Israel-Hamas War 2023

[Valmy]

You need to have means to get to America frpk house countries, though.

I am not saying the majority of Muslims in Europe want caliphate I am sure they do not. What I am unsure about is how many of them are opposed to the thought enough to work against it, but that part shan't become an issue for many decades.

But I think it's naive to think they or their families have come to Europe because of shared values. I am pretty sure most migrants everywhere are economic ones and they settle in their new countries despite and not because of the cultural differences from their original home.

Koopman's studies point to about 40% to 50% of muslims being fundamentalist.

How many of those live here vs Saudi Arabia, Iran, Turkey and other shitholes?

In the United States I find Muslims statistics sort of hard to understand because they are compared to Christian and Jewish stats and I don't know if they are comparable.

For example weekly service attendance is a big indicator for Jews and Christians at how religious they are. Like 55% of Protestants in the United States attend church once a week or more. 25% of Jews do. 30% of Catholics do. That is pretty important information to know how religious Protestants are compared to Jews and Catholics. Also how sometimes being a Catholic or a Jew doesn't actually have much to do with actually doing Catholic or Jew religious things but kind of an identity.

Whereas 42% of Muslims attend religious services once a week or more and 30% for Muslims between 18 and 30. Does that mean that Muslims in the United States are less religious than Protestants? That young Muslims are comparable to Jews in how seriously they take practicing the religion? Or does that stat really compare? Are Muslims even expected to go to Mosque once a week like Christians and Jews are? Don't know. Something like 15% of all Muslims have said they have never attended religious services ever. So...does that mean they are not religious at all? Not sure.

Likewise what sort of qualities would a Muslim have to be considered "fundamentalist"?

[OttoVonBismarck]

Attending Church (Mosque) has, IMO, never been as central to religious life for Muslims. Mosques are certainly important, but Islam has also long rejected many of the symbols and the "priestly class" of Christianity / Rabbinical Judaism. Imams are not the Muslim equivalent of a Priest, they are more like the Muslim equivalent of a Deacon, and aside from Shiites with their Ayatollahs (and I think Shia is only like 10% of Muslims worldwide or something), most Muslim religious leaders are basically just the equivalent of "popular theologians" who gain a following (that often perpetuates after their death.)

The Caliph had a special role in Islam, but obviously there hasn't been a Caliph in going on 100 years.

In traditional Christianity it is taught that you really need to go to Church, experience the liturgy etc. In Islam it is far more important you follow the Five Pillars in your daily life.

The "Friday prayer" was and is often an important time to gather in Mosques, similar to Sunday for Christians--but again, less so. In fact in many Islamic regions the Friday mosque gathering was only common in very large cities.

[Crazy_Ivan80]

You need to have means to get to America frpk house countries, though.

I am not saying the majority of Muslims in Europe want caliphate I am sure they do not. What I am unsure about is how many of them are opposed to the thought enough to work against it, but that part shan't become an issue for many decades.

But I think it's naive to think they or their families have come to Europe because of shared values. I am pretty sure most migrants everywhere are economic ones and they settle in their new countries despite and not because of the cultural differences from their original home.

Koopman's studies point to about 40% to 50% of muslims being fundamentalist.

How many of those live here vs Saudi Arabia, Iran, Turkey and other shitholes?

That's the Muslims in Europe. So even 1 is 1 too many

[viper37]

You need to have means to get to America frpk house countries, though.

I am not saying the majority of Muslims in Europe want caliphate I am sure they do not. What I am unsure about is how many of them are opposed to the thought enough to work against it, but that part shan't become an issue for many decades.

But I think it's naive to think they or their families have come to Europe because of shared values. I am pretty sure most migrants everywhere are economic ones and they settle in their new countries despite and not because of the cultural differences from their original home.

Koopman's studies point to about 40% to 50% of muslims being fundamentalist.

How many of those live here vs Saudi Arabia, Iran, Turkey and other shitholes?

That's the Muslims in Europe. So even 1 is 1 too many

The only study I found was this one:
https://link.springer.com/referenceworkentry/10.1007/978-3-030-68127-2_182-1


I can't acess it.

[viper37]

You need to have means to get to America frpk house countries, though.

I am not saying the majority of Muslims in Europe want caliphate I am sure they do not. What I am unsure about is how many of them are opposed to the thought enough to work against it, but that part shan't become an issue for many decades.

But I think it's naive to think they or their families have come to Europe because of shared values. I am pretty sure most migrants everywhere are economic ones and they settle in their new countries despite and not because of the cultural differences from their original home.

Koopman's studies point to about 40% to 50% of muslims being fundamentalist.

How many of those live here vs Saudi Arabia, Iran, Turkey and other shitholes?

In the United States I find Muslims statistics sort of hard to understand because they are compared to Christian and Jewish stats and I don't know if they are comparable.

For example weekly service attendance is a big indicator for Jews and Christians at how religious they are. Like 55% of Protestants in the United States attend church once a week or more. 25% of Jews do. 30% of Catholics do. That is pretty important information to know how religious Protestants are compared to Jews and Catholics. Also how sometimes being a Catholic or a Jew doesn't actually have much to do with actually doing Catholic or Jew religious things but kind of an identity.

Whereas 42% of Muslims attend religious services once a week or more and 30% for Muslims between 18 and 30. Does that mean that Muslims in the United States are less religious than Protestants? That young Muslims are comparable to Jews in how seriously they take practicing the religion? Or does that stat really compare? Are Muslims even expected to go to Mosque once a week like Christians and Jews are? Don't know. Something like 15% of all Muslims have said they have never attended religious services ever. So...does that mean they are not religious at all? Not sure.

Likewise what sort of qualities would a Muslim have to be considered "fundamentalist"?

Muslims are obligated to pray, among other things.  But it may not be done at a Mosque.

What we define as fundamentalist are generally followers of the Wahabist current for Sunni Islam, and those who follow closely the Iranian style of worship for Shia Muslims.

I don't think we could ever agree on a clear set of rules that everyone followes to be a fundie. Same for Christian and Jews.  I guess it's the same for Hindu  or Buddhits fundamentalists/ extremists.

[The Minsky Moment]

Imams are not the Muslim equivalent of a Priest, they are more like the Muslim equivalent of a Deacon, and aside from Shiites with their Ayatollahs (and I think Shia is only like 10% of Muslims worldwide or something), most Muslim religious leaders are basically just the equivalent of "popular theologians" who gain a following (that often perpetuates after their death.)

Same holds for the Shi'a: Ayatollah is not an official position but a title that a cleric acquires by popular acceptance or general consensus among appears.  It's just that who can claim the honor became politicized after the Revolution.  Technically an Ayatollah is just a very well-respected interpreter of Islamic law.

[FunkMonk]

Damn, muslins seem terrifying! There should be laws against them

[The Minsky Moment]

For example weekly service attendance is a big indicator for Jews and Christians at how religious they are. Like 55% of Protestants in the United States attend church once a week or more. 25% of Jews do. 30% of Catholics do.

Wow, I knew American Jews were backsliding, but I didn't realize things had gotten so bad that 1/4 were attending Church.

[Jacob]

Wow, I knew American Jews were backsliding, but I didn't realize things had gotten so bad that 1/4 were attending Church.

 

[HVC]

Jews for Jesus!

[Eddie Teach]

I think part of those numbers is that we non-believers stop being Protestants and being counted in the stats.

[Tamas]

So now that the Rafah operation is about to begin Hamas is suddenly much more open to a ceasefire. Who would have thought.

[Valmy]

For example weekly service attendance is a big indicator for Jews and Christians at how religious they are. Like 55% of Protestants in the United States attend church once a week or more. 25% of Jews do. 30% of Catholics do.

Wow, I knew American Jews were backsliding, but I didn't realize things had gotten so bad that 1/4 were attending Church.

Religious services. The Protestants are attending church.

[grumbler]

Same holds for the Shi'a: Ayatollah is not an official position but a title that a cleric acquires by popular acceptance or general consensus among appears.  It's just that who can claim the honor became politicized after the Revolution.  Technically an Ayatollah is just a very well-respected interpreter of Islamic law.

An Iranian I know explained it as "An ayatollah is more like a Supreme Court Justice than an archbishop."  Even then, their pronouncements are just advisory.

[Josquius]

You need to have means to get to America frpk house countries, though.

I am not saying the majority of Muslims in Europe want caliphate I am sure they do not. What I am unsure about is how many of them are opposed to the thought enough to work against it, but that part shan't become an issue for many decades.

But I think it's naive to think they or their families have come to Europe because of shared values. I am pretty sure most migrants everywhere are economic ones and they settle in their new countries despite and not because of the cultural differences from their original home.

Koopman's studies point to about 40% to 50% of muslims being fundamentalist.

How many of those live here vs Saudi Arabia, Iran, Turkey and other shitholes?

In the United States I find Muslims statistics sort of hard to understand because they are compared to Christian and Jewish stats and I don't know if they are comparable.

For example weekly service attendance is a big indicator for Jews and Christians at how religious they are. Like 55% of Protestants in the United States attend church once a week or more. 25% of Jews do. 30% of Catholics do. That is pretty important information to know how religious Protestants are compared to Jews and Catholics. Also how sometimes being a Catholic or a Jew doesn't actually have much to do with actually doing Catholic or Jew religious things but kind of an identity.

Whereas 42% of Muslims attend religious services once a week or more and 30% for Muslims between 18 and 30. Does that mean that Muslims in the United States are less religious than Protestants? That young Muslims are comparable to Jews in how seriously they take practicing the religion? Or does that stat really compare? Are Muslims even expected to go to Mosque once a week like Christians and Jews are? Don't know. Something like 15% of all Muslims have said they have never attended religious services ever. So...does that mean they are not religious at all? Not sure.

Likewise what sort of qualities would a Muslim have to be considered "fundamentalist"?

"Protestants" seems a pretty rubbish group statistically these days, especially in the US.
In protestants you've both the chilliest most agnostic live life as they won't groups, and the absolute worst of the worst, would make the Saudis go "That's a bit extreme" scumbags, and everything in between.

But yes, a better comparison for muslims would be a Christian group that is largely recent in its immigration.  This is a big factor with muslim immigrants being big mosque goers- many of them are religious, but there's also the community factor of a visible recent immigrant group.
I have an Indian friend who is absolutely not religious in the slightest, but he still goes to the temple every other week so he can speak his native language, eat food from home, etc...