Archaeologists do it in holes: Tales from the stratigraphy

[The Minsky Moment]

The evidence that Zorastrianism was monotheistic is pretty shaky, they were worshiping Mithra in addition to Ahura Mazda. 

I don't want to go deep down that rabbit hole, I think Zoroastrianism is at least as monotheistic as say Catholic Christianity with its trinitarian theology, the role of Mary and the whole panoply of powerful divine angels and saints.  But you don't have to completely accept the point to concede it is clear philosophical move in that direction.

Whether they were monotheistic is uncertain, Judah at least moved in that direction . . .My opinion is that Monotheism was a slow process championed by a priests of Yahweh but monotheism wasn't fully imposed on the people till after the Captivity.

I don't think it's uncertain pre-exile. The Torah and historical writings openly accept and presume the existence and even the power of other gods; they just describe how Yahweh is better and more powerful, which is typical and normal for an Iron Age Near Eastern tribal religion. The only solid historical or textual evidence that supports pre-exilic moves to monotheism is the Biblical account of the reforms under Josiah. However: (1) that is pretty late, (2) it requires accepting that account fully on face value and (3) it is not clear that the reforms as described involved monotheistic theology.

[Legbiter]

Native American gene flow into Rapanui dated to circa 1200 AD. Thor Heyerdahl was right but it is implausible that that is the first contact between Polynesia and South America.

Ancient Rapanui genomes reveal resilience and pre-European contact with the Americas

The sweet potato, probably from South America starts getting cultivated in eastern polynesia around 1000 AD. 

[viper37]

Native American gene flow into Rapanui dated to circa 1200 AD. Thor Heyerdahl was right but it is implausible that that is the first contact between Polynesia and South America.

Ancient Rapanui genomes reveal resilience and pre-European contact with the Americas

The sweet potato, probably from South America starts getting cultivated in eastern polynesia around 1000 AD. 

I supposed it could it take more than one individual to leave sufficient DNA traces for us to find traces? 

[Legbiter]

Around 10% of the genome is derived from Andean highlanders in native Rapanui so much more admixture than just 1 individual.

[viper37]

Around 10% of the genome is derived from Andean highlanders in native Rapanui so much more admixture than just 1 individual.

Let me rephrase my question.

Hypothetical.

1000 AD, native Rapanuis travels to the Andes.  They bring back some potatoes with them.
Or, native Andes travel to Eastern Polynesia and bring potatoes with them.

From there, the potatoes are introduced in Eastern Polynesia.

Even if there is intercourse between one Rapanaui and Andes, what are the odds that we can find the traces of that today?

The bag of potato will grow into something.  One child will be one individual who may or may not survive and have descendants.


My theory is that it is plausible that there could be later contacts and over the course of these contacts there are other exchanges leading to offsprings with Andean DNA appearing toward 1200 A.D.  This is where we start noticing them.  But it does not exclude that the two people never met before 1200 A.D.


That was my question: does it not require more than a single exchange for us to find reliable traces of DNA in a population?

[Josquius]

Around 10% of the genome is derived from Andean highlanders in native Rapanui so much more admixture than just 1 individual.

Let me rephrase my question.

Hypothetical.

1000 AD, native Rapanuis travels to the Andes.  They bring back some potatoes with them.
Or, native Andes travel to Eastern Polynesia and bring potatoes with them.

From there, the potatoes are introduced in Eastern Polynesia.

Even if there is intercourse between one Rapanaui and Andes, what are the odds that we can find the traces of that today?

The bag of potato will grow into something.  One child will be one individual who may or may not survive and have descendants.


My theory is that it is plausible that there could be later contacts and over the course of these contacts there are other exchanges leading to offsprings with Andean DNA appearing toward 1200 A.D.  This is where we start noticing them.  But it does not exclude that the two people never met before 1200 A.D.


That was my question: does it not require more than a single exchange for us to find reliable traces of DNA in a population?

Curiously I've literally just finished watching a video about this question.
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=HclD2E_3rhI

Interestingly it seems that go back a few hundred years and the odds you have DNA in common with someone who actually is a many times great grandparent of you are surprisingly low.

[Tonitrus]

English boy finds Roman gold bracelet while out walking his dog: https://allthatsinteresting.com/pagham-england-roman-bracelet

 

I am more curious on the details of how it was found...what the are the chances an artifact from the Roman era would still be visible/exposed above ground?  Short of recent construction (turned over in the earth and was missed/overlooked) or seismic or water/flooding activity?

[Josquius]

I wonder if there have been any suspicious happenings around that boy since. Like making an online friend who seemingly only speaks Latin and everyone losing an hour at school.

[Legbiter]

My theory is that it is plausible that there could be later contacts and over the course of these contacts there are other exchanges leading to offsprings with Andean DNA appearing toward 1200 A.D.  This is where we start noticing them.  But it does not exclude that the two people never met before 1200 A.D.


That was my question: does it not require more than a single exchange for us to find reliable traces of DNA in a population?

Yes most likely. How the contact occurred is now a subject for archeologists and historians. There's also been very intriguing finds like 2 skulls discovered in Brazil in 2014 who returned a Polynesian genetic signature.

Understanding the peopling of the Americas remains an important and challenging question. Here, we present 14C dates, and morphological, isotopic and genomic sequence data from two human skulls from the state of Minas Gerais, Brazil, part of one of the indigenous groups known as 'Botocudos'. We find that their genomic ancestry is Polynesian, with no detectable Native American component. Radiocarbon analysis of the skulls shows that the individuals had died prior to the beginning of the 19th century.

https://www.cell.com/current-biology/fulltext/S0960-9822(14)01274-3

It's a weird world out there.

[jimmy olsen]

A study of a juvenile mummy of a Homotherium latidens kitten has been published in Nature. While not as well known as Smilodon, Homotherium was a widespread genus, inhabiting Africa, Eurasia and North America. They were the size of of a modern African lion. It's believed, that unlike most cats they were diurnal and hunted during the day.

This is the first mummy of a sabertooth cat, and it's the first mummy of an animal that lived in a way (hunting with saberteeth) that no living animal does, thus giving us invaluable insight into how it did this.

https://www.nature.com/articles/s41598-024-79546-1#

Abstract: The frozen mummy of the large felid cub was found in the Upper Pleistocene permafrost on the Badyarikha River (Indigirka River basin) in the northeast of Yakutia, Russia. The study of the specimen appearance showed its significant differences from a modern lion cub of similar age (three weeks) in the unusual shape of the muzzle with a large mouth opening and small ears, the very massive neck region, the elongated forelimbs, and the dark coat color. Tomographic analysis of the mummy skull revealed the features characteristic of Machairodontinae and of the genus Homotherium. For the first time in the history of paleontology, the appearance of an extinct mammal that has no analogues in the modern fauna has been studied.
...

Discussion: ...
The life appearance of Homotherium and other sabre-toothed felids has been the subject of long debates12,21. In recent years, a number of works devoted to the reconstruction of the muscular system of Homotherium have appeared. Signs of hypertrophy of the muscles of the neck and forelimbs were established, and a longer and more massive neck of this sabre-toothed cat compared to Pantherinae was reconstructed21,22.

Our study of the general body morphology of the Homotherium cub mummy confirmed the results of myological reconstruction for adult individuals. The neck of the described cub is much more massive than the cervical region of P. leo (ZMMU S-210286) due to the large mass of muscles of the brachycephalic complex of the mummy. The skull morphology of the studied cub can also be traced on the only known juvenile Homotherium skull from Friensenhahn Cave in North America4. The observed features are also characteristic of adult individuals, except for the relative zygomatic width of the skull, which in the latter is relatively smaller than in juveniles.

The skeleton of adult Homotherium is characterized by a short body and long limbs12. The study of the Badyarikha mummy shows that most of the postcranial features of Homotherium can be traced already at the age of three weeks.

The length of the forelimbs in the described juvenile Homotherium is 18–23% greater than that in the juvenile P. leo (ZMMU S-210286); at the same time, the body length of the latter is equal to the dimension of the mummy or exceeds it by approximately 10%. The increased size of the oral fissure (approximately by 15.3%) indicates for wide mouth gape adaptation (it included development of the orbicularis oris muscle, etc.).

The front paw of the juvenile Homotherium latidens has a rounded shape. Its width is almost equal to its length, in contrast to lion cubs with their elongated and relatively narrow front paw (Fig. 7). The wide paw, the subsquare shape of its pads, and the absence of a carpal pad are adaptations to walking in snow and low temperatures. The small, low auricles and absence of the carpal pad in Badyarikha Homotherium contrast with the taller auricles and normally developed pads in the lion cub. All these features can be interpreted as adaptations to living in cold climate.

[Tonitrus]

https://www.bbc.com/news/videos/c23vnxx3nz8o

Pretty much only posted to say...



I am sympathetic to an idea that such/certain relics can reach a point of historical importance where it would justified that they be seized under eminent domain.

[Oexmelin]

Or a school, apparently.

[garbon]

https://www.bbc.com/news/videos/c23vnxx3nz8o

Pretty much only posted to say...



I am sympathetic to an idea that such/certain relics can reach a point of historical importance where it would justified that they be seized under eminent domain.

Well guess what?

https://edition.cnn.com/style/article/10-commandments-tablet/index.html

Earliest known stone version of Ten Commandments sold for $850,000

 
The earliest known stone inscription of the Ten Commandments sold for $850,000 – and a stipulation the owner must put the tablet on public display.

Described as a "national treasure" of Israel, the stone was first uncovered in 1913 during excavations for a railroad station near Yavneh in Israel and is the only intact tablet version of the Commandments thought to exist.

"The tablet's significance is testament to the deep roots and enduring power of the Commandments that still form the basis of three of the world's great religions: Judaism, Christianity and Islam," said David Michaels, director of ancient coins for Heritage Auctions.

"Its surface is worn, battered and encrusted in places, but running a gloved finger over it does produce, in some people, a particular thrill of touching a piece of Bible history."

Buried for centuries
The two-foot-square (0.18 square meter), 115-pound (52 kg) marble slab is inscribed in an early Hebrew script called Samaritan and most likely adorned a Samaritan synagogue or home in the ancient town of Jabneel, Palestine, which is now Yavneh in modern Israel, according to Michaels.

It lists nine of the 10 commonly known Biblical Commandments from the Book of Exodus, with an additional Commandment to worship on the sacred mountain of Mount Gerizim, near Nablus, which is a now a city in the West Bank.

"You shall not take the name of the Lord your God in Vain" was deliberately left off the list to keep the total number of Commandments to 10, according to scholars.

Michaels said the the tablet's home was either destroyed by the Romans between 400 and 600 AD, or by the Crusaders in the 11th century, and that the stone had lain buried in the rubble of the ruins for centuries before its discovery near Yavneh.

"The workmen who found it did not recognize its importance and either sold or gave it to a local Arab man, who set the stone into the threshold of a room leading to his inner courtyard, with the inscription facing up," Michaels said.

"Some of the letters of the central part of the inscription are blurred – but still readable under proper lighting – either from the conditions of its burial or foot traffic while it was resting in the courtyard."

Thirty years later, in 1943, the man's son sold the stone to Y. Kaplan, a municipal archaeologist.

"He immediately recognized its importance as an extremely rare 'Samaritan Decalogue,' one of five such known stone inscriptions that date to the late Roman-Byzantine era (300-640 CE) or just after the Muslim invasion of the seventh century CE," added Michaels.

CE is a term used in academic texts and refers to "Common Era", which is more commonly known as AD.

National treasure
After recognizing its importance, Kaplan asked a noted archaeologist – Yitzhak Ben-Zvi, who would go on to become Israel's second-longest serving president – to help him investigate its provenance. They published an academic paper that recounts the story of the stone's discovery and provides background information about its historical context.

Kaplan eventually sold the stone to an American, Rabbi Saul Deutsch, who took it to the US and put it on display at his Living Torah Museum in Brooklyn, New York.

Described as a "National Treasure" by Israel, its export was approved under a special permit issued in 2005 by the Israel Antiquities Authority (IAA).

"It is significant in that it is the only such piece that has secure provenance, a 70-year history of study and scholarship by renowned specialists such as Yitzhak Ben-Zvi, and can now be legally obtained and kept outside of Israel, provided it is placed on public display as per the IAA's requirements," Michaels said.

The IAA stipulated that the stone can be sold to a third party, but only on condition that it be placed on public display "where all can view it and enjoy."

Rabbi Deutsch put the stone up for sale, along with more than 50 other "Bible-related historical artifacts" he owns, to fund an expansion of his Living Torah Museum, according to Michaels.

[crazy canuck]

I guess they didn't have room on the tablet for all 613 Commandments

[Tonitrus]

Well guess what?

I tried to find a history of ownership before I posted...and failed.