Israel-Hamas War 2023

[Valmy]

This basically confirms what I was already saying, the Democrats are hopelessly in thrall to Hamas, putting Biden's political relationship with the extremist left above Israel's security and ability to defeat Hamas:

Is this some kind of joke? Sarcasm?

$3.8 billion in military assistance a year.

Well it isn't 4 billion so clearly this means Hamas is pulling the strings!

Actually Hamas probably is alright with us backing up Israel, they get to use anti-Americanism and anti-Semitism to go along with nationalism when recruiting.

[Razgovory]

Why?
My consistent view on Israel/Palestine has always been there are massive cunts on both sides. I've ran into this sort loads of times in reality and online. Nothing shocking here.
They're a big problem for those with a few brain cells who care about Palestine and absolute gold for Israel shaggers.
The Holocaust denial is particularly idiotic, both in terms of recognising obvious facts and tactically.

How many times do you have to run into this stuff before you start to think something is really wrong with this movement?

[Valmy]

How many times do you have to run into this stuff before you start to think something is really wrong with this movement?

Let's just say it is a very convenient movement for those who want to mainstream anti-semitism.

Of course the irony is that doing that would only encourage more people to move to Israel.

[Grey Fox]

Why is Ovb imputing the responsibility of Israel's security solely on the shoulders of the US government?

[Iormlund]

I'm going to stick up for Otto (at least partially).

As far as I understand, Biden is trying to avoid an invasion of Rafah.
Which will likely have terrible consequences for the civilian population, but is also the only way Hamas can be deprived of the resources of Gaza and the current war concluded.

So it's not hard for me to see how this is a betrayal of Israel.


I'd never fuck up my own country or NATO over the ME, but I can definitely see where he's coming from.

[Admiral Yi]

Other unreasonable people use this to fuel their unreasonablness.
It's not a problem for me directly - though theres usually an overlap of stupid views with those that do hurt me, and it helps recruitment to these stupid causes as we've recently seen - but it's certainly a problem for the Palestinians and their supporters.

I finally get to my point.  Thanks for your patience.

If your objection is unreasonableness, then surely you would object similarly to pro Israelis doing bad things because that will also lead to unreasonableness on the part of pro Palestinians. 

If you object to unreasonableness on the part of pro Israelis only, and not the unreasonableness of pro Palestinians, then clearly your logic is tribal and not enlightenment thinking based.

It would mean you've picked a side and principles don't matter to you.

[Josquius]

Why?
My consistent view on Israel/Palestine has always been there are massive cunts on both sides. I've ran into this sort loads of times in reality and online. Nothing shocking here.
They're a big problem for those with a few brain cells who care about Palestine and absolute gold for Israel shaggers.
The Holocaust denial is particularly idiotic, both in terms of recognising obvious facts and tactically.

How many times do you have to run into this stuff before you start to think something is really wrong with this movement?

As said I'm well aware of the problem of the counter productive idiot branch of Palestinian supporters.
Their existence doesn't make the core argument that Palestinian people are human and deserve to be treat with respect and allowed self determination in any way wrong.

Same question back to you about the far right cheering for Israel.

Other unreasonable people use this to fuel their unreasonablness.
It's not a problem for me directly - though theres usually an overlap of stupid views with those that do hurt me, and it helps recruitment to these stupid causes as we've recently seen - but it's certainly a problem for the Palestinians and their supporters.

I finally get to my point.  Thanks for your patience.

If your objection is unreasonableness, then surely you would object similarly to pro Israelis doing bad things because that will also lead to unreasonableness on the part of pro Palestinians. 

If you object to unreasonableness on the part of pro Israelis only, and not the unreasonableness of pro Palestinians, then clearly your logic is tribal and not enlightenment thinking based.

It would mean you've picked a side and principles don't matter to you.

The people who support Israel are the ones in power. They make the decisions that can actually influence the situation and potentially save lives.
Pro Palestinian protestors exist on the other side of the conflict to this pro Israeli filter. Their job is to influence public opinion and to try to alter the actions of the government.
Spouting Holocaust denial conspiracy nonsense does nothing but keep things as they are, potentially push opinion further from criticising Israel.

[Admiral Yi]

The people who support Israel are the ones in power. They make the decisions that can actually influence the situation and potentially save lives.
Pro Palestinian protestors exist on the other side of the conflict to this pro Israeli filter. Their job is to influence public opinion and to try to alter the actions of the government.
Spouting Holocaust denial conspiracy nonsense does nothing but keep things as they are, potentially push opinion further from criticising Israel.

Hamas has the power to kill 1,200 Israeli civilians.  Iran has the power to deliver weapons to Gaza.  The Houthis have the power to disrupt shipping in the Gulf of Aden.  The UN has the power to legitimize whoever it wants.  Russia and China have the power to veto security council resolution.  Russia has the power to destroy all life on earth.  The ICC has the power to put people in jail, as long as someone else does the scut work to bring them a defendant.

The people with less power are not always right.

[Josquius]

The people who support Israel are the ones in power. They make the decisions that can actually influence the situation and potentially save lives.
Pro Palestinian protestors exist on the other side of the conflict to this pro Israeli filter. Their job is to influence public opinion and to try to alter the actions of the government.
Spouting Holocaust denial conspiracy nonsense does nothing but keep things as they are, potentially push opinion further from criticising Israel.

Hamas has the power to kill 1,200 Israeli civilians.  Iran has the power to deliver weapons to Gaza.  The Houthis have the power to disrupt shipping in the Gulf of Aden.  The UN has the power to legitimize whoever it wants.  Russia and China have the power to veto security council resolution.  Russia has the power to destroy all life on earth.  The ICC has the power to put people in jail, as long as someone else does the scut work to bring them a defendant.

The people with less power are not always right.

Hamas has the power to kill 1200 Israelis when the Israeli military makes a spectacularly unlikely sequence of failures and everything lines up perfectly for them.
Israel has the power to wipe out the entirety of Gaza. The only hurdles there are political.

I don't get your reasoning that having less power means they're right though?

[Razgovory]

Why?
My consistent view on Israel/Palestine has always been there are massive cunts on both sides. I've ran into this sort loads of times in reality and online. Nothing shocking here.
They're a big problem for those with a few brain cells who care about Palestine and absolute gold for Israel shaggers.
The Holocaust denial is particularly idiotic, both in terms of recognising obvious facts and tactically.

How many times do you have to run into this stuff before you start to think something is really wrong with this movement?

As said I'm well aware of the problem of the counter productive idiot branch of Palestinian supporters.
Their existence doesn't make the core argument that Palestinian people are human and deserve to be treat with respect and allowed self determination in any way wrong.

Same question back to you about the far right cheering for Israel.

The Palestinians are far-right for the most part.  They aren't cheering for Israel.  You consistently seem to ignore that part of the equation.  A good portion of the American far-right hates Jews and don't support Israel.  

[Admiral Yi]

I don't get your reasoning that having less power means they're right though?

I said having less power does *not* mean you're right.  That was in response to your comment that supporters of Israel have more power, which suggested to me that you felt the need to respond by supporting Palestinians, and that by extension well intentioned people should do the same.  If you meant something else by your comment pls disregard and clarify meaning.

[viper37]

They aren't cheering for Israel.

You and OVB are.  You would sacrifice millions of Palestinians to achieve the dream of the far right Israelis.

And OVB has indicated that nothing short of delivering to Israel exactly everything they ask for, when they ask for it is acceptable.  Anything else than that equates support to Hamas.

Are you also for the same opinion?  Will you also vote for Trump at the next election?

[Razgovory]

You've asked this question several times.  No, I will not vote for Trump.  I am not far-right.  You might be, you are a nationalist like Trump, but I am not.

[viper37]

You've asked this question several times.  No, I will not vote for Trump.  I am not far-right.  You might be, you are a nationalist like Trump, but I am not.

Trump is not a nationalist.  He's a moron.

But do you equate not giving everything to Israel as support to Hamas like OVB does?

[Razgovory]

Trump has said he's a nationalist.  https://www.politico.com/story/2018/10/22/trump-nationalist-926745

No, I don't think that think that failing to give Israel everything it wants is the same as supporting Hamas.