Israel-Hamas War 2023

[Admiral Yi]

cases like that you mention wouldn't be. In the same time period however you had Israelis cleansing Palestinian villages, those would be.
Then there's considerable less headline grabbing minor incidents across the years too.

You use "every single time" differently than most people do.

[Valmy]

Jihadi Joe Biden's

The fact that the other side calls him Genocide Joe Biden just shows how tiresome and idiotic everybody is about this conflict.

As if Joe Biden is on Hamas' side or personally shooting each dead Palestinian.

And somehow both the insane nuts on both sides have the same dumbass solution: elect Donald Trump.

I guess Otto agrees with the Hamas supporters on that at least.

Happy to disagree with both Hamas supporters and you.

[viper37]

Israel has controlled all of that land since 1967. That chart doesn't track control of the West Bank, it tracks housing developments within Israeli territory.

Israel has just annexed land at the beginning of the war.

The land you're talking about has been under Israeli control since 1967.

As I said--Israel has not taken land since 1967, and has in fact given land back since that time.

In that case, Russia is not an expansionist country and has given land back since 1917.

[Duque de Bragança]

Jihadi Joe Biden's

The fact that the other side calls him Genocide Joe Biden just shows how tiresome and idiotic everybody is about this conflict.

As if Joe Biden is on Hamas' side or personally shooting each dead Palestinian.

And somehow both the insane nuts on both sides have the same dumbass solution: elect Donald Trump.

I guess Otto agrees with the Hamas supporters on that at least.

Happy to disagree with both Hamas supporters and you.

So even worse than Obamadolf and Obamarx? 

[grumbler]

If Palestine does not exist and Israel includes the West Bank, then the Palestinians living on the West Bank are entitled to Israeli citizenship.  I'm not sure that that is the outcome most Israelis want.

[OttoVonBismarck]

Firstly, at a philosophical level--they aren't "entitled" to anything. That isn't how the world works. People in other countries frequently have fewer rights than we do in America, and plenty of countries maintain disenfranchised portions of their population. Certainly, if Israel asserted that all the Palestinians were Israelis but with no citizenship rights, it would create diplomatic problems for Israel and alter how many viewed the country; but it would actually bring it more in line with a typical Middle Eastern country.

Secondly, I have no problem with the Palestinians becoming Israeli citizens. But that isn't a decision for me to make. I'm fine with the status quo because Israel is fighting against genocidal monsters, and they are our allies, and I have no interest in positions that attempt to force them one way or another when they are standing up for the West against Islamism--a true plague on humankind.

Frankly, I think the Palestinians should leave. They've lost too many wars and started too many wars. Make them leave. No different than the Germans we expelled from Eastern Europe. But obviously we lack the political will to push for such a thing because it would upset people.

What is important in the here and now is there is no Palestine, and when Trump is back, he'll make sure there never will be, and then we can move on.

[Razgovory]

How fucking hard is it to drive some nerds off the grass?

[garbon]

Jihadi Joe Biden's

The fact that the other side calls him Genocide Joe Biden just shows how tiresome and idiotic everybody is about this conflict.

As if Joe Biden is on Hamas' side or personally shooting each dead Palestinian.

And somehow both the insane nuts on both sides have the same dumbass solution: elect Donald Trump.

I guess Otto agrees with the Hamas supporters on that at least.

Happy to disagree with both Hamas supporters and you.

I'm feeling like a crotchety old man over what students are doing in America.

[Crazy_Ivan80]

How fucking hard is it to drive some nerds off the grass?

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=V7RNOh9Muk4&ab_channel=RealTimewithBillMaher

[Barrister]

How fucking hard is it to drive some nerds off the grass?

So we have a whole history of encampment protests now.  The earliest I can think of were the "Occupy" protests, but perhaps it goes even earlier.

So look, I'm a "law and order" kind of guy (shocking!) and these kinds of protests are flagrantly against the law.  They're in no way equivalent to the tactics of the Civil Rights era, which were both very carefully planned, and to the extent they broke the law it was with the point to draw attention to how absurd the law was - not lawlessness for it's own sake.

But again as a law-and-order guy, these kinds of protests are clearly designed to draw a police reaction, which will then be used on social media to try and gain sympathy for their cause (see what the mean police / university authorities are doing!).  There does seem to be some merit to let these kind of protests run, let the media fill with how lawless/filthy the areas occupied have become, and then (and only then) move in to clear them.

Venting one's spleen and demanding the protests are immediately cleared may feel good, but is perhaps not the optimal strategy (but what would I know - I had my spleen removed at age 13).

[grumbler]

I would agree with letting the protest camps stand, but not with permitting students to actually disrupt classes or ceremonies.  I am, like you, BB, surprised that the protesters-on-the-street are so inarticulate on exactly what they want and why they think preventing others from living their normal lives is justified.

[Barrister]

I would agree with letting the protest camps stand, but not with permitting students to actually disrupt classes or ceremonies.  I am, like you, BB, surprised that the protesters-on-the-street are so inarticulate on exactly what they want and why they think preventing others from living their normal lives is justified.

Yeah.  I mean letting yourself be arrested for riding at the front of the bus while black is great political theatre, same as chaining yourself to an old growth tree you're trying to prevent being logged - there's a clear connection between what you're doing and your cause, even if it might be against the law.

On the campus protests even still I think there's a distinction between occupying central squares or "quads", and preventing students from attending libraries or classes.  I think the occupations of central squares are stupid and illegal, but they're harmless enough it's probably best to just let things play through for awhile.

I can't really imagine these protests running more than a month or so - and likely without any meaningful changes in the world.

[Savonarola]

This time around the revolution will not have a snack break:

Students occupying Columbia library demand school allow food, water into building

Tragically the police cleared out the occupation rather than waiting to see if this would be the first revolutionary movement that would have collapsed due to lack of Takis.

[celedhring]

This time around the revolution will not have a snack break:

Students occupying Columbia library demand school allow food, water into building

Tragically the police cleared out the occupation rather than waiting to see if this would be the first revolutionary movement that would have collapsed due to lack of Takis.

Mmmmm... This made me think. I remember there was a cafeteria in the basement of Hamilton Hall... But it seems it's not there anymore. Damn, this somehow made me feel old.

Also, there were quite a few campus protests when I was over there. One got quite nasty (although not as much as this one, for sure). But these things eventually just blow over. In Europe we get those dime a dozen.

[Admiral Yi]

Brawling on UCLA campus, looks like pro Israels were on the offensive.  Campus security watched.