Victoria 3

[Jacob]

1.7 has been crashing on Steam Deck although I can run it fine through GeForce Now.

How's the user experience on the Deck? I've been thinking of playing CK3 on it, but I'm not sure it won't be annoying.

[The Minsky Moment]

1.7 has been crashing on Steam Deck although I can run it fine through GeForce Now.

How's the user experience on the Deck? I've been thinking of playing CK3 on it, but I'm not sure it won't be annoying.

I prefer to run it through a full-size monitor because it's not ideal for the small screen.  But it's definitely playable through the Deck.  There's a community steam input that works well (although I modified it a bit for personal taste). It's from "Lord DarkWaffles".    The left trackpad is used a radial menu to access hot keys. So I don't find that a mouse and keyboard are necessary - although you could connect them to the Deck if desired.  I don't know if there is a similar community input for CK3 but there probably is and if not it wouldn't be hard to set up.

[Jacob]

Thanks!

[Syt]

Has anyone tried the Better Politics Mod? I think it looks ambitious:

https://steamcommunity.com/sharedfiles/filedetails/?id=2932134122

It aims to have a more realistic shift of politics from traditional interest groups (landowners, military etc.) towards ideological groups over time.

The goal of BPM is to make politics more dynamic, more legible, more materialist, and more historically accurate. Specifically, it sets out to correct these problems we have with the base game:

• Seven interest groups are not nearly sufficient to represent the breadth of political history.
• The ideology of an IG leader has too large and random an effect on politics. For instance, trade unions can swing from communist to reactionary overnight.
• All IGs are internally united, when many of them suffered infighting and splits IRL. Why should all urban workers become communist at the same time? Where did the moderates go?
• Political parties are shallow. They're too arbitrary, form and dissipate too frequently. Coalitions are either small and boring or huge and illegitimate.
• There is little international interaction between IGs, when many of them communicated and collaborated actively.

For more information about the design philosophy of BPM, you can read our design doc.


Features include, but are not limited to:

• New Ideological IGs: Liberals, Radical Liberals, Conservatives, Reactionaries, Agrarian Populists, Trade Unionists, Socialists, Anarchists, Reformist Socialists, Revolutionist Socialists, Market Liberals, National Liberals
• Vanilla IGs are reskinned and tweaked to represent various "Interests."
• IG splits: Socialists vs Anarchists, Reformist vs Revolutionary Socialists, Liberals vs Market Liberals vs National Liberals
• New Law enactment voting & sway mechanics
• New Political Rigidity mechanic
• New Journal Entries and Event chains
• New Laws and Institutions

As mods go, it seems to be one of the better thought out ones, but I loaded it up yesterday, and found the presence of 16 interest groups (many being tiny and irrelevant at start) a bit overwhelming

[The Minsky Moment]

Has anyone tried the Better Politics Mod? I think it looks ambitious:

Yes that's what would worry me as these systems interact with other ones.

Just eyeballing, 2.5% for the Legitimists in France seems low, given that at a later date (1871) there was majority support for a Bourbon restoration.

Total number of "American revolutionary socialists" is greater than the progressive liberals and bourbon democrats combined.  I can't think of any time in American history when that was remotely true or even conceivable.

[Not that vanilla handles US politics well - I got an option to ban slavery in the early 1840s (inconceivable historically) and the Republicans won the last four elections in my run through with 100% of the vote and no other active parties. It's like a Mitch McConnell wet dream. The US political setup and dynamics has been fubar since release and presumably will be addressed in a DLC.]

• The ideology of an IG leader has too large and random an effect on politics. For instance, trade unions can swing from communist to reactionary overnight.

Good morning, my name is Ramsay McDonald.

Where did the moderates go?

Where indeed?

[The Minsky Moment]

Some thoughts on 1.7

Despite my initial misgivings, I like how the power blocs worked.  The mandates are too strong and need to be nerfed and the "statues" are just a ridiculous resource sink to make a number go up. But the basic mechanic is pretty good and a nice substitute for the Vic 2 SoI system.

The lobbies are all a good addition; offensively it's a nice extra tool to try to influence another nation.  Defensively the impact isn't enormous but at the margins it can influence you.  The selection process needs to be refined a bit; as the US the big lobby were the anti-Prussian and anti-Austrian lobbies which doesn't seem a good fit.

The military system remains a big problem.  I still like the overall design and mechanically it works a lot better with more rational fronts and front management. But there is no effective supply and logistics systems. Armies do consume huge amounts of supply, but they do so automatically as long as your market has the goods. Even if you have no navy to speak of, you can send 200k troops around the world in the face of a massive hostile fleet to a tiny allied province with no infrastructure and sustain them indefinitely. Troops can cross deserts and mountains and swamps and the supplies just flow through. It's nuts that in a micro heaven game like Vic 3 there is no proper military supply system.

The UK maintains ahistorically large standing armies and embroils them in huge land wars. This is an issue for the US as well, especially if they pass professional army which is easy to do. Of course this didn't happen in reality and for good reason.  Governments of those nations could never justify such massive expenses to maintain huge armies not needed for protective purposes. The game needs some kind of system that forces you to pass annual or semiannual funding laws for the army.  The lobby system could help here - it shouldn't be possible to secure funding for large standing armies without a strong domestic lobby, and that in turn should only exist in countries that have land borders with other powers that have large land armies.  That would facilitate the historical arms races bewteen continental powers while forcing Britain to economize on land forces.

The flip side is strengthening the weak navies.  Most glaring is the fact that armies can travel freely overseas between owned or allied territory, even in the face of a hostile naval force. Fixing that would lower the need for Britain and the US to maintain ahistorical large standing land forces and make a naval first strategy more viable.

[Syt]

Couple bug fixes dropped today. Also, a video of Martin and Lino discussing what areas they look to work on for the free updates in future:

Dev diary tomorrow will discuss plans for 1.8 patch.

[Tamas]

Paradox is getting ambitious for 1.8.

My highest hopes are for this one:

Discrimination Rework

Another issue straight off the future update plans that we're tackling in 1.8 is the way pop discrimination works. Ever since release, we've said multiple times that the overly simplistic nature of discrimination is something we want to improve on in the future, and now that future is finally here! This feature is still in the 'figuring it out' stage, so I'll eschew the details, but our principal goals with are as follows:

To introduce multiple 'levels' to discrimination instead of it just being a binary state

To have the level of discrimination faced by a Pop be determined by factors other than just what the law says

To turn assimilation into a properly useful feature that isn't only available to fully accepted pops

[Syt]

I like that after the very foreign policy heavy 1.7 the focus for 1.8 seems to be very much focused on domestic politics again. It's the area of Paradox games that often least developed, and it's nice them not forgetting about it.

[The Minsky Moment]

Domestic politics should be a focus as it is core to the game and because it needs some love.  Last game as America, the Republicans won every election for over 20 years at 100% because the Democrats vanished after the Civil War leaving the USA as a one party state.  Until the Socialist Workers showed up with a few %.

Granted that may be an America specific/ACW modeling problem, but still.

HOWEVER, I do think the military logistics and navy fixes need priority.  Because the reality is that people do play these games to get into conflicts with other countries and those shortcomings verge on game breaking.

[Syt]

There are some mods that purportedly deal with the two party system in the U.S., primarily:
https://steamcommunity.com/sharedfiles/filedetails/?id=3087539609

US Two Party Fixed

This mod, USTPF, makes it so if the original Democratic Party no longer exists (This happens when landowner is marginalized and the party is not in government), then the Rural Folk led Agrarian Party will become the new Democratic Party.

This makes it so US won't suffer the "5 IGs in the yellow party" issue, which will destroy their legitimacy due to ideological incoherence.


Only touches two files: common\parties\agrarian_party.txt and common\parties\free_trade_party.txt

'23 Dec 7th update: The free trade party will also take over as the new Republican Party if the intelligentsia is marginalized.

It's also part of:
https://steamcommunity.com/sharedfiles/filedetails/?id=3121178205

US Civil War Fixed

New Ideologies and existing ideology tweaks – New ideologies were given to the US IGs to better represent their historical stances on various political issues (Given on the second day). Autocratic coup is less likely because of this. Jacksonian Democrat also has a few law stances tweaked for authenticity. See the screenshot for more details! (New nations that is created from USA will inherit these new ideologies)

Anti-Slavery AI Strategy for USA – Emboldens them to push through legislation despite of Slaver Revolts.
Slavery Law AI Tweaks – Slavers can now demand a restoration to legacy slavery from slavery banned. USA with an abolitionist in power or in government will be more willing to pass slavery banned.

Guided US AI – USA when played by an AI will seek to befriend Texas 8 years into the game, unless the player is controlling Texas. 15 months after that their attitude with Mexico will be set to belligerent unless the player is controlling Mexico. This doesn't mean the US is guaranteed to annex Texas peacefully, nor does it mean they will always declare war on Mexico on schedule, but they should be more likely to do so now.

USA Historical Characters Tweaked – Teddy and Abe are both buffed. Theodore Roosevelt is now a social democrat to represent his Progressive Party Pro-Social Security Policies. Abraham Lincoln is still an abolitionist, unless slavery is banned when he shows up, in which case he becomes a radical. Both are each given a stronger trait set to ensure they will run in elections.

Partial ECCHI implementations – Many historical Characters that were deemed important to have in order to simulate the build up to the American Civil War is integrated from ECCHI. Though most has their traits and ideologies tweaked. The ported characters include: Martin van Buren, William Henry Harrison, John Tyler, James Knox Polk, Millard Fillmore, William Henry Seward, Jefferson Davis, and Alexander Hamilton Stephens.

Albany Regency – At the beginning of the game, Martin van Buren still has his powerbase supporting him, this will disappear 55 months into the game. Just after the second election starts.

Old Characters reshuffled – A few base game characters are moved around to make way for the new characters ported from ECCHI. John Calhoun is now an landowner agitator so as to give Polk the leadership. Winfield Scott is designated as an abolitionist to ensure he stays in the Whig party. Daniel Webster now leads the industrialists, with Cornelius Vanderbilt waiting in line.

Loadbearing Modifier – The Missouri Compromise decaying modifier USA starts with now has many additional effects. Put there to simulate various aspects of the 1836 political landscape. These include: A resistance to revolution, a reduction in pop support of slavery political movements, and an initial increase to the landowner's Approval to simulate the slow burning paranoia of the south and the gag rule. This modifier will go away if slavery is banned! Likely triggering an early civil war!

Companion Modifier – The Compromise comes with a shadow version of itself, one that isn't decaying, to compliment the decaying version. This adds a non-decaying pop support increase of slavery movements and Landowner Disapproval. Taken together by the 1860 the south will most likely try to revolt. A few other effects are added to make the government system more closely simulate US politics.

A House Divided and Fierce Defiance– When the civil war does happen, both sides of the conflict will gain substantial buffs to adequately prolong the historically bloody conflict. CSA will also regain war support on every battle lost.

Third Party System and Two Party Fixed – When the ACW fires, the USA intelligentsia and landowners will temporarily be de-clouted in order for new party dynamics to form. "US Two Party Fixed" is integrated for this purpose as well. Briefly, this means the orange party will become the new republicans, and the green party will become the new democrats. With the IGs more evenly split between the two.

Reachable Arapaho: 4 provinces (tiles) were given to USA in order for them to be able to reach Arapaho.

Historical Oregon Dispute Resolution – A third way of resolving the dispute is given the to USA. If their relation with GBR is 50 or more, AND they are fighting a war with whoever is holding California. This will pressure both sides enough to reach a fast resolution. As was historically the case in 1846. The tweaked to the JE as done by VTM is also integrated for better compatibility.

Persistent Southern Paranoia – USA will generate a Wrathful Persistent slaver agitator every election cycle until the civil war journal entry is resolved. Jefferson Davis, a slaver landowner leader will be generated in the 1860 election cycle.

Washington Precedent (Term Limit) – When a USA president is already elected once, and they got elected again, they will step down as the IG leader, still staying the ruler for their lame duck years.
Opportunistic Landowners – When a pro slavery revolt hits 75% landowner IG will join the insurrection if they weren't in it already.

Civil War Borders Fixed – When the ACW fires, all slave states will join CSA, alternatively, all free states will join FSA. Except for the border stats. The capital for the US will stay DC.

Border States Logic –The historically loyal slave states, MISSOURI, KENTUCKY, MARYLAND, DELAWARE, and WEST VIRGINIA. Will stay with USA. Any states that gained slave state status via the bleeding Kansas event will do likewise. (Unless they are down south in Dixie (New Mexico and anything south of it))

ACW events fixed – The Wilmot Proviso will only fire after the Mexican-American War (MAW) is done. The choices will also have actual consequences now. Bleeding Kansas Will only fire AFTER Proviso fires. And the Caning of Charles Sumner will only fire AFTER Bleeding Kansas. The Caning Event also will no longer kill the caned character, instead giving them appropriate traits.

[The Minsky Moment]

That's nice but really the whole ACW saga needs to be rebuilt from the ground up, which I assume will be done when the US/Americas get their mini-expansion.  There's lots of things that are messed up, like it being possible to ban slavery in the early 1830s with the right agitator or party leader.  The war itself is a non-event for a human player, even if you blind yourself to metagame knowledge and build some dixie units.  Which gets back to the lack of meaningful logistic constraints and the bad modelling of 19th century wars being fought on vast continental scales.  This mod seems to address some of it, but I don't think it's enough.

[Valmy]

The Democratic Party was based around two basic things:

1st the 19th Century American dream of the self-sufficient yeoman farmer with obviously the most aspirational version of this being your very own Mount Vernon where you are dependent on nobody except human trafficking victims.

2nd Immigrants trying to achieve the 19th century American Dream.

The part of the white man. The little guy, trying to carve out his destiny from the untamed wilderness.

And it was, prior to the Civil War, a pretty powerful coalition that almost always won elections except when they fucked up Martin Van Buren-style.

So sure planter types are one of the main planks of that coalition it seems wrong to just have it be the party of slave owners and the big landowners. Sure it was a powerful part of the Democratic coalition but this was also a party that almost always won Manhattan (New York County) in the Presidential Election from 1796 onwards. The Whigs only winning once, in 1848, and the Republicans winning only three times, in 1896, 1920 and 1924.

If you set up the Democrats as some kind of planter-only big landowner dominated party then you miss out on a key part of its political power. Remember they were a national party for a reason and until the 1850s had both slavery and anti-slavery wings.

Edit: Of course I use the term "anti-slavery" relatively. Not abolitionists or anything.

[The Minsky Moment]

If anything, that understates it . . . the Whigs were clearly a minority party for their entire existence. The only time they won Presidential elections was when they nominated war heroes whose policy stances were unclear They briefly took control of Congress in the aftermath of Van Buren's presidency and riding Harrison's coat tails, then promptly lost the House the next election, and never had control of both houses again.

[Syt]

Still, the game a few weeks ago presented me with this hilarious scenario (CSA had abandoned slavery at that point, 1883):