Climate Change/Mass Extinction Megathread

[Legbiter]

It's very:

I don't recognize that meme. What is it?

[Sheilbh]

But both heating and air con work best in a pretty sealed system.
This is also how you keep heat in using other methods.
The best ways of cooling however tend to be about air flow and not being too sealed. Which doesn't fit together with air con.

But this is the point, isn't it? It also doesn't work for heating. We are building very well-insulated blocks of flats designed to keep the heat to improve energy efficiency in the winter and make the most out of heating systems. Therefore they are sealed and not big on airflow other rules around how far windows can open etc).

But this means in the summer when temperatures hit 30+ degrees we are slowly cooking the residents and strongly discourage the installation of air pump systems that can both heat and cool housing. As I say there have been protests in developments in London by current residents when there's "open days" visiting the flats where they're putting up signs in their windows telling people not to buy here because it's unlivably hot inside.

Maybe it's coming back to "Americans Pff" but as I say air con also conjures up super inefficient buildings where they don't even try and keep the cold air in.

Maybe - but I think the fact that it "conjures up" an image is exactly why I'd suggest it's primarily an aesthetic objection

I don't recognize that meme. What is it?

I don't think it's a meme or if it is I'm possibly the only person on the internet who uses it It's from Tinker Tailor Soldier Spy when Smiley's interrogating the mole whose reason for spying was aesthetic more than moral or political.

[Legbiter]

But this means in the summer when temperatures hit 30+ degrees we are slowly cooking the residents and strongly discourage the installation of air pump systems that can both heat and cool housing. As I say there have been protests in developments in London by current residents when there's "open days" visiting the flats where they're putting up signs in their windows telling people not to buy here because it's unlivably hot inside.

This would make perfect sense in Iceland if we had no geothermal heating. 

But our major problem is lava change.

[Tamas]

When I was researching this it turned out in many cases you only need planning permission for an AC external unit if you want to use it for cooling. If it's for heating only it's OK. Mental.

[Duque de Bragança]

I have learned to be...charitable.

Yet garbonites have much to learn, needing lot of charitable learning work and not just regarding wine. 

[HVC]

When I was researching this it turned out in many cases you only need planning permission for an AC external unit if you want to use it for cooling. If it's for heating only it's OK. Mental.

Can a dual purpose and lie?

[Duque de Bragança]

This is an odd European affliction though as a/c works perfectly fine in dry, windy, desert climates like that in southern California.

I'd suggest affectation rather than affliction given that the rest of the world generally seems capable of using it. The climate is changing Europe is suffering more and more severe heatwaves more regularly in which, across the continent, hundreds of people die every year - but we won't adopt AC for fundamentally aesthetic reasons. It's very:



And again I always think that literally no-one would respect any of these arguments if they were applied against central heating. I don't really get why heating = important, cooling = morally suspect/climate change denialist/American.

Also, you wet and windy island with Victorian plumbing, heating and insulation is hardly a reference for Mainland Europe.
Also, a crappy and unknown meme is only good for FB "debate" à la Syt's sister. 

Southern Europe had to deal with hot temperatures for a while now, and A/C is not the –only– answer.
As for temperate NorthWest Europe, common sense and some Southern European practices would be more than enough, specially since people over can't do A/C, for some reason :open windows all the time, max A/C when more than 25 °C, as in not really needed, not adjusting when temperature falls from the highs of 35-40 °C.
Plus, heatwave in heavily urbanised places such as city centres in NW Europe is a different beast than a hamlet or glorified village in the Americas.

[Duque de Bragança]

Problem with A/C in non-wet and windy Europe  is that it kills humidity and gives lots of sore throats. Not good for hospitals and the rest.
(Better) insulation and blinds persianas in Castilian and Portuguese, opened in the morning and at night and closed during the day would be a good start, Southern Europe has been doing that for a long time.

I'm telling you guys, the Icelandic glaciers peaked in 1890 and have been slowly shrinking ever since, the local temperature here almost hit 16° today. Doom is coming.

Seriously though since North-West Europe is going to hit the upper-temp bands more frequently, just buy those small AC units that will keep a room or 2 cozy for grandma and make sure large organizations like hospitals and old folks resisdences don't roast during regular weather.

Hospitals and old folks have different needs than your average bobo that can't stand heat and wants full A / C but yet claims to do something positive against climate change.
A/C installation and maintenance people are not that well paid, so things will have to change a lot, and that's unlikely.  Not to mention that more A/C will mean the next likely Covid-like pandemic will have more of an impact.

[HVC]

Depends which AC people. If you talking big units on public buildings like hospitals those are usually more complex industrial units, and at least in Ontario (and *maybe* all of Canada, but definitely in Ontario) they're unionized. I'd be surprised if that wasn't the case in union happy Europe too. Even for residential at lot of the techs here are unionized and very (VERY) well paid.

Also, why are you taking people being comfortable so personal old builds can be an issue, but new builds can be comfortable (ie AC ) and energy efficient. And in many cases even old builds can be renovated to be efficient.  This is France Olympics all over again where countries had to bring in their own, inefficient, systems to compensate for the planners stubbornness

*edit* As for disease transmissions, was there a notable difference between countries with an and with? Excluding weird anti vac places *cough* America  *cough*. Did Korea, Japan, or Canada have a noticeable spike?

[Duque de Bragança]

Trade-union happy Europe is a hell of generalisation. Some regions are, some others not, with the public and private sector wildy different in some cases (bonsoir la France). Ask Josq about trade union influence in the UK, since, say, Margaret Thatcher.

Not just for A / C people.

There is also the question of regulations regarding A / C ; regulations being a French specialty.
Namely hospitals, with the most stringent requirements, but then most hospitals around here already have some kind of A / C.

@HVC

In practical terms, did you or do you really need A / C in Nazaré (that's your place, right?) ?

[celedhring]

We are having a massive wildfire in the area close to the mouth of the Ebro river. There are reports that it has even detonated long-buried ordnance from the Civil War.

I'm still amazed when stuff like this happens (90 year old ordnance still being active, not wildfires, they are sadly common).

[HVC]

@HVC

In practical terms, did you or do you really need A / C in Nazaré (that's your place, right?) ?

It was a costal village with a costal breeze so for the most part no. Building was like 100 meters from the beach on a wide (for portugal ) street. It was also 20 to 40 years ago so I don't now whether that still holds lol. Now if I lived in the alentejo that answer would be different. Another aspect was the building was drafty and old. Consequently winter sucked. You'd wake up in dew basically. So bad for winter, good for summer. If I had stayed in a newer place sealed up for more efficiency in winter my answer might have changed then too.

[Duque de Bragança]

@HVC

In practical terms, did you or do you really need A / C in Nazaré (that's your place, right?) ?

It was a costal village with a costal breeze so for the most part no. Building was like 100 meters from the beach on a wide (for portugal ) street. It was also 20 to 40 years ago so I don't now whether that still holds lol. Now if I lived in the alentejo that answer would be different. Another aspect was the building was drafty and old. Consequently winter sucked. You'd wake up in dew basically. So bad for winter, good for summer. If I had stayed in a newer place sealed up for more efficiency in winter my answer might have changed then too.

That's what I thought. Alentejo is used to extreme heat though; white painted houses, insulation and the like. Insulation works both ways, against heat and cold. Speaking of which...
The South, not just Alentejo, used to get in trouble in winter, even if short and mild, because heating used to be mostly optional, south of the Mondego.
Up North, central heating is extremely valued, but pricey so other heating systems exidt, whereas A/C is used maybe for hospitals and some businesses. Not counting cold meat storage and other industries which rely on cold.