So lets game out Trump's imperial ambitions (Panama, Greenland, Canada)

[Sheilbh]

In either Canada or Greenland cases Europe would have no other choice but to rearm even faster because we're still stuck with all the other crap on our borders (Europe being surrounded by hostile countries or hostile ideologies).

Well if expansionism is back, there's a market for it in Europe too

[Barrister]

On the other hand: Ukraine has shown that invading might look easy but isn't necessarily so.
Unexpected things might happen. And it's not like the US isn't divided either at the moment.

In either Canada or Greenland cases Europe would have no other choice but to rearm even faster because we're still stuck with all the other crap on our borders (Europe being surrounded by hostile countries or hostile ideologies).

Ukraine was in a low-intensity war with Russia for 10 years prior to the "full scale invasion" and was much more prepared.  Russian military is fairly incompetent and corrupt.

Canada is utterly unprepared for a continental war of defence, and the US military is the world's best.

[Duque de Bragança]

Haha forgot about that movie. Maybe I was subconsciously informed by that movie

Thinking more about this:

https://fallout.fandom.com/wiki/United_States_annexation_of_Canada

Background
The primary reason for the annexation were Canada's natural resources, considered vital to the American military effort in the Sino-American War.[2]

 

[Zanza]

In either Canada or Greenland cases Europe would have no other choice but to rearm even faster because we're still stuck with all the other crap on our borders (Europe being surrounded by hostile countries or hostile ideologies).

Well if expansionism is back, there's a market for it in Europe too

Just imagine the Pikachu face of Orban when a deal between the Fourth Reich under Herbert Kickl and Putin's Neo-Tsarist Empire puts Hungary in the German sphere of influence.

[Zanza]

I actually wonder what the endgame for these populists in smaller countries agitating against the EU is. Do they want to replace the fairly benevolent and constrained EU with a return to great power politics?

[Sheilbh]

I wish they'd asked the people who agree to expand on where precisely. I get that many Hungarians basically think most of the territory of their neighbours should be Hungary. But say, Italy?

[viper37]

Vancouver, Montreal, and Toronto are a lot closure the americas army and toys then Fallujah though. Probably a lot easier to project force. I do say that as a complete military strategy novice though, admittedly.


I'd also imagine there'll be a sizeable contingent of redneck joy riders joining in of their own volition. Don't know how effective they'd be, but they still mess some stuff up.

So US isn't going to really want to co-operate with irregular forces.  For all that some people might love the idea of having the second amendment in Canada, at first US forces are more likely to seize weapons from groups like that.

The question would be whether Canadian institutions like municipal and provincial police forces co-operate with the new occupation authority.  Ideally they'd want a decapitation strike and otherwise things proceeding as normal.

It's only if they don't get co-operation from ordinary Canadian institutions that they might look into a "Sunni awakening" redneck paramilitary.


The US military didn't seem to have that much difficulty projecting force in Iraq to be fair.

Your only hope of survival is to trigger a Second Civil War and ally with anti-Trump States.

[Barrister]

Just imagine the Pikachu face of Orban when a deal between the Fourth Reich under Herbert Kickl and Putin's Neo-Tsarist Empire puts Hungary in the German sphere of influence.

Putin would love nothing more than to give Transcarpathia to Hungary, and areas around L'Viv to Poland, as part of wiping Ukraine from the map.  It would make those other countries complicit in his own crimes.

[PJL]

I wish they'd asked the people who agree to expand on where precisely. I get that many Hungarians basically think most of the territory of their neighbours should be Hungary. But say, Italy?

Dalmatian coast & Savoy I would imagine would be the bits Italians still think of theirs.

[PJL]

An interesting scenario is if the USA left NATO before invading Canada. In which case NATO (if it still existed of course) could invoke Article 5.

[Barrister]

I wish they'd asked the people who agree to expand on where precisely. I get that many Hungarians basically think most of the territory of their neighbours should be Hungary. But say, Italy?

Revanchists can exist anywhere.

Italy?  That's easy.  Areas around Trieste that were given to Italy after WWI, but then given to Yugoslavia after WWII.

Sweden puzzles me though.  Does anyone seroiusly want Finland as part of Sweden?  Or the Baltics?

And the UK - surely nobody wants Ireland back.  The question says "neighbouring countries" so I'm assuming it just isn't Imperial nostalgia.  Claims on Normandy?

HUngary, Greece, Bulgaria - I get.  Almost surprised Germany isn't higher.  Same for Spain. 

[Norgy]

Much of the anti-EU sentiment in the Nordic countries is based on "paying too much into the system", as in sponsoring the development of infrastructure etc in southern and eastern parts of the EU. And not getting enough back. Except, you know, the aquaducts, sanitation, roads, the baths etc.

  

During the 1994 referendum, my grandmother was mostly afraid papists would gain power in Norway. So there is of course that. 

[Sheilbh]

Revanchists can exist anywhere.

Italy?  That's easy.  Areas around Trieste that were given to Italy after WWI, but then given to Yugoslavia after WWII.

Sweden puzzles me though.  Does anyone seroiusly want Finland as part of Sweden?  Or the Baltics?

I agree. I had rather hoped we'd beaten that out of ourselves in Europe.

For that matter - Canadians. Is that fully seizing Hans Island or, like, Alaska?

And the UK - surely nobody wants Ireland back.  The question says "neighbouring countries" so I'm assuming it just isn't Imperial nostalgia.  Claims on Normandy?

The dull answer is probably Ireland - and quite possibly (given that a surprising numbers of Brits think Ireland is part of the UK, or that Northern Ireland isn't) just Northern Ireland.

But I like to think that at least some of it is the natural yearning for Aquitane.

Similarly I hope that at least some of those French just want the First Empire (objectively correct borders for France ).

HUngary, Greece, Bulgaria - I get.  Almost surprised Germany isn't higher.  Same for Spain.

Germany is interesting because I think discontent with the borders/disputing where Poland had moved to was a part of politics in the CDU right up until reunification.

And I'd be interested to see updated numbers as I suspect Poland is now far less interested in Lviv given their solidarity with Ukrainians.

I actually wonder what the endgame for these populists in smaller countries agitating against the EU is. Do they want to replace the fairly benevolent and constrained EU with a return to great power politics?

I think it's like small state populists in the US running against DC - a thinly veiled (and often successful) venture for pork. I always think of Salvini and Lega Nord on this which started off as specifically Padania moaning that their interests were being overlooked in Italy and money just going to the South, then it became a party for the entire North against Italy, then it became just Lega and it was Italy making the same complaint

But I think France and Britain are the only countries that have ever had significant parties pushing for a referendum or leaving - I don't think any of the smaller countries actually have (I think Greece maybe came closest during the Eurozone crisis).

[Sheilbh]

During the 1994 referendum, my grandmother was mostly afraid papists would gain power in Norway. So there is of course that. 

That strand definitely existed in the UK in the 1975 referendum, particularly (as you'd expect) in Northern Ireland. E.g. a poster from Dr Ian Paisley's church:



Ended up as an MEP - where he had to be removed from the chamber while John Paul II was giving a speech for heckling that he was the Antichrist...

Edit: Just watched the news clip "Mr Paisley quoted a 16th century anti-Papist slogan"

[crazy canuck]

US forces arrive in Vancouver - Most defect shortly after arrival after realizing life here is better.