Quo Vadis, Democrats?

[Oexmelin]

You seem to be ascribing a position to me that is entirely fictitious; you seem to be reading protests as existing only in binary form; your use of pussy war suggests a caricature; it seems to have nothing to do with what I was saying. 

And just so we're clear: I am posting tersely because, as I have told you before, I find your mode of engagement unfair to your interlocutor.

[Admiral Yi]

Perhaps we should abort.

[Oexmelin]

Your call.

My point was: keep things in perspective. In the face of what is happening, a couple of cars destroyed should not matter much. The current situation requires mobilization.

Your point seems to be: current protests are romantic cosplay bullshit if people aren't putting their lives on the line.

For what it's worth, I am genuinely interested in having that conversation. I just want it to be a conversation. I don't want to be the one writing a wall of text articulating my position with you writing one line asking me to clarify this or that point which you think is the weak point of my view. I know this is your modus operandi, but I don't think it makes for a fair exchange.

[The Minsky Moment]

There's always going to be idiots at demonstration doing idiot things, left, right, whatever.  Whatever fringe group of idiots that is burning Waymos is in no danger of capturing any public authority in the US. 

The most powerful public authority in the US OTOH, is burning down the Constitution and the rights of the people with it, a matter rather more consequential than a few cars in LA, with all due apologies to the limited members of Waymo, LLC.

I haven't seen a substantive response to Oex's point above, and I don't think there is one.

[Razgovory]

There's always going to be idiots at demonstration doing idiot things, left, right, whatever.  Whatever fringe group of idiots that is burning Waymos is in no danger of capturing any public authority in the US. 

The most powerful public authority in the US OTOH, is burning down the Constitution and the rights of the people with it, a matter rather more consequential than a few cars in LA, with all due apologies to the limited members of Waymo, LLC.

I haven't seen a substantive response to Oex's point above, and I don't think there is one.

Fringe idiots attacking the capital did fairly well.

[grumbler]

There's always going to be idiots at demonstration doing idiot things, left, right, whatever.  Whatever fringe group of idiots that is burning Waymos is in no danger of capturing any public authority in the US. 

The most powerful public authority in the US OTOH, is burning down the Constitution and the rights of the people with it, a matter rather more consequential than a few cars in LA, with all due apologies to the limited members of Waymo, LLC.

I haven't seen a substantive response to Oex's point above, and I don't think there is one.

I don't agree that the only two choices are
(1) to accept that it is unacceptable to criticize edgelords for being edgelords, or
(2) accept the Trump administration's power grabs and wanton cruelty.

For instance, I reject both the edgelords and the usurpation of power, and feel no cognitive dissonance whatsoever.  Maybe that isn't a "substantive response to Oex's point," but I reject his premise and so cannot really respond to the argument that follows the premise.

[Valmy]

Yeah, some asshole set a bunch of Jews on fire.  We had the assassination of two members of a two Israeli diplomatic staff and an attempt to burn down governor's mansion in Pennsylvanian while the governor was celebrating Passover.  Your friends burning cars, Unity of Fields, previously known as Palestine Action, are quite happy with this.

I'm getting the impression that the assassination of the Democratic legislature is bad is not because murder is bad but the assassin targeted the wrong type of people.

 

Violence is bad. Destruction of property is bad. Both because it is morally wrong, but also because it is strategically bad and politically counter-productive.

Like Talleyrand said: it is worse than a crime, it is a mistake.

But considering how many millions of people were protesting it seemed like there was basically none of this kind of thing. Not sure why this is being discussed frankly.

Fringe idiots attacking the capital did fairly well.

That is different. They are right wing. They can do that sort of thing and get away with it. Hitler can coup the government and get a slap on the wrist, if Karl Liebknecht does it his ass is going to be shot.

[The Minsky Moment]

Fringe idiots attacking the capital did fairly well.

Do I really need to point the differences?

[crazy canuck]

There's always going to be idiots at demonstration doing idiot things, left, right, whatever.  Whatever fringe group of idiots that is burning Waymos is in no danger of capturing any public authority in the US. 

The most powerful public authority in the US OTOH, is burning down the Constitution and the rights of the people with it, a matter rather more consequential than a few cars in LA, with all due apologies to the limited members of Waymo, LLC.

I haven't seen a substantive response to Oex's point above, and I don't think there is one.

I don't agree that the only two choices are
(1) to accept that it is unacceptable to criticize edgelords for being edgelords, or
(2) accept the Trump administration's power grabs and wanton cruelty.

For instance, I reject both the edgelords and the usurpation of power, and feel no cognitive dissonance whatsoever.  Maybe that isn't a "substantive response to Oex's point," but I reject his premise and so cannot really respond to the argument that follows the premise.

You are not rejecting Oex's premise.  You are rejecting Yi's superficial characterization.

[The Minsky Moment]

Right, we aren't saying liberals shouldn't criticize vandalism.  It's just that the obsessive focus on a few ruined autonomous taxis seems out of proportion in a context where the head of DHS is openly boasting about using federal military force to overthrow and discipline America's largest state government, while exerting shocking levels of violence, brutality, and deprivation of the civil rights of citizens and non-citizens alike, all for the purpose of scoring political points with their "base".

So sure this guy here burned those 3 trees, but then there's the fact that Trump and Noem are napalming the entire forest.

[Admiral Yi]

Right, we aren't saying liberals shouldn't criticize vandalism.  It's just that the obsessive focus on a few ruined autonomous taxis seems out of proportion in a context where the head of DHS is openly boasting about using federal military force to overthrow and discipline America's largest state government, while exerting shocking levels of violence, brutality, and deprivation of the civil rights of citizens and non-citizens alike, all for the purpose of scoring political points with their "base".

So sure this guy here burned those 3 trees, but then there's the fact that Trump and Noem are napalming the entire forest.

The waymo subject started with Hillary posting with what I thought was a very innocuous post directed at Zoupa's indifference to (or support of) burning cars.  Zoupa and garbon said in effect the opposite of what you did.  Their position is in effect liberals shouldn't criticize vandalism. Your position is criticism of destruction of property is fine is long as it's not done obsessively.  Was Hillary demonstrating an obsession with car burning?

[Jacob]

I don't think Hillary is the person coming across as obsessive about car burning, no.

[The Minsky Moment]

I think collectively, for whatever reason, we right here have spent a lot more time discussing attacks on drone taxis than the assaults on our fellow human beings in LA by the US federal government.  And that's not the appropriate proportionality of attention.

[grumbler]

Right, we aren't saying liberals shouldn't criticize vandalism.  It's just that the obsessive focus on a few ruined autonomous taxis seems out of proportion in a context where the head of DHS is openly boasting about using federal military force to overthrow and discipline America's largest state government, while exerting shocking levels of violence, brutality, and deprivation of the civil rights of citizens and non-citizens alike, all for the purpose of scoring political points with their "base".

So sure this guy here burned those 3 trees, but then there's the fact that Trump and Noem are napalming the entire forest.

I'm not seeing this "obsessive focus on a few ruined autonomous taxis" to which you refer.  Where are you seeing it?

[grumbler]

Whoever came up with "No Kings" as the rallying cry for the protests this last weekend deserves a medal.