What does a TRUMP presidency look like?

[Razgovory]

Canada will reach it's goal of spending 2% on defense in 2030.  At this rate it will get on war footing to oppose the US by 2172.

Going full trumpian huh? Took a bit but you got there. Congrats i guess.

We have complained about NATO military spending for 20 years, it didn't start with Trump.

Any comment on the 800 billion Euro defense plan by the EU?

I'm not holding my breath.

[Threviel]

EU countries spend about €326 billion and that's 1.9% of GDP.

The US spends about $842 billion and that's about 3.4%.

EU needs to spend more than the US yearly for decades to replace the security that the US gave us. €800 billion is a lot of money, but it's also very little money in this context.

[Valmy]

Canada will reach it's goal of spending 2% on defense in 2030.  At this rate it will get on war footing to oppose the US by 2172.

Going full trumpian huh? Took a bit but you got there. Congrats i guess.

We have complained about NATO military spending for 20 years, it didn't start with Trump.

Any comment on the 800 billion Euro defense plan by the EU?

I'm not holding my breath.

If it happened what would be your response?

[The Brain]

EU countries spend about €326 billion and that's 1.9% of GDP.

The US spends about $842 billion and that's about 3.4%.

EU needs to spend more than the US yearly for decades to replace the security that the US gave us. €800 billion is a lot of money, but it's also very little money in this context.

Spend smarter, not harder. I'm confident that we are and can be more efficient than the US Department of Defense. They are famously inefficient (and their focus is on deleting pics of Enola Gay because reasons).

[DGuller]

EU countries spend about €326 billion and that's 1.9% of GDP.

The US spends about $842 billion and that's about 3.4%.

EU needs to spend more than the US yearly for decades to replace the security that the US gave us. €800 billion is a lot of money, but it's also very little money in this context.

Spend smarter, not harder. I'm confident that we are and can be more efficient than the US Department of Defense. They are famously inefficient (and their focus is on deleting pics of Enola Gay because reasons).

The good thing DoD has going for it is that it belongs to a single country, not 20+ of them.  Even if all these European countries manage to be more efficient, which is always easier to aspire to than to accomplish, there must be a lot of waste just due to fragmentation of EU.

[The Brain]

EU countries spend about €326 billion and that's 1.9% of GDP.

The US spends about $842 billion and that's about 3.4%.

EU needs to spend more than the US yearly for decades to replace the security that the US gave us. €800 billion is a lot of money, but it's also very little money in this context.

Spend smarter, not harder. I'm confident that we are and can be more efficient than the US Department of Defense. They are famously inefficient (and their focus is on deleting pics of Enola Gay because reasons).

The good thing DoD has going for it is that it belongs to a single country, not 20+ of them.  Even if all these European countries manage to be more efficient, which is always easier to aspire to than to accomplish, there must be a lot of waste just due to fragmentation of EU.

Possibly. It's not always the case that 20+ individual organizations deliver less efficiently than a single lumbering behemoth.

[DGuller]

In any case, I hope you guys give it your best shot, and I hope you'll succeed.  The civilized world depends on you getting it right.

[Iormlund]

The good thing DoD has going for it is that it belongs to a single country, not 20+ of them.  Even if all these European countries manage to be more efficient, which is always easier to aspire to than to accomplish, there must be a lot of waste just due to fragmentation of EU.

Indeed.

A big part of that is our military industrial complex is constantly fighting for scraps. But now there should be more than enough meat for everyone to feast on.
So if we can figure out a common procurement system, we can distribute all incoming orders in a less inefficient manner.

First order of business should be to hand some F35s to Saab, Dassault and EADS to reverse engineer.

[The Brain]

Non-nuke European countries developing nukes is being discussed openly now in media. Just a few weeks ago this would have been a taboo subject in Sweden.

[Iormlund]

The ones that actually need nukes are the Baltics, though.

Nukes won't help if Putin thinks Paris, London or whoever will flinch.

[The Brain]

The ones that actually need nukes are the Baltics, though.

Nukes won't help if Putin thinks Paris, London or whoever will flinch.

The idea of a Nordic nuke union has been put forward. Including the Baltics would make sense.

[Tamas]

BTW I feel like nukes are proving to be similar to dreadnoughts but I don't mean this as a positive.

So far Russia has threatened their use almost weekly but not even the Kursk incursion made them actually do so.

On the other hand... Let's say this Baltics nuke union is confirmed and announced and Russia decides to preemptively carpet-bike the Norwich countries. Can we honestly say that the US would trigger the destruction of human civilisation by doing a counter strike? Or that Europe would trigger the collapse of European civilisation by retaliating? Even without the orange dementor in the White House I doubt people would have the stomach for it.

What I am getting at is that MAD I think is actually much harder to trigger in practice than it was assumed on paper. But that can also mean that nukes might become a standard weapon of war. Especially if Russia and the US form a fascist alliance.

[The Brain]

BTW I feel like nukes are proving to be similar to dreadnoughts but I don't mean this as a positive.

So far Russia has threatened their use almost weekly but not even the Kursk incursion made them actually do so.

On the other hand... Let's say this Baltics nuke union is confirmed and announced and Russia decides to preemptively carpet-bike the Norwich countries. Can we honestly say that the US would trigger the destruction of human civilisation by doing a counter strike? Or that Europe would trigger the collapse of European civilisation by retaliating? Even without the orange dementor in the White House I doubt people would have the stomach for it.

What I am getting at is that MAD I think is actually much harder to trigger in practice than it was assumed on paper. But that can also mean that nukes might become a standard weapon of war. Especially if Russia and the US form a fascist alliance.

While death by mongers sounds horrible, short term we will have to hope that France defends European Nato.

[Razgovory]

Canada will reach it's goal of spending 2% on defense in 2030.  At this rate it will get on war footing to oppose the US by 2172.

Going full trumpian huh? Took a bit but you got there. Congrats i guess.

We have complained about NATO military spending for 20 years, it didn't start with Trump.

Any comment on the 800 billion Euro defense plan by the EU?

I'm not holding my breath.

If it happened what would be your response?

I would be  pleasantly surprised.  It would be a good start.

[mongers]

BTW I feel like nukes are proving to be similar to dreadnoughts but I don't mean this as a positive.

So far Russia has threatened their use almost weekly but not even the Kursk incursion made them actually do so.

On the other hand... Let's say this Baltics nuke union is confirmed and announced and Russia decides to preemptively carpet-bike the Norwich countries. Can we honestly say that the US would trigger the destruction of human civilisation by doing a counter strike? Or that Europe would trigger the collapse of European civilisation by retaliating? Even without the orange dementor in the White House I doubt people would have the stomach for it.

What I am getting at is that MAD I think is actually much harder to trigger in practice than it was assumed on paper. But that can also mean that nukes might become a standard weapon of war. Especially if Russia and the US form a fascist alliance.

While death by mongers sounds horrible, short term we will have to hope that France defends European Nato.

 

edit:
also why does he think Norwich is like Sweden et al.