Israel-Hamas War 2023

[Threviel]

Yeah, I know, but if this mess is to be solved someone needs to step up. Pay the African Union or something, some external, non UN, actor is probably needed.

[Razgovory]

Iran might do it.

[Crazy_Ivan80]

There is no country in NATO who wants their citizens patrolling the streets of Gaza.

we're having enough troubles patrolling our own streets

[Tamas]

There is no country in NATO who wants their citizens patrolling the streets of Gaza.

we're having enough troubles patrolling our own streets

 

[Grey Fox]

Having western countries fix Gaza and not Haiti would send quite a message.

[Tamas]

Having western countries fix Gaza and not Haiti would send quite a message.

It's not like white troops moving in to pacify black Haiti would send a better message.

[grumbler]

The short-term solution is to bring in PA security forces and administrators, which is what the people of Gaza have repeatedly expressed their preference for in polls.  The PA is the enemy of Hamas and, while not chummy with Israel, at least accepts Israel's right to exist.  True, it is also corrupt, but baby steps, man.

[Tamas]

The short-term solution is to bring in PA security forces and administrators, which is what the people of Gaza have repeatedly expressed their preference for in polls.  The PA is the enemy of Hamas and, while not chummy with Israel, at least accepts Israel's right to exist.  True, it is also corrupt, but baby steps, man.

Several days ago the PA spokeperson said they will absolutely not take over the management of Gaza without some international guarantees for a long term plan for Palestine. Which I understand to a big degree, but on the other hand is a bit of a dick move since they want the whole world to feel sympathy for their own people, while they say "F it I ain't helping them unless I get what I want".

[viper37]

I think it's important to put this act of resistance context: Oppression of Jews.

Which oppression of Jews?  How are Jews oppressed here?
Hamas committed a terror act, it's not oppression, it's a terror act.

Let us look at the definition here:
prolonged cruel or unjust treatment or control.

That fits the definition of the Palestinians.  But certainly not the Jewish population of Israel.

Unless you are telling me the government of Israel is applying a prolonged cruel or unjust treatment or control of its own people?  I have seen no evidence of that, but you are welcome to submit your evidence.

No, they threw rocks at Jews before the Zionists came.  When Jews were second-class citizens.

Jews started killing Arabs the moment they came.  If we go back in time to see who was killing who first, we'll turn the clock back to before Abraham.

[Razgovory]

I think it's important to put this act of resistance context: Oppression of Jews.

Which oppression of Jews?  How are Jews oppressed here?
Hamas committed a terror act, it's not oppression, it's a terror act.

Let us look at the definition here:
prolonged cruel or unjust treatment or control.

That fits the definition of the Palestinians.  But certainly not the Jewish population of Israel.

Unless you are telling me the government of Israel is applying a prolonged cruel or unjust treatment or control of its own people?  I have seen no evidence of that, but you are welcome to submit your evidence.

No, they threw rocks at Jews before the Zionists came.  When Jews were second-class citizens.

Jews started killing Arabs the moment they came.  If we go back in time to see who was killing who first, we'll turn the clock back to before Abraham.

Are you really this dumb?

[viper37]

But we are not talking about things from thousands of years ago. We are talking about stuff from a hundred or so years ago. Even over here memories aren't that short.

I honestly don't know what Raz is talking about.  Jews and Muslims have been killing one another and been intermittently at peace since the arrival of Islam.

If we are tracing a line at the beginning of the Zionist movement, then both groups have been committing atrocities against one another in the area.

If the line is the creation of Israel, there's a clear demarcation that the country is expelling and killing Palestinians in the hope that even more will leave the area by themselves and this process as accelerated recently.  

Heck, we even had eye witness testimony on this forum for a while who reveled in saying that Palestinian wells should be poisoned.  But Siegebreaker was the oppressed one according to Raz?  It does not really make sense to me.

[viper37]

The short-term solution is to bring in PA security forces and administrators, which is what the people of Gaza have repeatedly expressed their preference for in polls.  The PA is the enemy of Hamas and, while not chummy with Israel, at least accepts Israel's right to exist.  True, it is also corrupt, but baby steps, man.

There's not much of a PA security force left.  Netenyahu's policy has to been to weaken them to the point of collapse.  I don't think they can hold Gaza, or hold anything.  They can't maintain security in what's left of the WB.

[viper37]

Are you really this dumb?

I have to adjust my discourse to whomever I am talking to.

Settlers are throwing rocks at Palestinians, among other things, forcing them to protect themselves with grids.  The goal is to force them to leave their homes.
The IDF is shooting unarmed civilians in the streets and the soldiers are congratulated by politicians.
This is Russia-like level of terror.

You approve of that, I don't.

It's that simple.

You use the justification that 200 hundred years ago, some Muslims threw rocks at some Jewish families to justify this.  I disagree.

Call me dumb if you want.  Not even the Holocaust justify that kind of behavior.

[grumbler]

I honestly don't know what Raz is talking about.  Jews and Muslims have been killing one another and been intermittently at peace since the arrival of Islam.

I honestly don't know what you are talking about.  Islam and Judaism peacefully co-existed in the Middle East from the founding of Islam to the early 20th Century.  A ew riots and whatnot occurred, for sure, but the peace between the two religions wasn't "intermittent," the violence was.

The Zionist movement created both Jewish nationalism and Palestinian nationalism.  Conflicts over land only strengthened to impact of nationalist chauvinism in both camps.  That's what flavors all relations between them today.

[Razgovory]

I honestly don't know what Raz is talking about.  

Clearly.  For centuries Jews were 2nd class citizens in the Arab world.  This is how Palestinians saw them.  When Jews from Europe started arriving (legally purchasing land), they were less inclined to be brow-beaten minority.