Israel-Hamas War 2023

[mongers]

IIRC the Israelis invaded Lebanon in 1982 in retaliation for the killing of Israeli ambassador to the UK; worth remembering for an indication of the level of retribution they'll inflict on Hamas and Palestinians.

Also didn't the Israeli invasion and subsequent siege of Beirut kill something like 20,000 in Lebanon?

[Josephus]

Netanyahu in his address told Gaza residents to "flee" because "We will turn all Hamas hiding places into Rubble."

to where?

[Razgovory]

They're not comic book villains, they're actual villains who sincerely believe that it's their mission to eradicate the state of Israel and the jews living there. And after that: elsewhere.
That ideology is quite clear as to what the end goal for the world is.
Intent matters, regardless of wether or not the means are there.
So stop being an apologist for Evil.

 
OK. Sure. Let's say you're right and they really are as stupid as you think they are.

How then did they stay in power this long? How did they get there in the first place?

This kind of dissonance in the ignorant far right view of the world is so amazing. Your enemies are simultaneously impure, stupid and weak... Yet a massive massive threat that need to be tackled far more strongly than any of the corrupt weaklings of the world today are able to.

Tyr, Corbyn is gone.  You don't have to defend Hamas anymore.

Raz, Trump is gone. You don't need to pretend hostile forces are simpletons anymore.

Hamas got in power because Palestinians hate Jews.  Killing Jews is very popular with Palestinians and Hamas came to power in an election.  You don't need to come up with some sort of grand strategy on why Hamas is doing this.  Killing Jews is their default.  They just went big this time.

[Gups]

On security failure there's the intelligence side and I think there was an element of hubris around Iron Dome plus their intelligence.

But the thing I'm seeing Israelis point to is that there was only a skeleton force in Southern Israel and around Gaza because most of the IDF was deployed to the West Bank. From what I've seen that's being tied very much to Netanyahu and in particular his extreme parts of his coalition. I've also seen Israelis absolutely raging about videos of ultra-Orthodox dancing in the streets today as part of the holidays despite what's happened and the state of emergency - particularly as they also have exemptions from the national call up/mobilisation.

Let's hope so. Hamas are disgusting but there's a significant portion of Israelis who are no better.

[Josephus]

The taking of hostages is unusual for Hamas, if that's what they are doing. I guess human shields? Would IDF dare bomb targets with Israelis in them?

[Sheilbh]

I think at least 50 hostages confirmed so far which will definitely complicate things for the IDF.

[OttoVonBismarck]

Netanyahu in his address told Gaza residents to "flee" because "We will turn all Hamas hiding places into Rubble."

to where?

I wondered the same—I guess into the sea?

[mongers]

The taking of hostages is unusual for Hamas, if that's what they are doing. I guess human shields? Would IDF dare bomb targets with Israelis in them?

From this list there's only one confirmed swap, but I guess that might be largely down to lack of opportunities:

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/List_of_Arab%E2%80%93Israeli_prisoner_exchanges

On October 18, 2011, captured IDF tank gunner Gilad Shalit, captured by the Palestinian militant organization Hamas in 2006, was released in exchange for 1027 Palestinian prisoners held in Israel.

[PJL]

Most likely it will end up with the depopulation and obliteration of the Gaza Strip.

I was concerned I might have gone over the top on my reply but given the lack of comments on this and the way events are unfolding, it might not be too far off the mark.

[Caliga]

Netanyahu in his address told Gaza residents to "flee" because "We will turn all Hamas hiding places into Rubble."

to where?

I wondered the same—I guess into the sea?

I mean, what's he supposed to say... "Gaza residents, prepare to die?"

[Jacob]

Upthread is was suggested it applies to civilians in highrise buildings which are also being used by Hamas as C&C centres.

[viper37]

I mean, what's he supposed to say... "Gaza residents, prepare to die?"

That would be in character.

[Admiral Yi]

Netanyahu in his address told Gaza residents to "flee" because "We will turn all Hamas hiding places into Rubble."

to where?

Presumably to any building that doesn't also house Hamas.

[Admiral Yi]

https://www.youtube.com/shorts/c5tWYj_Y60w

Not this building.

[Josquius]

Hamas got in power because Palestinians hate Jews.  Killing Jews is very popular with Palestinians and Hamas came to power in an election.  You don't need to come up with some sort of grand strategy on why Hamas is doing this.  Killing Jews is their default.  They just went big this time.

And in killing a few hundred Jews today they lose their ability to keep killing Jews ever again in the future.

No. I find it hard to believe that a majority of the Palestinian population value just one more dead Jew over their own fundamental survival.