Russo-Ukrainian War 2014-26

[crazy canuck]

That's fine, then the pressure is off Ukraine.

[Crazy_Ivan80]

The wishlist seems to have been watered down by the Europeans and Rubio in Geneva so the russians can then predictably turn it down.

which they did by now

[Josquius]

Didn't they already turn down their own the American proposal?

[Valmy]

This situation is so insane as to blow my mind. We really are just bending everything just to try to give Trump pathetic popular wins. Who gives a fuck what it actually means? Trump's image over everything.

And Russia seems bent on some kind of national suicide pact. They are so egotistical about their position as masters of their domain they would rather die than simply tolerate being a normal country.

Insanity and ego completely dominate good sense and basic statecraft.

The world has gone mad.

[Jacob]

The world is catering to Trump's ego because he sits at the top of the world's most powerful military, and the world's biggest economy.

If there was any type of cosmic justice someone as morally repugnant as Trump would not be in that position, but the US finds itself in a situation where its levers of powers have been captured by the corrupt, the self-serving, and the straight up evil.

[Jacob]

So it looks like Ukraine is doing the "okay we'll agree, with only a few minor details to hammer out" thing... so now Russia can reject the peace proposal again and Trump can do whatever he's going to do in response.

[Tamas]

So it looks like Ukraine is doing the "okay we'll agree, with only a few minor details to hammer out" thing... so now Russia can reject the peace proposal again and Trump can do whatever he's going to do in response.

This dance is much better than forcing Ukraine to surrender, but also very tiresome. Trump is, by far, the worst world leader of any consequence during my lifetime. Somebody like Boris Johnson is a towering avatar of statemanship compared to him. Heck, I'd take Lizz Truss as US President over him.

[Valmy]

The world is catering to Trump's ego because he sits at the top of the world's most powerful military, and the world's biggest economy.

If there was any type of cosmic justice someone as morally repugnant as Trump would not be in that position, but the US finds itself in a situation where its levers of powers have been captured by the corrupt, the self-serving, and the straight up evil.

I am talking about the US doing this. I know why the rest of the world plays along. But we are actively allowing him to just fuck up our foreign policy for no other higher goal than satisfying his ego.

Even for a President that is ridiculous.

And we did because our country is full of evil people. Nobody should ever trust us again.

[Tonitrus]

I think Weiss here provides a pretty good rundown/analysis of this whole clusterfluck:

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=_WU0AJDCx5U

[Tonitrus]

Explosive transcript of phone call between Trump administration envoy and Putin adviser leaks

The contents of a phone call involving Donald Trump's top negotiator and a close adviser to Vladimir Putin have been revealed to the public.

November 26, 2025 - 1:33PM

A leaked transcript has revealed the contents of a phone call between Steve Witkoff, the businessman who has been acting as Donald Trump's envoy negotiating with Ukraine and Russia, and Yuri Ushakov, a senior foreign policy adviser to Vladimir Putin.

In part of the transcript, obtained by Bloomberg, Mr Witkoff seems to be coaching the Russians on how Putin should flatter Mr Trump, during an upcoming conversation, to make him more amenable.

"I would make the call and just reiterate that you congratulate the President on his achievement, that you supported it, that you supported it, that you respect that he is a man of peace and you're just, you're glad to have seen it happen," he tells Uskakov, alluding to the Israel-Hamas war.

"So I would say that. I think, from that, it's going to be a really good call. Because let me tell you what I told the President. I told the President that you, the Russian Federation, always wanted a peace deal. That is my belief. I told the President I believe that.

"I'm even thinking we that maybe we set out, like, a 20-point peace proposal, just like we did in Gaza. We put a 20-point Trump plan together."

At another point, Mr Witkoff says he knows "what it's going to take to get a peace deal done" before specifying "Donetsk, and maybe a land swap somewhere".

"But I'm saying instead of talking like that, let's talk more hopefully, because I think we're going to get to a deal here. And I think, Yuri, the President will give me a lot of space and discretion to get to the deal."

That call took place on October 14. Bloomberg also got the transcript from one on October 29, between Ushakov and Kirill Dimitriev, an economic advisor to Putin.

In it, the pair discuss creating a "paper" for Dimitriev to "pass along" to the Americans.

"I think we'll just make this paper from our position, and I'll informally pass it along, making it clear that it's all informal. And let them do, like, their own," Dimitriev says.

"But I don't think they'll take exactly our version. But at least it'll be as close to it as possible."

That conversation was a little under a month before the Trump administration offered up its 28-point plan for a peace deal between Ukraine and Russia. The origins of that plan remain murky - officially, the Trump administration says America developed it with input from the Russians and Ukrainians, but reporting has suggested it blindsided the US State Department, including Secretary of State Marco Rubio.

[Jacob]

Utter moral rot

[Zanza]

Treason

[HisMajestyBOB]

The world is catering to Trump's ego because he sits at the top of the world's most powerful military, and the world's biggest economy.

If there was any type of cosmic justice someone as morally repugnant as Trump would not be in that position, but the US finds itself in a situation where its levers of powers have been captured by the corrupt, the self-serving, and the straight up evil.

I am talking about the US doing this. I know why the rest of the world plays along. But we are actively allowing him to just fuck up our foreign policy for no other higher goal than satisfying his ego.

Even for a President that is ridiculous.

And we did because our country is full of evil people. Nobody should ever trust us again.

Why not? Every other part of society seems to be folding to Trump faster than Superman on laundry day. Universities, law firms, media (those few networks that aren't actually cheering him on), even the supposed opposition. Might as well throw foreign policy on the pile.

[HisMajestyBOB]

Though on the other hand, at this point it's clear that JD Vance would be far worse for Ukraine than Trump is.

[Jacob]

Though on the other hand, at this point it's clear that JD Vance would be far worse for Ukraine than Trump is.

Yeah, Thiel is obviously evil.