Israel-Hamas War 2023

[Razgovory]

Your quote undermines your argument.  The money was aid, but it really went to Hamas.  Obviously, the Israelis shouldn't have let the aid in.  But that leads us to a pickle, Gaza needs money to rebuild but the money will go to Hamas.

I bolded the part that had nothing to do with aid, for your benefit.  Please go back and re-read it.

It's a little light on details...  For all we know the other avenues of funding Hamas were also disguised as aid.

[Crazy_Ivan80]

The chances of Syria succeeding are very low. The chances of Syria becoming a talibnesque hellhole are close to certain

Early reports out of Syria seem to be positive - and certainly much better than under Assad.

early reports ignore the fact that the rulers of Syria are islamofascist fanatics.

And you are ignoring the fact that at least in these early days the Syrians are not acting like Fascists.

Point is they are. You just don't want to see. Idlib is the benchmark

[crazy canuck]

Your quote undermines your argument.  The money was aid, but it really went to Hamas.  Obviously, the Israelis shouldn't have let the aid in.  But that leads us to a pickle, Gaza needs money to rebuild but the money will go to Hamas.

I bolded the part that had nothing to do with aid, for your benefit.  Please go back and re-read it.

It's a little light on details...  For all we know the other avenues of funding Hamas were also disguised as aid.

Why would someone make the point that there are separate avenues used apart from aid, if they meant aid?

And the details are in the rest of the article I linked for you.  If you want to believe there was only aid money being sent, despite the fact the Israeli intelligence thought otherwise, then there is not much more I can do for you.

[Razgovory]

Fascism seems to be intrinsic to identify.  If you ban the teacher of evolution in the US, it is an example of Christian nationalist fascism.  In Syria, it's not even remotely fascism.

[Razgovory]

Your quote undermines your argument.  The money was aid, but it really went to Hamas.  Obviously, the Israelis shouldn't have let the aid in.  But that leads us to a pickle, Gaza needs money to rebuild but the money will go to Hamas.

I bolded the part that had nothing to do with aid, for your benefit.  Please go back and re-read it.

It's a little light on details...  For all we know the other avenues of funding Hamas were also disguised as aid.

Why would someone make the point that there are separate avenues used apart from aid, if they meant aid?

And the details are in the rest of the article I linked for you.  If you want to believe there was only aid money being sent, despite the fact the Israeli intelligence thought otherwise, then there is not much more I can do for you.

Different forms of aid would be different avenues.  I don't think there was any occasions where the Qatari sent money explicitly for raping women or allocated funds for kidnapping children.  All the money going to Hamas is going to be disguised as civilian aid.  We also both know that any aid that goes to Gaza will go through Hamas and would be used to fund the rebuilding of it's military.  The question is, what to do about it.  Should the Israelis have a veto on what money goes through? 

[crazy canuck]

Your quote undermines your argument.  The money was aid, but it really went to Hamas.  Obviously, the Israelis shouldn't have let the aid in.  But that leads us to a pickle, Gaza needs money to rebuild but the money will go to Hamas.

I bolded the part that had nothing to do with aid, for your benefit.  Please go back and re-read it.

It's a little light on details...  For all we know the other avenues of funding Hamas were also disguised as aid.

Why would someone make the point that there are separate avenues used apart from aid, if they meant aid?

And the details are in the rest of the article I linked for you.  If you want to believe there was only aid money being sent, despite the fact the Israeli intelligence thought otherwise, then there is not much more I can do for you.

Different forms of aid would be different avenues.  I don't think there was any occasions where the Qatari sent money explicitly for raping women or allocated funds for kidnapping children.  All the money going to Hamas is going to be disguised as civilian aid.  We also both know that any aid that goes to Gaza will go through Hamas and would be used to fund the rebuilding of it's military.  The question is, what to do about it.  Should the Israelis have a veto on what money goes through?

The article specifically mentions that Qatar aid went directly to the military wing of Hamas.  The Israelis knew it, but turned a blind eye to it on the theory that it was better to destabilize the Palestinian Authority than reduce the harm Hamas might one day do.

[Razgovory]

Yet it was not earmarked for Hamas.  The Qataris said they were giving it to pay civil service and the like.  They were lying of course, and the Israeli had a reasonable suspicion that the Qataris were lying.  They would have a reasonable suspicion that any aid going to Gaza would go directly to Hamas or that Hamas would get it.  From your quote

But Israeli intelligence officials now believe that the money had a role in the success of the Oct. 7 attacks, if only because the donations allowed Hamas to divert some of its own budget toward military operations.

That can be applied to any aid that goes into Gaza.  The question, which you have so far avoided, is how to prevent that from happening.

[crazy canuck]

Yet it was not earmarked for Hamas.

I prefer to rely on Israeli intelligence who says otherwise.

[Baron von Schtinkenbutt]

Yet it was not earmarked for Hamas.  The Qataris said they were giving it to pay civil service and the like.  They were lying of course, and the Israeli had a reasonable suspicion that the Qataris were lying.  They would have a reasonable suspicion that any aid going to Gaza would go directly to Hamas or that Hamas would get it.  From your quote

But Israeli intelligence officials now believe that the money had a role in the success of the Oct. 7 attacks, if only because the donations allowed Hamas to divert some of its own budget toward military operations.

Why are you so convinced that

The money from Qatar had humanitarian goals like paying government salaries in Gaza and buying fuel to keep a power plant running. But Israeli intelligence officials now believe that the money had a role in the success of the Oct. 7 attacks, if only because the donations allowed Hamas to divert some of its own budget toward military operations.

and

Separately, Israeli intelligence has long assessed that Qatar uses other channels to secretly fund Hamas' military wing, an accusation that Qatar's government has denied.

both refer to aid streams?  I think it's clear from the quoted passage that Hamas was both skimming aid money sent by the Qataris and getting secret, direct payments to fund their military wing.  Not secretly diverting aid payments the Qataris lied about the purpose of, but payments the Qataris denied existed entirely.

That can be applied to any aid that goes into Gaza.  The question, which you have so far avoided, is how to prevent that from happening.

That can be applied to any aid which goes into Gaza so long as Hamas have de facto control of Gaza.  Sure, they can probably find ways to skim small amounts even if they're driven underground again, but the only reason they were able to divert so much aid to rearming is because they were allowed to control Gaza for 16 years and Israel was content to let them sit there.  Oh, and the Qataris dumping fat stacks on them covertly.

[Barrister]

The chances of Syria succeeding are very low. The chances of Syria becoming a talibnesque hellhole are close to certain

Early reports out of Syria seem to be positive - and certainly much better than under Assad.

early reports ignore the fact that the rulers of Syria are islamofascist fanatics.

Don't make the perfect the enemy of the good.

You're not going to get some moderate secular liberal out of winning a brutal civil war (besides - Assad has the secularist in that war).  And interim leader al-Sharaa has a history with al Quaeda, but broke ties with the group years ago and seems focused more on much more basic governance issues rather than violent jihad.

As I said - very early days.  We'll see how things shake out.  But the early signs are much more promising than I would have thought.

[Razgovory]

Yet it was not earmarked for Hamas.

I prefer to rely on Israeli intelligence who says otherwise.

Dude, the official purpose was for civil 

Yet it was not earmarked for Hamas.  The Qataris said they were giving it to pay civil service and the like.  They were lying of course, and the Israeli had a reasonable suspicion that the Qataris were lying.  They would have a reasonable suspicion that any aid going to Gaza would go directly to Hamas or that Hamas would get it.  From your quote

But Israeli intelligence officials now believe that the money had a role in the success of the Oct. 7 attacks, if only because the donations allowed Hamas to divert some of its own budget toward military operations.

Why are you so convinced that

I am not absolutely convinced that all Qatari support for Hamas was through aid, but it is a reasonable assumption.  Qatar gave Hamas money but said that it was for just for paying wages and construction.  The Israeli didn't believe them, but allowed the money in anyway.  That means it was still aid, aid that was for civil purposes, but ended up going to Hamas.  The Israelis have fought several wars against Hamas in Gaza, so they are hardly "letting" Hamas stay in Gaza.  We just saw the end of a 14 month war that failed to dislodge Hamas.  Presumably when Hamas starts attacking Israel again it will be Israel's fault because they allowed Hamas to stay in Gaza and allowed money to go to Hamas disguised as aid.

There is no way for Israel to be right.  If they fight Hamas it is genocide, if they don't fight Hamas and allow aid in they are propping up Hamas so they have an excuse to commit genocide in the future.

[viper37]

Gaza ceasefire to be cancelled by Saturday unless Hamas releases all hostages.

Raz and Otto are dancing with joy.

No one will be left alive, Gaza Trump tower to be soon announced as a joint Likud-Republican venture.