Israel-Hamas War 2023

[Razgovory]

What makes you think he isn't a Nationalist?

First of, because like most Americans, you have no idea what it is to be a nationalist.

Second of, because just saying you are something does not make you be.  I can say I'm an attractive, athletic female, that does not make it so.

Third of, Trump will say whatever makes him popular with a specific crowd and garner him votes.  Some of his voters are white nationalists.  AKA, very fine people or KKK supporters.  Which you somehow equates with nationalism.  I'd invite you again to read Wikipédia's definition of the word, but you will not and keep to your preconceived ideas, just like any extremist.  You have your own vision of the world, and anything that challenges it is wrong.  The only expert that matters is you, after all.

Trump is courting everyone on the fringe: far left union leaders, far right racists, ultra religious leaders, and he's hoping that will, like last time, catalyze enough to move the mass of the center of the Republican party and either discourage a portion of the Democrats, or even convince them to vote for him.  It worked under Hillary, it might work again here.  Given the nature of the electoral college, what he needs is some votes in key States, not millions of votes in all of America.

Okay, so Trump isn't a nationalist because... I am wrong?

[crazy canuck]

Otto has entered true believer mode.  Anybody wondering how Germans embraced the Nazi party need wonder no longer.

[OttoVonBismarck]

It isn't true believer mode--lots of the overhyped criticisms of the modern GOP have always been just that. Yes, Trump has some fascist tendencies. No, Trump is not going to create a fascist state in the U.S. The Presidency isn't strong enough, nor would he have the legislative or judicial majorities needed to do so.

Trump has negatives, those have to be assessed in any voting decision. None of his negatives include "siding with Islamofascists because of woke leftists making him scared of reelection prospects" like it does for Jihadi Joe Biden.

[Admiral Yi]

It isn't true believer mode--lots of the overhyped criticisms of the modern GOP have always been just that. Yes, Trump has some fascist tendencies. No, Trump is not going to create a fascist state in the U.S. The Presidency isn't strong enough, nor would he have the legislative or judicial majorities needed to do so.

Trump has negatives, those have to be assessed in any voting decision. None of his negatives include "siding with Islamofascists because of woke leftists making him scared of reelection prospects" like it does for Jihadi Joe Biden.

Trump clearly *wants* to create a one party state, a country in which he gets to decide who holds office, not the voters.  If he fails again it will be because a sufficient number of people resisted him. 

[Tamas]

Two pieces of news wonderfully paired:

https://www.theguardian.com/us-news/2024/apr/01/wisconsin-union-biden-campaign

Rank-and-file union members back campaign to ditch Biden over Gaza
Wisconsin coalition of low-wage workers and immigrants push back in anger against president's handling of Gaza war

and

https://www.theguardian.com/us-news/2024/apr/01/trump-stephen-miller-anti-white-racism-plan

The former Trump White House adviser, anti-immigration extremist and white nationalist Stephen Miller is helping drive a plan to tackle supposed "anti-white racism" if Donald Trump returns to power next year, Axios reported.
...

Should Trump return to power, Axios said, Miller and other aides plan to "dramatically change the government's interpretation of civil rights-era laws to focus on 'anti-white racism' rather than discrimination against people of colour".

I appreciate these are difficult times for people: balancing the prospect of being discriminated against by the state, vs. their hatred of Jews.

[viper37]

Okay, so Trump isn't a nationalist because... I am wrong?

What is a patriot?  Is it wrong to be a patriot?  Is it wrong to love your country?

I don't see Trump at that kind of men.  Sorry.

[viper37]

When ruling centrists / liberals like Biden embrace Islamism/Nazism, we all face tough choices.

Basically, if the GOP because fascists, it's because the Dems pushed them so far.

I have heard this line before.

Are you Hansmeister?  I thought you were two different people, but I think I was mistaken.

[viper37]

It isn't true believer mode--lots of the overhyped criticisms of the modern GOP have always been just that. Yes, Trump has some fascist tendencies. No, Trump is not going to create a fascist state in the U.S. The Presidency isn't strong enough, nor would he have the legislative or judicial majorities needed to do so.

Hitler only needed a 1/3 of the voters behind him to change things in Germany.
Trump has nearly 50% of them. And he can count on zealots like you that think he's better than Biden, because he's apparently become and Islamo-fascist.
Because he didn't give Israel everything they wanted when they asked for it.

No details of what that entailed, btw.  Did they ask for an aircraft carrier group (one more)?  For some more nukes (I know they have some)? For classified equipment the US is unwilling to share?  Did they say why they needed more of what they got to crush a group that 10x less numerous and equipped than their actual army?

When Russia asks for US help to crush Ukraine, will you gladly approve of your President sending weapons to Russia to crush the fascists?

[OttoVonBismarck]

So what would you have me do, Viper? Support a party where behavior like this increasingly appears to be the direction of the party?

https://twitter.com/HeidiBachram/status/1773629450632020012?s=20

https://x.com/SenJeffMerkley/status/1774513484606095688?s=20

[viper37]

So what would you have me do, Viper? Support a party where behavior like this increasingly appears to be the direction of the party?

https://twitter.com/HeidiBachram/status/1773629450632020012?s=20

https://x.com/SenJeffMerkley/status/1774513484606095688?s=20

There were protests against the government of Israel last week-end.

Should these people have been shot, dispersed, arrested, their house bulldozed and then the properties set off to auction for loyal supporters of the State of Israel?

You've already established that dissension is not permitted.

You have already established that Israel's actions against non Israeli protesters are totally justified.

What should the government do about these people?

The question remains, then, what should your government do.  Rubber stamp everything, or try to navigate the storm?

[viper37]

So what would you have me do, Viper? Support a party where behavior like this increasingly appears to be the direction of the party?

https://twitter.com/HeidiBachram/status/1773629450632020012?s=20

https://x.com/SenJeffMerkley/status/1774513484606095688?s=20

The first link refers to protesters harassing a Biden supporter.

By your definition, Biden is a Pro-Hamas anti-semite, because his supporters are heckled by Pro-Palestinians/Pro-Hamas far left protestors?  It is a very weird stance to make.

Just to make it clear, if a GOP supporter was harassed by a far left protester, that would make him a far left crypto-commie too?



On the second link, I see a Senator criticizing Israel's indiscriminate bombing of civilians in Gaza.  Isn't he free to express is own opinion?  Do all US GOP Senators and House Members represent to official GOP policy when they speak on Twitter?

[OttoVonBismarck]

Man, what a collection of low quality strawman posts. If that's the best you can do, don't expect a response.

[Razgovory]

Okay, so Trump isn't a nationalist because... I am wrong?

What is a patriot?  Is it wrong to be a patriot?  Is it wrong to love your country?

I don't see Trump at that kind of men.  Sorry.

Yeah, that doesn't make any sense.  Maybe you should just stop.

[The Minsky Moment]

The claims of "fascism" directed at the GOP are tired and overhyped.

And yet not entirely untrue.  There is a fascist element in the party, and its strength is growing. Maybe more Austrofascist or Francoist in flavor then full bore Nazi but the trend is not good.

[Barrister]

So what would you have me do, Viper? Support a party where behavior like this increasingly appears to be the direction of the party?

https://twitter.com/HeidiBachram/status/1773629450632020012?s=20

https://x.com/SenJeffMerkley/status/1774513484606095688?s=20

So I don't tell people what o do, or who to vote for.

When it comes to the 2024 Presidential election though, the choice is between Trump and Biden.  So I would suggest you compare and contract what both Trump and Biden are saying, and what both have done in office - and not compare what their craziest supporters are saying.

What you are doing in the above is "nut-picking" - choosing the craziest supporter of a side and then holding it up as emblematic of the entire side.  A person can certainly do that against MAGA as well - but remember you're voting for Trump, not Marjorie Taylor Greene or Lauren Boebert.

So, personally, I can criticize Joe Biden a half dozen ways from Sunday, but I would give my all-unimportant non-citizen non-vote to Joe Biden.