Israel-Hamas War 2023

[Jacob]

I think minorities in America would love the privilege to not be demeaned or threatened for their identities.

Yeah no doubt.

[Neil]

I didn't describe Palestine as an ethnostate at all.  They're not a state.

Forcing people to move the ethnostate that they wanted to live in

Who was it?

Germans. 

[Razgovory]

So, one of the things I heard quite a bit for the last year and half is that Israel supported Hamas by allowing funds to go into Gaza for construction.  Does anyone have an ideas how to keep reconstruction funds from getting to Hamas?  And if not, does that mean that Israel should allow no funds for reconstruction to go to Gaza?

[Valmy]

So, one of the things I heard quite a bit for the last year and half is that Israel supported Hamas by allowing funds to go into Gaza for construction.  Does anyone have an ideas how to keep reconstruction funds from getting to Hamas?  And if not, does that mean that Israel should allow no funds for reconstruction to go to Gaza?

I thought the idea was that the Israelis helped Hamas by opposing Fatah's attempts to oust Hamas and retake control in Gaza, thus keeping the Palestinians divided. So maybe the idea is something like ensuring all support for the Palestinians and Gaza goes to non-Hamas Palstinian groups in order to starve them of resources and limit their legitimacy and control.

[Tamas]

The solution is for Israel to let Fatah take Gaza back, and then preventing Hamas defeating them again, but not by military force or economic coercion or political influence or by doing anything, really.

Easy.

[Valmy]

The solution is for Israel to let Fatah take Gaza back, and then preventing Hamas defeating them again, but not by military force or economic coercion or political influence or by doing anything, really.

Easy.

I think the opportunity for that to happen has long since passed. I just think when people talk about Israel helping Hamas, they are talking about something that already happened a decade or more ago.

[crazy canuck]

The solution is for Israel to let Fatah take Gaza back, and then preventing Hamas defeating them again, but not by military force or economic coercion or political influence or by doing anything, really.

Easy.

I think the opportunity for that to happen has long since passed. I just think when people talk about Israel helping Hamas, they are talking about something that already happened a decade or more ago.

Yeah, that should have been the strategy the first go round. Now a different strategy will be required.

[Razgovory]

So, one of the things I heard quite a bit for the last year and half is that Israel supported Hamas by allowing funds to go into Gaza for construction.  Does anyone have an ideas how to keep reconstruction funds from getting to Hamas?  And if not, does that mean that Israel should allow no funds for reconstruction to go to Gaza?

I thought the idea was that the Israelis helped Hamas by opposing Fatah's attempts to oust Hamas and retake control in Gaza, thus keeping the Palestinians divided. So maybe the idea is something like ensuring all support for the Palestinians and Gaza goes to non-Hamas Palstinian groups in order to starve them of resources and limit their legitimacy and control.

The most common one I've seen is that Israel helped Hamas by allowing funding from Qatar.  It's been brought up in this thread a few times.  Since allowing funding in is bad, what do we do?

[Valmy]

The most common one I've seen is that Israel helped Hamas by allowing funding from Qatar.  It's been brought up in this thread a few times.  Since allowing funding in is bad, what do we do?

I don't know man. The situation seems too far gone to be salvaged in an acceptable way. Which is why I wish we would stop being involved until a way forward presents itself.

[crazy canuck]

So, one of the things I heard quite a bit for the last year and half is that Israel supported Hamas by allowing funds to go into Gaza for construction.  Does anyone have an ideas how to keep reconstruction funds from getting to Hamas?  And if not, does that mean that Israel should allow no funds for reconstruction to go to Gaza?

I thought the idea was that the Israelis helped Hamas by opposing Fatah's attempts to oust Hamas and retake control in Gaza, thus keeping the Palestinians divided. So maybe the idea is something like ensuring all support for the Palestinians and Gaza goes to non-Hamas Palstinian groups in order to starve them of resources and limit their legitimacy and control.

The most common one I've seen is that Israel helped Hamas by allowing funding from Qatar.  It's been brought up in this thread a few times.  Since allowing funding in is bad, what do we do?

You misunderstood the point being made if you thought it was that funding aid relief was bad.

[Razgovory]

The most common one I've seen is that Israel helped Hamas by allowing funding from Qatar.  It's been brought up in this thread a few times.  Since allowing funding in is bad, what do we do?

I don't know man. The situation seems too far gone to be salvaged in an acceptable way. Which is why I wish we would stop being involved until a way forward presents itself.

I really don't think another Arab-Israeli war is desirable, because if we go hands off that is what will likely happen.

[Valmy]

I really don't think another Arab-Israeli war is desirable, because if we go hands off that is what will likely happen.

Only if by going "hands off" means the United States just stops existing. The understanding that we would aid Israel if they are in existential danger would remain.

But we don't need to be sending regular money to Egypt, the PLA, and Israel trying to keep them all playing nice. Because, you know, they aren't. It isn't working. And Israel shouldn't need our money just to keep Hamas and that rabble in line.

[Razgovory]

So, one of the things I heard quite a bit for the last year and half is that Israel supported Hamas by allowing funds to go into Gaza for construction.  Does anyone have an ideas how to keep reconstruction funds from getting to Hamas?  And if not, does that mean that Israel should allow no funds for reconstruction to go to Gaza?

I thought the idea was that the Israelis helped Hamas by opposing Fatah's attempts to oust Hamas and retake control in Gaza, thus keeping the Palestinians divided. So maybe the idea is something like ensuring all support for the Palestinians and Gaza goes to non-Hamas Palstinian groups in order to starve them of resources and limit their legitimacy and control.

The most common one I've seen is that Israel helped Hamas by allowing funding from Qatar.  It's been brought up in this thread a few times.  Since allowing funding in is bad, what do we do?

You misunderstood the point being made if you thought it was that funding aid relief was bad.

No, the point was that Israel brought it on themselves.  The Mossad created Hamas, Netanyahu allowed Hamas to attack, etc.  Since these arguments tended to turn on allowing funding into Gaza that Hamas could siphon off, that is, all funding going to Gaza, any funding going to Gaza will be pointed too in the future as Israel funding Hamas.

[Razgovory]

I really don't think another Arab-Israeli war is desirable, because if we go hands off that is what will likely happen.

Only if by going "hands off" means the United States just stops existing. The understanding that we would aid Israel if they are in existential danger would remain.

But we don't need to be sending regular money to Egypt, the PLA, and Israel trying to keep them all playing nice. Because, you know, they aren't. It isn't working. And Israel shouldn't need our money just to keep Hamas and that rabble in line.

They play nice compared to 1973 and 1967!  We give them money as part of a peace deal, so they wouldn't drag unto into WW3.

[Valmy]

No, the point was that Israel brought it on themselves.

I thought the point was that Israel had a cynical strategy to divide and weaken the Palestinians. Sure it involved empowering Hamas, who are dangerous. But ultimately this strategy has worked hasn't it? The Palestinians are divided, they are weaker than ever, and the chances of a two state solution with a Palestinian state is all but dead. From where I sit, Palestine seems on the path to oblivion and Israel will win.

Hamas will get a few licks in, but it seems to be working...if the plan is for Israel to take over the whole area.