Israel-Hamas War 2023

[Maladict]

This thread is giving me Old Languish vibes.

[mongers]

This thread is giving me Old Languish vibes.

Some people are also bringing their baggage along too.

[HVC]

But the constant colonization had to stop.

Jews are the natives of an Israel. Arab Muslims are the colonizers.

Should have played nice with the Romans

[viper37]

Curiously, the one area where Israel did in fact stop 'colonising' was in Gaza, and it's the one area that has given it the most grief. So that's not the issue. And arguably what may happen now (hopefully) is probably the best chance of stopping the pre-war situation, through another military occupation. Not nice for the people living there, but I suspect will actually be a bit better for them then living under Hamas rule.

It's the same people.  We can't separate the issues.
Israel abandoned territory in Gaza, sealed it off and colonized further in the West Bank, pushing deeper every year.

It's part of the issues.  I will not pretend there is only one issue.  If there was a single issue to this conflict, I'm pretty certain all the mediators who tried since the British mandate would have solved the problem, no?

A military occupation like pre 1993 would be temporarily better for Gaza, yes.  Over the long time, it would be like the West Bank.  Once Israel has finish taking what it can over there, it will keep pushing back in Gaza.

Parties like the Likud or Yisrael Beiteinu don't recognize Palestinians as a distinct people worthy a distinct country.  All of this territory belongs to Israel.  If it's not them, it'll be another party similar to them.  "Palestinians already have a country, it's called Jordan" is something I've often heard in debates over the years, here or on Paradox OT.


The first Intifada began while under the military occupation of Israel.

The West Bank is mostly under Israeli control, only 11% is under sole control of the Palestinians.  It did not prevent the second Intifada to begin in the Old city of Jerusalem after Sharon's visit.

Another occupation will not change much.  Hamas will be quiet for a few years, that's all.  We'll see another round in two or three years, like always.

[PJL]

Another occupation will not change much.  Hamas will be quiet for a few years, that's all.  We'll see another round in two or three years, like always.

You're under the misapprehension that things are still the same - it's not. The Israel of 2 weeks ago ain't coming back. Hamas will still be around, but their days of ruling Gaza will soon be over. They will be less of a menace than they were previously. Longer term who knows what happens, but what I can assure you is the status quo of the last 20 years is most definitely over.

[mongers]

This thread is missing a choice comment or two from CdM.

[HVC]

Somemething something sack of fetuses

[viper37]

But the constant colonization had to stop.

Jews are the natives of an Israel. Arab Muslims are the colonizers.

So, what you are saying is that once you change your religion, you and your descendants no longer have the right to live where you always lived?  But if you keep your religion and you move to another country, willingly or not, your descendants can come back in a millennia or two and have a right to live there?

I guess it's a good thing there are no more Canaanites polytheist groups in the world!  Israelites are safe!

Joking aside, I'll post again the link I posted before about the genetics of the Palestinians:*
https://pubmed.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/11543891/

Other research exists on the subject, but most of these people are the descendants the Jews who inhabited the area since long ago and decided (or were forced) to convert to Islam.



*The retractation of the article had nothing to do with the validity of the data.

[Razgovory]

Israel isn't going to destroy Hamas.  Hamas will live on the hearts of every child that believe Jews are descended from pigs and apes.

?

Hamas has lots of popular support and has brain-washed kids in the Gaza strip for 15 years using disgusting propaganda.  One of the things they teach is that Jews are descended from pigs and apes.

Hamas will go underground and many leaders and fighters will die, but the idea of Hamas will live on.

[viper37]

Another occupation will not change much.  Hamas will be quiet for a few years, that's all.  We'll see another round in two or three years, like always.

You're under the misapprehension that things are still the same - it's not. The Israel of 2 weeks ago ain't coming back. Hamas will still be around, but their days of ruling Gaza will soon be over. They will be less of a menace than they were previously. Longer term who knows what happens, but what I can assure you is the status quo of the last 20 years is most definitely over.

Before Hamas, it was Fatah and the Al Aqsa Martyr brigades.
Even if Hamas was completely wiped out, something else will emerge.

Unless Israel decides to wipe out a significant proportion of the strip and cleanse the area.  They certainly have the military means to do so.

If they don't do it, Hamas or some organization like it will come back.  If they do it, they prove they're not really better than the Hamas.

[Admiral Yi]

Other research exists on the subject, but most of these people are the descendants the Jews who inhabited the area since long ago and decided (or were forced) to convert to Islam.

That's not exactly what your article says.

[viper37]

One of the things they teach is that Jews are descended from pigs and apes.

And the people voting for the likes of Sharon, Netanyahu and Lieberman over the years have proven how much love and respect they have for their Semitic Arab brothers.

Palestinians literally bask in the love of their Israeli neighbors here.  So much love going on, you'd swear you're in Charlottesville during one of their Trumpist love parade!

[viper37]

Other research exists on the subject, but most of these people are the descendants the Jews who inhabited the area since long ago and decided (or were forced) to convert to Islam.

That's not exactly what your article says.

Nomads tend to wander around.  This region of the world wasn't exactly stable over the thousand of years of humanity with different empires colliding in the area.

Wikipedia expands further on it with other sources:

Haaretz had decent article, with links to another study, about the same subject.  Druze, Palestinians and modern Jewish Israelis all share a similar genetic makeup.


Both claims are as valid or invalid as one another.  Palestinian nationalism is just as valid as Zionism.

[Admiral Yi]

Nomads tend to wander around.  This region of the world wasn't exactly stable over the thousand of years of humanity with different empires colliding in the area.

Wikipedia expands further on it with other sources:

Haaretz had decent article, with links to another study, about the same subject.  Druze, Palestinians and modern Jewish Israelis all share a similar genetic makeup.


Both claims are as valid or invalid as one another.  Palestinian nationalism is just as valid as Zionism.

I don't doubt that they share similar genes.  That's not the same as saying Palestinians are descended from Jews.  Would you say Jews are descended from Palestinians (Caananites)?

Though in passing I thought Palestinians claimed lineage from the Philistines, not the Caananites.

[Valmy]

DNA tests revealed Israelis and Palestinians are closely related ethnicities.