Football (Soccer) Thread

[Sheilbh]

Fair on those points I take that back - I was thinking more that the players who followed Bosman's steps are relatively limited. But I don't think it massively tilited things in the favour of players as, from my understanding, was the expectation/fear at the time. Things have tilted to the players but I think more for other reasons - and the clubs are still far stronger.

[Grey Fox]

 

[Josquius]

When I stop to think about it, It still seems really weird to me that teams can buy and sell players. Parsing this out of the football world... It just makes no sense, surely would fall foul of various laws.

European super league ruling - ouch. Score one for the brexit brigade. The potential conspiracies loom large

[Sheilbh]

When I stop to think about it, It still seems really weird to me that teams can buy and sell players. Parsing this out of the football world... It just makes no sense, surely would fall foul of various laws.

Yeah I think about this every transfer window. On a rational level it's all so fucking weird and so counter to 90% of labour law. But here we are - and it's difficult to see it working in another way

[HVC]

Some teams are built around it. The whole portuguese league, for example

[Josquius]

Some teams are built around it. The whole portuguese league, for example

Portugal.
The historic leading nation in the trans Atlantic slave trade due to its Brazilian colonies

[HVC]

They're not selling players, they're selling contracts. Totally different

And much like the past, England is one of their best customers

[Sheilbh]

They're not selling players, they're selling contracts. Totally different

And much like the past, England is one of their best customers

I feel like there's normally a Spanish step in between. A slow acclimatisation from Brazil - first Portugal, then Spain, then the Satanic football mills of Manchester.

[Syt]

When I stop to think about it, It still seems really weird to me that teams can buy and sell players. Parsing this out of the football world... It just makes no sense, surely would fall foul of various laws.

Yeah I think about this every transfer window. On a rational level it's all so fucking weird and so counter to 90% of labour law. But here we are - and it's difficult to see it working in another way

It strikes me as even weirder in some American leagues, like MLB. "Hey Billie and Jack, pack your things, you need to get on the plane to Toronto. We got a new pitcher from them, and traded you away. They expect both of you to play for them tomorrow."

[Sheilbh]

Yeah - I think professional sports is just incredibly weird when you think about it in terms of labour law and worker's rights. The trade off at the top - particularly in the US I suppose - is the incredible rewards. But strange to think it's happening in, say, League Two. I think there the average salary is around £125k which is a lot higher than average but doesn't feel high enough for me to live a life of footballer luxury or commit to a five year contract at one place etc. It's so weird.

Although in the US I think free agency is a bigger deal - which is the thing that I think people expected the Bosman ruling to do in Europe but didn't quite turn out in that way.

[Josquius]

Yeah - I think professional sports is just incredibly weird when you think about it in terms of labour law and worker's rights. The trade off at the top - particularly in the US I suppose - is the incredible rewards. But strange to think it's happening in, say, League Two. I think there the average salary is around £125k which is a lot higher than average but doesn't feel high enough for me to live a life of footballer luxury or commit to a five year contract at one place etc. It's so weird.

Although in the US I think free agency is a bigger deal - which is the thing that I think people expected the Bosman ruling to do in Europe but didn't quite turn out in that way.

I guess to consider there is where you're coming from. Educated professional with a decently well off background isn't the usual profile of footballers. When you're from a sink estate where most people you grew up with struggle to do anything, many sign their lives away to the military for years, and so on, then 100k a year but you have to live in Milton Keynes isn't a terrible course.

Though you definitely do get players at lower levels who retire super early, like early 20s, deciding to do other things than football-evidently they see the big bucks of the Premier league will never be theirs so they make a rational choice to go into a normal life, that though less well paid for 10years does have other advantages.

Also... Yeah. Location is a big thing even at the top leagues. Sunderland was once considering moving it's training base to London to better attract players (insanity) as we lost out more than a few who'd rather go to lesser teams but within spitting distance of London.

[FunkMonk]

To be completely honest, I've come around on the super league. I want it to work out.

I'm tired of UEFA and FIFA. I'm tired of nation-states buying success. I'm tired of the English FA and PGMOL. We have a chance now to remake the world anew and I'm here for it.

[Sheilbh]

I guess to consider there is where you're coming from. Educated professional with a decently well off background isn't the usual profile of footballers. When you're from a sink estate where most people you grew up with struggle to do anything, many sign their lives away to the military for years, and so on, then 100k a year but you have to live in Milton Keynes isn't a terrible course.

Though you definitely do get players at lower levels who retire super early, like early 20s, deciding to do other things than football-evidently they see the big bucks of the Premier league will never be theirs so they make a rational choice to go into a normal life, that though less well paid for 10years does have other advantages.

Also... Yeah. Location is a big thing even at the top leagues. Sunderland was once considering moving it's training base to London to better attract players (insanity) as we lost out more than a few who'd rather go to lesser teams but within spitting distance of London.

Oh sure - it's a lot of money. I just mean that £125k a year is not a private jets and luxury homes in Cheshire/Surrey lifestyle. So that bit of the trade-off of the weirdness of football isn't therre.

But you're still tied for quite a long time to a single employer who, aside from location, may do well or badly, may bring in colleagues or bosses that you hate/love and there's really not much you can do about it. If those things happen in a normal job - you look for something else. And at some point one summer or January if they decide it makes sense they may basically make you (and your partner and kids) move somewhere else entirely. 

It's a really, really weird system. I think the trade off - certainly in US sports and at the Premier League level - is that you earn a lot of money so it sort of balances out. Just not sure the extent to which that works lower down the pyramid - but also not sure what an alternative could be thinking of things like sporting integrity, having a squad etc.

[HVC]

To be completely honest, I've come around on the super league. I want it to work out.

I'm tired of UEFA and FIFA. I'm tired of nation-states buying success. I'm tired of the English FA and PGMOL. We have a chance now to remake the world anew and I'm here for it.

It makes too much money to ever go back. Gonna need a world war or something.

[HVC]

It's a really, really weird system. I think the trade off - certainly in US sports and at the Premier League level - is that you earn a lot of money so it sort of balances out. Just not sure the extent to which that works lower down the pyramid - but also not sure what an alternative could be thinking of things like sporting integrity, having a squad etc.

In the US you either make it or you don't. Sure there's minor leagues, but nothing like the purgatory of hope that soccer has. Think it makes the life of a tradable commodity more equitable.

Question for euro hockey, is it set up like in NA with main teams and farm teams, or like soccer with different leagues and relegation. I know a lot of players who can't make it here go to Europe, so got curious.