What does a TRUMP presidency look like?

[crazy canuck]

I don't think you are evil Raz, just misguided.

[Admiral Yi]

No, I think it's important we all understand why people are hypocritical, that is because they are evil racists, and that ostracize them for it.

That is not the only reason people are hypocritical IMO.

[Jacob]

Judiciously applied hypocrisy is a necessary skill to survive in the modern world (and probably before that too). Those who claim otherwise are either deluded, utterly without principles and beliefs of any sort (and therefore beyond hypocrisy), and/or (ironically) being hypocritical.

[Admiral Yi]

Judiciously applied hypocrisy is a necessary skill to survive in the modern world (and probably before that too). Those who claim otherwise are either deluded, utterly without principles and beliefs of any sort (and therefore beyond hypocrisy), and/or (ironically) being hypocritical.

I would deeply appreciate it if you were to elaborate.  I have a primal urge to call this post-modern nonsense but my principles require me to extend you the opportunity to explain your reasoning.

[Zoupa]

OK . . . I don't think I understand what is being discussed anymore.

Someone got it in Trump's head that he should rattle his saber about Christians in Nigeria.  It's true that ISIS and Boko Haram have killed Christians and burned churches. They've also killed Muslim and burned schools, government offices, pretty much everything.  They are pretty much equal opportunity killers unless you are 100% Salafi Shari'a law fanatics, which is a definite minority position in Nigeria. 

Because Trump's knowledge of Nigeria is on the same level of his knowledge of epidemiology, climate science, and carrier plane launch systems, and because his advisors don't actually care about Nigeria, his apparent policy response is to randomly threaten the hapless Nigerian government, a target of ISIS-WA. Despite its many weaknesses, the Nigerian government is virtually the only body on the planet doing anything meaningful to counter those organizations.  There is no question that the US can influence the Nigerian government, but the Nigerian government is only a problem because of its weakness, not because it lacks interest.

Trump's other "plan" is reportedly to put US troops on the ground, apparently oblivious of the logistical complications. ISIS-WA operating areas are located in the far northeastern region of the country, near the borders of Chad and Niger. Not the easiest place to base and supply meaningful numbers of US military forces.

In the Sudan, the situation is quite different; a more conventional civil war between two roughly equally matched sides. And although both sides are pretty bad, the RSF has been committing worse and more systematic atrocities.  Here the potential leverage points are obvious, because the RSF cannot maintain 100K troops in the field without outside support, and the US does have the means to shut down much of that support if it wished and made it a priority. 

The third element in the discussion is Israel-Palestine.  I'm not sure how that is involved other than every discussion that does not devolve into the ACW must devolve to Israel-Palestine.  I think a point is being made about someone's hypocrisy.  Whatever that point is, let's consider it made and move on.

I have a simpler explanation. Laura Loomer has been tweeting about Nigeria for the past 2-3 weeks, for some reason. Then yesterday Trump talks about Nigeria for probably the first time in his life. That's about the level of US governance these days.

[Razgovory]

No, I think it's important we all understand why people are hypocritical, that is because they are evil racists, and that ostracize them for it.

That is not the only reason people are hypocritical IMO.

I think it is the main reason here.

[Admiral Yi]

Jacob, I would like to withdraw, or at least reformulate, my comment.

I too see the need for judicious hypocrisy.  At gay karaoke I'm often asked by customers if I liked their singing, or, less often if I think they're pretty.  I started out by trying to be truthful.  Now I just tell everyone they're awesome.

I still don't see how your maxim can be applied to Gaza though.

[The Minsky Moment]

I'm still confused.

The hypocrisy as I understand it is premised on the assumption that a genocide is being carried out against Christians in Nigeria just as it is claimed that Israel is carrying out a genocide in Gaza.  Assuming that premise is true, Trump is expressing outrage about the Nigerian genocide and threatening to use the miliary to annihilate the perpetrators.  He has not, however, expressed great outrage about Gaza genocide, nor has he threatened to use US military power to destroy to IDF.

Is that the hypocrisy or am I missing something?

[Razgovory]

I'm still confused.

The hypocrisy as I understand it is premised on the assumption that a genocide is being carried out against Christians in Nigeria just as it is claimed that Israel is carrying out a genocide in Gaza.  Assuming that premise is true, Trump is expressing outrage about the Nigerian genocide and threatening to use the miliary to annihilate the perpetrators.  He has not, however, expressed great outrage about Gaza genocide, nor has he threatened to use US military power to destroy to IDF.

Is that the hypocrisy or am I missing something?

I suppose you can throw Trump in there with the other racist hypocrites. 

[The Minsky Moment]

I suppose you can throw Trump in there with the other racist hypocrites.

To what end?
Name calling doesn't address the substance of the policy.\

After all, a hypocrite is often right about at least one of things they are saying; it's part of what makes them a hypocrite.

[Razgovory]

I suppose you can throw Trump in there with the other racist hypocrites.

To what end?
Name calling doesn't address the substance of the policy.\

After all, a hypocrite is often right about at least one of things they are saying; it's part of what makes them a hypocrite.

Name and shame.  Some of these people would stop being racist hypocrites if doing so got them labeled as racists.  And diminishing support for one position can change policy.

[Admiral Yi]

I think it is the main reason here.

You have posited a moral thesis.  Some people have engaged with your thesis and offered counter arguments.  I.e. Sudan is not in the news, Israel is part of the West, we only protest issues when there is a someone who disagrees with us, etc.  I really like the last one (shout out to Hillary).  Who's in favor of civil war in Sudan or Yemen?  Who are the good guys and who are the bad guys?  But you don't engage with these counter arguments.  You don't build a case to refute them, or concede them, or concede them with qualifications.  You haven't said anything new on the topic in a long, long time. Your argument has not evolved.  You just repeat your mantra.

This is why people get frustrated and annoyed with you.

Joan Minsky is an American Jew who has expressed concern about Israeli actions in Gaza and elsewhere.  By your logic he is an evil Jew hater.

[Razgovory]

I think it is the main reason here.

You have posited a moral thesis.  Some people have engaged with your thesis and offered counter arguments.  I.e. Sudan is not in the news, Israel is part of the West, we only protest issues when there is a someone who disagrees with us, etc.  I really like the last one (shout out to Hillary).  Who's in favor of civil war in Sudan or Yemen?  Who are the good guys and who are the bad guys?  But you don't engage with these counter arguments.  You don't build a case to refute them, or concede them, or concede them with qualifications.  You haven't said anything new on the topic in a long, long time. Your argument has not evolved.  You just repeat your mantra.

This is why people get frustrated and annoyed with you.

Joan Minsky is an American Jew who has expressed concern about Israeli actions in Gaza and elsewhere.  By your logic he is an evil Jew hater.

Sudan is in the news, obviously.  That's why we are talking about it.  I didn't say someone was in favor of a civil war, I am saying that people who define themselves as anti-genocide, don't care about civilians being massacred if they are not massacred by the Israelis.  This leads me to believe they don't actually care about Palestinians, they simply want to instrumentalize Palestinian suffering as way to destroy a hated country in the Middle East.  I believe that the majority of people, both in the West and the Middle East, (including Hamas!) would be fine with the conflict ending with only 10 Palestinians left alive if it meant zero Israelis are left. 

I think it is important to understand what this animus is about: It boils down to identity.

[Admiral Yi]

Sudan is in the news, obviously.  That's why we are talking about it.  I didn't say someone was in favor of a civil war, I am saying that people who define themselves as anti-genocide, don't care about civilians being massacred if they are not massacred by the Israelis.  This leads me to believe they don't actually care about Palestinians, they simply want to instrumentalize Palestinian suffering as way to destroy a hated country in the Middle East.  I believe that the majority of people, both in the West and the Middle East, (including Hamas!) would be fine with the conflict ending with only 10 Palestinians left alive if it meant zero Israelis are left.

I think it is important to understand what this animus is about: It boils down to identity.

I didn't say you said someone was in favor of civil war in Sudan and Yemen. 

I said people don't get worked up about it precisely because no one is in favor.

[HVC]

I think it is the main reason here.

You have posited a moral thesis.  Some people have engaged with your thesis and offered counter arguments.  I.e. Sudan is not in the news, Israel is part of the West, we only protest issues when there is a someone who disagrees with us, etc.  I really like the last one (shout out to Hillary). 

Joan Minsky is an American Jew who has expressed concern about Israeli actions in Gaza and elsewhere.  By your logic he is an evil Jew hater.

I tried the jew affiliation thing, doesnt help