What does a TRUMP presidency look like?

[garbon]

True, in high school I basically learned the US was one of the most terrible countries.

Ok well I wasn't there.

I am highly skeptical that what the curriculum was designed around that though. Besides I seem to recall you had a much higher opinion of the country and conservative values when you first joined Languish. It was only later you decided to flee the country.

I don't think it was the curriculum so much as how the teachers decided to talk about it all. Left me generally jaded but also skeptical of what I'd been hearing.

And I didn't flee the country, I wanted to be able to travel and from UK cheaper and a reasonable amount of leave.

[Admiral Yi]

Why do you want that, Yi?

Because it's counterproductive.  It loses votes.

[Razgovory]

Yeah, me too.  You'd think the rest of the world would be arming against us or something.

So if I look up the curriculum for the State of Missouri from your time there, it will be an indoctrination scheme on how to get you to hate America? I don't know man. I am skeptical you are remembering this correctly.

But I wasn't there.

The texts books we had focused on all the terrible things, almost to the exclusion of everything else.  This was in contrast to the Utopian paradise of the Native Americans that was stomped out of existence by the American government. I know some parents complained.

[grumbler]

But the US imports a lot of oil for domestic consumption.  I do not know about natural gaz, I suspect you are quite independent there.  But oil, no. For October 2024 (last available data), you imported 200 000 crude oil barrels per month, you exported 120 crude oil barrels per month.
https://www.eia.gov/dnav/pet/hist/LeafHandler.ashx?n=pet&s=mcrimus1&f=m
https://www.eia.gov/dnav/pet/hist/LeafHandler.ashx?n=pet&s=mcrexus1&f=m

No matter when you look, you always import more than your export.

The US imports more crude oil that it exports, because the US has a lot of refining capability. Your own sources shows that the US exports a net of about 10 million barrels of POL per month.

[viper37]

Conservatives are not a monolithic bunch (and for that matter Trump isn't much of a conservative anyways).

No he isn't a conservative, fiscal or otherwise.  He isn't religious at all, he has refused to swear on the Bible.

Yet, he has the support of fiscal conservative despite his massive deficits, he has the support of moral conservatives despites being amoral, he has the support of religiouse zealots despite his lack of religious convictions.

It really does not matter at all if he is something himself or not. His supporters believe him to be the Messiah.  I'm certain within 99,5% confidence that you don't believe it, but it's totally irrevelent.
Just as it was irrevelent what we think of Hamas current leader divine mission.  It's what his followers believe.

[Grey Fox]

Why do you want that, Yi?

Because it's counterproductive.  It loses votes.

Interesting point.

[Valmy]

What are actions you're taking towards that end?

Trying to get Democrats to shut up.

Definitely would've been a better strategy for them in the summer of 2020, or from October 2023 on.

Ok but we are talking about two different things here.

Or are we? Are we saying Democratic politicians need to shut up or just anybody who wants to protest anything in general should not protest?

[viper37]

Why do you want that, Yi?

Because it's counterproductive.  It loses votes.

You could have said the same thing about the Republican strategy a dozen years ago.  Or even farther then that.

It did lose them votes initially.  It was counter-productive to rant against gays, and blacks and immigrants, and Democrats being the enemy, all these people being worst from the inside than anyone from outside.

We all had a good laugh at the crazies from the Tea Party.

Where's the Tea Party now?


I think Oex was right that Dems needed to rebuild their base and work at grassroot movements, something they neglected.

[Barrister]

BB:

I know you are anti-Trump. I believe you. My point is that being anti-Trump isn't simply being against the specific individual Donald Trump. It's about recognizing that we are in a political moment that goes beyond Trump.  Things which, in previous times, could be up for a rational debate ("Is it good that national history high school programmes foster a sense of community?") can no longer be treated as such. To treat them as if the rest didn't exist is missing the forest for the tree.

Of course they can!

I have two separate replies.  They're both different, but couldn't decide which was better, so you get a two-fer.

1.

This is what "flood the zone with shit" means.  If everything is a crisis, if you put your hair on fire about everything, then nothing is a crisis.  We need to be able to single out what are the truly most outrageous, most truly dangerous, things Trump is doing - and focus on those.

We're going through Trump's cabinet appointments now.  So very many of them are wildly inappropriate.  But you have to focus.  As terrible as I think, say, RFK Jr is - I think Tulsi Gabbard is orders of magnitude worse due to the credible concerns she's influenced by foreign powers.


2.

Let's take the trans issue, since Trump apparently made a big deal of it in his final ads.  But you could go with so many other culture issues.

I think fairly reasonable people can go "you know, I'm worried it's much too easy for youths to medically transition which will have irrevocable side effects".  Someone like JK Rowling made similar complaints.

The left would go "Transphobe! TERF!  Don't you know what time it is!".

I think such objections did a noticeable amount of damage in driving people with otherwise reasonable views, or at least mostly reasonable views on most issues, into the arms of the Trumpian-right.

Let me ask you - do you think telling me that my opinions on the value of a patriotic education 'are not up for a rational debate' is going to convince me of the errors of my ways?  Or cause me to tune you out?

Just to be clear - Fuck Trump.  Fuck that guy.  But I know what I believe in.  Those beliefs cause me to say "Fuck Trump".  But don't expect the "Fuck Trump" belief to just wash away everything else.

[Neil]

I liked the second.

[viper37]

We're going through Trump's cabinet appointments now.  So very many of them are wildly inappropriate.  But you have to focus.  As terrible as I think, say, RFK Jr is - I think Tulsi Gabbard is orders of magnitude worse due to the credible concerns she's influenced by foreign powers.

I think both are awful.

We are on the eve of a new pandemic and RFK Jr will create a lot of damage.  Not even counting the years of research lost by these new idiotic policies.  China is smiling.  They're not stopping their own research.  They've already closed the gap on climate policy & science because many of us were slacking of and they're competing with us much more on a equal footing at the industrial level.  Slave labor and intellectual property theft is an added perk but less of a necesity than it was.   Besides, stealing the thieve (OpenAI) made me smile a bit, I have to confess.

[DGuller]

I like both.  I also think that not engaging in a debate is precisely the wrong thing to do for the left,  because we need a lot less groupthink, not a lot more.

[viper37]

I like both. 

You like Tulsi and Brainrot JR???

I also think that not engaging in a debate is precisely the wrong thing to do for the left,  because we need a lot less groupthink, not a lot more.

Depends which issues.

I think transrights for minors is a dead issue, especially when you talk about surgeries.  I wouldn't define myself as a conservative and I'm against it.  I'm even against puberty blockers for teens until science can prove me it has no adverse effects of brain development.

The left went way too far on this and it alienated a lot of people.

Sports is another edge issue from where the Dems should back out and adopt a more moderate stance.  Let science speak rather than activists of all kinds.  Try to seek a middle ground.

Bathroom though, let the Republicans look like idiots.

[Sheilbh]

The US exports oil.  It's involvement in the Middle east regarding oil has always been primarily a concern for oil's impact on allies, not the US.  Sure, oil instability in the ME causes prices to rise, and that impacts the US, but it's not an existential concern like it is for, say, Japan.

Yes - and I think those twin phenomena of an explosion in domestic oil production and seemingly never-ending costs in the US attempts to impose an order in the Middle East are pretty big structural factors in relation to Trump. I think the US energy revolution in the last 10-15 years is also a big part of the divergence with Europe.

[viper37]

Seems Trump and House Republicans want to fund their tax cuts to the very rich and corporations by abolishing Medicaid and cutting other aid programs to the poor.

To Pay for Trump Tax Cuts, House GOP Floats Plan to Slash Benefits for the Poor and Working Class 


And obviously, and another way to fuck with Blue States that already subsidize Red States:

One of the biggest-ticket proposals to raise new revenue in the House Republicans' document would hit a tax break cherished by upper-income Americans: eliminating the mortgage interest deduction. The document estimates $1 trillion in savings over 10 years by eliminating the break. Because of a complex interplay of different features of the tax code, an estimated 60% of the value of this deduction flows to Americans making over $200,000 per year, according to the Tax Foundation.

Eliminating the mortgage interest deduction would have an uneven geographic impact: analyses have found the tax break is more valuable to Americans in Democratic-dominated states such as California, Massachusetts and New Jersey.

In itself, it would be a faire fiscal measure.  Combined with the rest, it's just another fuck you measure to their opponents.