Israel-Hamas War 2023

[Tamas]

Yes. It is typical of the appeal to the heart "how could anyone possibly disagree with this?" tactics the far right like to use.
You need to think critically here about its purpose.
(incidentally, irrelevant to the point but the Israelis killed this baby, along with many others)

 

Dude.

[Threviel]

That's an opinion piece and a celebrity...

So they're only Jewish people when they're banging the Israel uber alles drum?

As I said, it's trivially easy to find opinion pieces and celebrities on all sides of the examples above. It gives no weight what so ever to your argument, rather the opposite.

[Josquius]

Dude.

Dude?

That's an opinion piece and a celebrity...

So they're only Jewish people when they're banging the Israel uber alles drum?

As I said, it's trivially easy to find opinion pieces and celebrities on all sides of the examples above. It gives no weight what so ever to your argument, rather the opposite.

Really? It proves anti zionism and anti semitism are the same thing when you have the editor of a prominent long running Jewish magazine, the Auschwitz Memorial, the Jewish Voice for Peace (containing many prominent American Jews on its board) defending the stance that they aren't?

As said, why don't we let Jewish people decide what is offensive for them?

[Threviel]

One editor is not the spokesperson for all Jews.

[Threviel]

https://people.com/movies/harry-potter-actor-robbie-coltrane-defends-j-k-rowlings-comments-about-trans-people/

Apparently Robbie Coltrane does not find J K Rowling offensive, by Jos logic that proves that she's not offensive because some celebrity said so. Someone with more time could probably dig up some trans person defending her so we can conclusively prove she's not offensive.

[Razgovory]

Poster in question

Yes. It is typical of the appeal to the heart "how could anyone possibly disagree with this?" tactics the far right like to use.
You need to think critically here about its purpose.
(incidentally, irrelevant to the point but the Israelis killed this baby, along with many others)

Yeah, so what are the conspiracy dog-whistles here.  I must have missed them.

[Josquius]

Yeah, so what are the conspiracy dog-whistles here.  I must have missed them.

"Look at this poor baby kidnapped by those villainous Gazans. They deserve everything coming their way. If you speak up in defence of Palestinians then you want this baby to be raped!" (very skilful typesetting the way they subtly put that word in a key position there) "Only by supporting Israel whatever they do can we bring the hostages home!"

One editor is not the spokesperson for all Jews.

You have no trouble believing this with these people saying anti zionism and anti semitism are not the same yet where you get people saying they are the same you have no trouble taking them as the spokesperson for all Jews?

https://people.com/movies/harry-potter-actor-robbie-coltrane-defends-j-k-rowlings-comments-about-trans-people/

Apparently Robbie Coltrane does not find J K Rowling offensive, by Jos logic that proves that she's not offensive because some celebrity said so. Someone with more time could probably dig up some trans person defending her so we can conclusively prove she's not offensive.

Robbie Coltrane was trans? When did that happen?
No offense to them but...they didn't pass.

[Threviel]

My point was that anecdotal evidence is no evidence.

Most of these issues where there's a discussion about whether something is offensive or a hate crime or whatever needs context. Not everyone that criticizes Israel is an anti-semite and criticizing Israel is not anti-semitic in and off itself. But, oh boy, there's a gigantic amount of anti-semitism that hides behind this mantra.

[Josquius]

My point was that anecdotal evidence is no evidence.

Except where it backs up your chosen side it seems.
The number of Jewish people criticising Israel is just on a completely different level to black, lgbt, whatever, folks aligning themselves with the culture warriors kicking their group.

Most of these issues where there's a discussion about whether something is offensive or a hate crime or whatever needs context. Not everyone that criticizes Israel is an anti-semite and criticizing Israel is not anti-semitic in and off itself. But, oh boy, there's a gigantic amount of anti-semitism that hides behind this mantra.

Of course, there's a venn which has a overlap, but its not at all the near circle that black people who think white folk saying the N word is wrong is.

[Threviel]

Of course, there's a venn which has a overlap, but its not at all the near circle that black people who think white folk saying the N word is wrong is.

That Coltrane thing was quite obviously a parody of you and not at all serious.

I think you are right here, but the N-word is the most extreme example, or close to it. Far different with other examples.

[Razgovory]

Yeah, so what are the conspiracy dog-whistles here.  I must have missed them.

"Look at this poor baby kidnapped by those villainous Gazans. They deserve everything coming their way. If you speak up in defence of Palestinians then you want this baby to be raped!" (very skilful typesetting the way they subtly put that word in a key position there) "Only by supporting Israel whatever they do can we bring the hostages home!"

Okay, so how would you draw attention to the plight of the kidnapped and the horrible crimes of Hamas?

[Josquius]

Yeah, so what are the conspiracy dog-whistles here.  I must have missed them.

"Look at this poor baby kidnapped by those villainous Gazans. They deserve everything coming their way. If you speak up in defence of Palestinians then you want this baby to be raped!" (very skilful typesetting the way they subtly put that word in a key position there) "Only by supporting Israel whatever they do can we bring the hostages home!"

Okay, so how would you draw attention to the plight of the kidnapped and the horrible crimes of Hamas?

I'd question whether this even needs doing. This message has been ran on a loop in the news and in the government for the past 6 months.
Hamas are bad.
Wow.
You think?

The plight of the Palestinian civilians now.... Not only is it getting less attention overall from many circles but if you try and adjust for the numbers of people suffering it's insanely underreported.

[Tamas]

Wow Josq you keep going you are going to make Viper sound closer to Raz than you.

[Razgovory]

Yeah, so what are the conspiracy dog-whistles here.  I must have missed them.

"Look at this poor baby kidnapped by those villainous Gazans. They deserve everything coming their way. If you speak up in defence of Palestinians then you want this baby to be raped!" (very skilful typesetting the way they subtly put that word in a key position there) "Only by supporting Israel whatever they do can we bring the hostages home!"

Okay, so how would you draw attention to the plight of the kidnapped and the horrible crimes of Hamas?

I'd question whether this even needs doing. This message has been ran on a loop in the news and in the government for the past 6 months.
Hamas are bad.
Wow.
You think?

The plight of the Palestinian civilians now.... Not only is it getting less attention overall from many circles but if you try and adjust for the numbers of people suffering it's insanely underreported.

Seems lots of people aren't convinced that Hamas is bad.  You know, like the lady who tore down the poster.  The plight of Palestinians has been on the news 24/7 for six months.

Sounds like "The Palestinians deserve human rights" is another "appeal to the heart".  Who could disagree with that?  We have to eradicate the Zionists entity, to preserve those rights.  Anyone who disagrees is a racist.

[Josquius]

Seems lots of people aren't convinced that Hamas is bad.  You know, like the lady who tore down the poster.

Yes. Thats the only possible reason for disagreeing with pro-IDF propaganda. You actually think Hamas are great.

The plight of Palestinians has been on the news 24/7 for six months.

It depends on your source.

I expect Al Jazeira don't really mention the hostages much at all and speak a lot about the Palestinian suffering.

With the BBC you get a fairly equal weighting in terms of time and attention, slight slant towards the Palestinian situation but then there's a lot more news to be had there. That Hamas attacked and took hostages who are still unaccoutned for however is never unmentioned for long.

I expect with Fox News and its worse analogues the fact that civilians are dying in Gaza doesn't really get a mention. The hostages are all that matter. This seems to be the dominant attitude with way too many.

Sounds like "The Palestinians deserve human rights" is another "appeal to the heart".  Who could disagree with that? 

Not really.
A comparable tactic from the other side would be those stories about individual kids subjected to horrors kids should never have to experience at the hands of the IDF. These stories do exist. But more generally its the shittiness of the whole situation and the numbers at risk that you see.

We have to eradicate the Zionists entity, to preserve those rights.   Anyone who disagrees is a racist.

Switch one word there and thats your stance, not mine.

Wow Josq you keep going you are going to make Viper sound closer to Raz than you.

If you disagree actually disagree instead of just flinging insults.