Obama administration had no fucking idea what to do, and frankly, that is largely because there was and is no good idea about what to do.

You have a set of various bad actors - who do you decide to help?

My translation is close but slightly different.
What we see now is the policy.  Of all the things that ISIS could do - getting themselves stuck between the resurgent Kurds and a mass of poorly organized but angry Sh'ia is the best case scenario - effective containment at low cost the USA.    If Maliki had been willing to play ball then it could have played out different but since he didn't, let the Iranians bail out their stooge.

Definitely like the low cost part.

[Viking]

Translation:

The Obama administration had no fucking idea what to do, and frankly, that is largely because there was and is no good idea about what to do.

You have a set of various bad actors - who do you decide to help?

My translation is close but slightly different.
What we see now is the policy.  Of all the things that ISIS could do - getting themselves stuck between the resurgent Kurds and a mass of poorly organized but angry Sh'ia is the best case scenario - effective containment at low cost the USA.    If Maliki had been willing to play ball then it could have played out different but since he didn't, let the Iranians bail out their stooge.

Definitely like the low cost part.

I see Bush's cunning plan now

hand the tar baby over to Iran. Let them bleed.

[Crazy_Ivan80]

I'm slowly coming around to the "let's kill 'em all" camp with these ISIS asfucks.

They destroyed the Tomb of Jonah.  Shit like that isn't just an offense to Muslims they don't agree with, that's an affront to history and humanity.

http://www.washingtonpost.com/news/morning-mix/wp/2014/07/25/after-leveling-iraqs-tomb-of-jonah-the-islamic-state-could-destroy-anything-in-the-bible/?tid=hp_mm

given the example their prophet made that whole religion/ideology is an affront to humanity and history.

[grumbler]

I'm slowly coming around to the "let's kill 'em all" camp with these ISIS asfucks.

They destroyed the Tomb of Jonah.  Shit like that isn't just an offense to Muslims they don't agree with, that's an affront to history and humanity.

http://www.washingtonpost.com/news/morning-mix/wp/2014/07/25/after-leveling-iraqs-tomb-of-jonah-the-islamic-state-could-destroy-anything-in-the-bible/?tid=hp_mm

Don't sweat the destruction of phony history.  They could blow up the Temple of Jar Jar or even the Temple of Superman and I'd not shed a tear.  Sucks for the people living nearby, though.

[mongers]

I'm slowly coming around to the "let's kill 'em all" camp with these ISIS asfucks.

They destroyed the Tomb of Jonah.  Shit like that isn't just an offense to Muslims they don't agree with, that's an affront to history and humanity.

http://www.washingtonpost.com/news/morning-mix/wp/2014/07/25/after-leveling-iraqs-tomb-of-jonah-the-islamic-state-could-destroy-anything-in-the-bible/?tid=hp_mm

The Saudis have been doing that bullshit(bulldozing) for years, whether it's a common or garden old muslim cemetery or small Jewish cities/trading posts.

I wonder if there's a connection? 

[Sheilbh]

It seems that the call for cutting all women may have been a fake.

I was surprised when the story came across; since FGM is widely practiced in parts of Africa (both Christian and Muslim) but not in the Middle East.

Yeah, same. It's a cultural not a religious thing.

I've never seen anything about it in anything I've read about extreme jihadi groups. It just doesn't seem to be on their horizon.

Odd of the UN person to just say it was happening - based on statements by the Kurdish and Iraqi governments - without trying to look into a bit.

[jimmy olsen]

Video of American suicide bomber released.

http://news.yahoo.com/al-qaeda-releases-video-us-suicide-bomber-syria-071310074.html

[jimmy olsen]

A rather unfortunate name on this guy. 

http://www.dailystar.com.lb/News/Middle-East/2014/Jul-28/265344-assad-supporters-aghast-at-losses-to-isis.ashx#ixzz38k2dXegX

Assad supporters aghast at losses to ISIS

Marlin Dick| The Daily Star

BEIRUT: A series of recent setbacks for the Syrian regime on the battlefield – most spectacularly at the hands of ISIS – have sparked outrage in the ranks of loyalists.

Some of the most ardent supporters of the regime have been aghast at the news that hundreds of regime soldiers and paramilitaries were killed in battles with ISIS in three different provinces over the last 10 days: the Shaar gas field in rural Homs, the Division 17 military base outside the city of Raqqa, and the Regiment 121 post in rural Hassakeh.

The regime had been stepping up its aerial attacks on ISIS positions in Raqqa before the recent confrontations on the ground, but anti-regime activists who strongly object to the presence of ISIS in the Syrian uprising complained that the strikes did more damage to civilians than to the hard-line Al-Qaeda splinter group.

The Syrian Observatory for Human Rights, an anti-regime monitoring group based in Britain, estimates that 1,100 regime troops and paramilitaries have been killed since President Bashar Assad's inauguration speech on July 17, when he confidently declared "victory" against the terrorists he said were bent on toppling his regime.

In the wake of the speech, half a dozen battlefronts heated up around the country, with mainstream and Islamist rebels achieving small but significant victories in provinces such as Deraa and Hama, and with ISIS more noticeably in the central and northern areas.

For Aram Nerguizian, a senior fellow with the CSIS think tank in Washington, the gains by ISIS against regime positions represents a process that is likely to continue.

"The story will play out over quite a bit of time, irrespective of immediate regime losses," Nerguizian told The Daily Star. " ISIS is shifting some of its attention to Assad-controlled territory at a time when regime forces are prioritizing Aleppo, Iraqi fighters have returned home [to fight ISIS], and Hezbollah is focused on Qalamoun and pacifying the anti-Lebanon mountain chain," he said.

It is of little comfort to loyalists, who complained that state media remained silent about what was taking place, as they anxiously sought news about the fate of hundreds of soldiers who went missing during the fighting in Raqqa. Social media platforms quickly circulated photos of ISIS' grim retribution against military personnel in Raqqa, in the form of the severed heads of half a dozen soldiers, put on public display.

Pro-regime Facebook pages were also busy publishing lists of names of the soldiers and officers who fled the post and survived ambush by ISIS militants, finally making it to neighboring Hassakeh province.

Although the Shaar gas field area was retaken over the weekend, and dozens of ISIS militants reportedly killed, it did little to assuage the anger.

"There was only a few days between the disaster at Division 17 and the loss of the Shaar gas field, but it was enough to reveal the decrepit state of military, security and media leaders," one supporter of the regime wrote, expressing the general mood.

"Where do the senior military leaders stand on what is happening?" she asked. "Division 17 was besieged for two years, and ISIS announced it would attack before the Eid al-Fitr [holiday]. Where was the support, and the planes? Or is your role limited only to stealing and looting?"

Joshua Landis, the Syria Comment blogger and the head of the Center for Middle East Studies at The University of Oklahoma, said the regime's strategy of dealing with ISIS, which last month spearheaded a similar, sudden offensive in Iraq, appeared to be "backfiring."

"The Assad regime has given ISIS a pass for many months, in part because Assad has hoped that ISIS' growth would spook the West," Landis told The Daily Star. "But this cynical strategy seems to be backfiring today. ISIS is spooking Syrians even more than it is Westerners, and with good reason. ISIS is slashing and burning its way through a number of regime strongholds, and Syrians fear that their government has underestimated ISIS," Landis said.

According to an anti-regime media activist not aligned with the political opposition, the rage being expressed against the regime for its military performance has been unprecedented.

"It's the first time that they have been cursing the president by name, and holding him responsible," the activist, who requested anonymity, said. "They've never been in such a state before."

Anti-regime activist groups, meanwhile, have relayed the news of the regime losses in Raqqa and Hassakeh, but in many cases the news was reported in matter-of-fact fashion, empty of any celebratory comments.

(The Daily Star :: Lebanon News :: http://www.dailystar.com.lb)

[KRonn]

The Arab Spring uprisings have been failures and became stepping stones for radicals. Libya is failing, Egypt is hanging on for now but the military ousted the Muslim Brotherhood. Iraq is going down the tubes. Syria could possibly follow with extremists toppling the regime. ISIS supposedly has its intentions on Jordan at some point. Maybe instead of opposing, now the US and Euro nations should give military aid on behalf of Assad to help fight ISIS!

[Baron von Schtinkenbutt]

Well, we are getting Bush's Mideast domino effect.  Just not the one we wanted.

[Berkut]

Progress is messy.

If you want to make sure messy things don't happen, just don't let anything change.

That was western policy for a very long time, resulting in us propping up a variety of non-democratic regimes for decades.

I submit that the results of that policy have been a decent amount of stability in the region, with almost no progress on anyone developing any kind of actual democratic foundations.

If we actually believe in democracy as the best way to run things in the long run, we need to have some faith in the short run. The results in the short and medium term might suck, but I don't think that mess is avoidable if there is any chance for progress to be made.

[DGuller]

I wonder what the difference between Asian tigers and Middle East shitholes is.  Asian tigers started off their ascent as unabashed dictatorships as well, but somewhere along the way at least some of them became real democracies without much bloodshed.

[frunk]

I wonder what the difference between Asian tigers and Middle East shitholes is.  Asian tigers started off their ascent as unabashed dictatorships as well, but somewhere along the way at least some of them became real democracies without much bloodshed.

I think it's a question of how tightly held the power is.  If control is concentrated in a small family/group of people it's tougher to transition to any sort of democracy, while a dictatorship that isn't unified in that small group and/or is dependent on outside the inner circle support is able to slide into an actual democracy easier.

[Berkut]

I wonder what the difference between Asian tigers and Middle East shitholes is.  Asian tigers started off their ascent as unabashed dictatorships as well, but somewhere along the way at least some of them became real democracies without much bloodshed.

I think it's a question of how tightly held the power is.  If control is concentrated in a small family/group of people it's tougher to transition to any sort of democracy, while a dictatorship that isn't unified in that small group and/or is dependent on outside the inner circle support is able to slide into an actual democracy easier.

My speculation is that this kind of success is based on three key factors:

1. National/group identity that aligns with the political construct.
2. A reasonably well educated society.
3. A healthy respect for the basic rule of law.

I suspect that a country like Iran or Saudi Arabia, for example, would have a much greater chance for a reasonably smooth transition compared to somewhere like Iraq.

But even at that, there is still the potential for a mess where there is a lack of good governmental practice in place, like Egypt.