Scandinavian Thread

[Jacob]

Here's a thread for random Scandinavian topics.

First topic:

As you may know, Denmark recently passed a law outlawing burning the Quran. Legally, I believe, the law outlaws the desecrating different religious objects in various ways, but the real intent is to prevent the burning of the Quran to protect the sensibilities of Muslims - in Denmark and abroad.

The law has been hotly debated, with serious concerns about freedom of expression, political as well as artistic. The government has tried to dial it down to be as targetted as possible, with exceptions for artistic expression for example. Nonetheless, the law's been welcomed by local Islamists as well as various Muslim governments.

The idyll doesn't seem like it'll last, however. The man who triggered the furore by regularly burning the Quran in Denmark and Sweden, just announced that he's forming a theatre troupe. He anticipates that the troupe will put on its first performance in front of the Turkish embassy some time next spring. It is almost certain that the performance will involve the burning of a Quran (which is still legal as a part of artistic expression).

[Threviel]

He's gone from a wacko to a fully legitimate protester.

Religious laws are anathema to a modern society and insulted muslims can fuck off. Next thing we can't insult incels for fear of them feeling insulted.

[The Brain]

Is this thread legal as long as it's in the gaming forum?

[Threviel]

I thought we were role playing.

[Josquius]

Can I be king of finland?
Åland shall be liberated!
...
It's already mine?
....
Invade um... Russia!

[Jacob]

Is this thread legal as long as it's in the gaming forum?

  

Should've paid more attention...

[The Brain]

Making it OK to do something otherwise illegal because it's "art" manages to be both poor, unsound, and lazy lawmaking.

[Tamas]

What I disliked most reading about this law was that apparently one governmental reasoning was that Quran-burning was not only "against the interests of Denmark" but "endangering Danish citizens". This is the worst possible reason to make such a law - showcasing that yes, violence works, if you want us more down your zealot road, please do more violence to us.

[Threviel]

It's absolutely horrible, in this day and age, to introduce religious laws. Why the fuck would a hobby be protected like that?

Western society spent centuries breaking the back of the church and now we have to do that crap again.

Violence will only increase whatever we do and muslim fundamentalism will only encroach more and more the more we let them.

[Crazy_Ivan80]

Soumission, one bit at a time

[Josquius]

Here's a thread for random Scandinavian topics.

First topic:

As you may know, Denmark recently passed a law outlawing burning the Quran. Legally, I believe, the law outlaws the desecrating different religious objects in various ways, but the real intent is to prevent the burning of the Quran to protect the sensibilities of Muslims - in Denmark and abroad.

The law has been hotly debated, with serious concerns about freedom of expression, political as well as artistic. The government has tried to dial it down to be as targetted as possible, with exceptions for artistic expression for example. Nonetheless, the law's been welcomed by local Islamists as well as various Muslim governments.

The idyll doesn't seem like it'll last, however. The man who triggered the furore by regularly burning the Quran in Denmark and Sweden, just announced that he's forming a theatre troupe. He anticipates that the troupe will put on its first performance in front of the Turkish embassy some time next spring. It is almost certain that the performance will involve the burning of a Quran (which is still legal as a part of artistic expression).

Ironically thus proving the need for the law .

I suspect he's operating according to the same kind of trollish reasoning as the extremists in that he wants action to be taken against him in order to push moderates more towards his brand of fuck wittery.
Quite a complex 3D chess sort of situation.

[HVC]

I'm more on the American side of free speech, but if you're going to have laws that limit speech against say races or sexuality why not religion?


*edit* not so much blasphemy,  but more as incitement and the like.

[Threviel]

It's the slippery slope argument. If laws are created on the basis of fear of violence the threatening party can just up the ante and demand more and more laws. In the end we'll have Sharia... The line needs to be drawn somewhere and all that. This is a win for religious extremism and as with any extremism they ought not be allowed wins.

The other party thinks that beheading is a proper way to handle disagreements, there are no reasonable blasphemy laws that will stop the threat of violence, the gulf is too wide.

Furthermore: Religion is a choice, sex and race is not a choice. They are not the same.

[Josquius]

Is it being done for "fear" of violence though?
And not more for pretty logical reasons of seeing violence as a negative thing and wanting to control incitement of it.
Just because religious extremists are happy with their religion not being insulted doesn't mean its necessarily a terrible thing.  I wouldn't see them as the 'other party' in this so much as just the normal members of the public who'd rather not have two flavours of righty shouting bollocks and trying to kill each other in the streets.

Furthermore: Religion is a choice, sex and race is not a choice. They are not the same.

In theory sure. But in practice...not really.
If you're born to Muslim parents then you're probably a Muslim. Even if you're not particularly religious (which again might not be something you have full power over), choosing to convert away from that would be the active choice.

[Threviel]

Is it being done for "fear" of violence though?
And not more for pretty logical reasons of seeing violence as a negative thing and wanting to control incitement of it.

Those two are the same and the Swedish discussion at least is centered around fear of violence and fear of retribution from Islamic countries.

Just because religious extremists are happy with their religion not being insulted doesn't mean its necessarily a terrible thing.  I wouldn't see them as the 'other party' in this so much as just the normal members of the public who'd rather not have two flavours of righty shouting bollocks and trying to kill each other in the streets.

I don't care if they're happy, I care about them beheading enemies of their faith and that there are huuuuuuuuuge numbers of adherents to Islam that think that beheadings are right and proper. That they think that should not affect our laws. They in this case being foreigners. Swedish religious extremists should be handled by social services or the police if necessary.

Furthermore: Religion is a choice, sex and race is not a choice. They are not the same.

In theory sure. But in practice...not really.
If you're born to Muslim parents then you're probably a Muslim. Even if you're not particularly religious (which again might not be something you have full power over), choosing to convert away from that would be the active choice.

If you are born to racist/communist/whatever parents you are expected to rise above that by active choice. There's nothing special about religion making it okay to demand special laws.