Russo-Ukrainian War 2014-23 and Invasion

[Crazy_Ivan80]

Rumours that the Russians have fired at civilian ships

[Grey Fox]

https://x.com/ukikaski/status/1690830644379557889?s=61&t=ibsS0wDgi_2qddo-rUQe1g

Russian Navy boarding a ship off Turkey apparently.

(X.com is twitter's new address.)

[grumbler]

https://x.com/ukikaski/status/1690830644379557889?s=61&t=ibsS0wDgi_2qddo-rUQe1g

Russian Navy boarding a ship off Turkey apparently.

(X.com is twitter's new address.)

That's either a very brave or a very stupid helo pilot.  Getting down into ground effect with the ship structure providing so many unknown effects on wind seems a tad reckless.  I think most helos would have extracted the troops by hovering higher and lowering a ladder (that's the way the USN did it when I was airlifted from a DDG).

[Tonitrus]

What does international law say about seizing/boarding merchant vessels in international waters in which a formal war is not declared?

The UN verbiage on piracy don't seem to apply...but I wonder what would happen if we started moving Ukrainian grain on US-flag merchant ships. 

[grumbler]

What does international law say about seizing/boarding merchant vessels in international waters in which a formal war is not declared?

The UN verbiage on piracy don't seem to apply...but I wonder what would happen if we started moving Ukrainian grain on US-flag merchant ships. 

If Russia had declared war on Ukraine, it could declare a blockade and be easily in the clear.  Informal blockades, called "pacific blockades" (because they are supposed to be an alternative to war), have been implemented for centuries, even though contrary to formal international law.  Neutrals can be boarded in a pacific blockade but only in such a way as to not interfere more than the minimum possible with their own transits.  If prohibited material is found, the neutral may be diverted, even with force.  Interestingly, common usage has it that vessels with refuse to cooperate with a pacific blockade may be fired upon.

Russia's use of a pacific blockade in an undeclared actual war might be unprecedented, since the justification for a pacific blockade is that it is only undertaken to avert a war.

[crazy canuck]

Interesting point. 

How would you characterize the Israeli naval blockade of Gaza a number of years ago?

[Valmy]

Interesting point. 

How would you characterize the Israeli naval blockade of Gaza a number of years ago?

Israel doesn't consider Gaza a separate country right? So its just blockading itself.

The same justification the Union used to blockade the Confederacy during the ACW.

[crazy canuck]

Interesting point. 

How would you characterize the Israeli naval blockade of Gaza a number of years ago?

Israel doesn't consider Gaza a separate country right? So its just blockading itself.

The same justification the Union used to blockade the Confederacy during the ACW.

That is part of the reason I asked the question.  Russia doesn't consider Ukraine to be a separate country so it is also just blockading itself.

[Josephus]

Interesting point. 

How would you characterize the Israeli naval blockade of Gaza a number of years ago?

Israel doesn't consider Gaza a separate country right? So its just blockading itself.

The same justification the Union used to blockade the Confederacy during the ACW.

That is part of the reason I asked the question.  Russia doesn't consider Ukraine to be a separate country so it is also just blockading itself.

Didn't Russia recognize Ukraine?

[Valmy]

Interesting point. 

How would you characterize the Israeli naval blockade of Gaza a number of years ago?

Israel doesn't consider Gaza a separate country right? So its just blockading itself.

The same justification the Union used to blockade the Confederacy during the ACW.

That is part of the reason I asked the question.  Russia doesn't consider Ukraine to be a separate country so it is also just blockading itself.

Yes it does. It annexed its occupied territory (and some of its non-occupied territory) but it still recognizes the rest of Ukraine as a separate country.

[HisMajestyBOB]

Interesting point. 

How would you characterize the Israeli naval blockade of Gaza a number of years ago?

Israel doesn't consider Gaza a separate country right? So its just blockading itself.

The same justification the Union used to blockade the Confederacy during the ACW.

That was an Atlantic pacific blockade.
Not to be confused with the blockade of Japan in WWII was an active Pacific blockade.

[crazy canuck]

Interesting point. 

How would you characterize the Israeli naval blockade of Gaza a number of years ago?

Israel doesn't consider Gaza a separate country right? So its just blockading itself.

The same justification the Union used to blockade the Confederacy during the ACW.

That is part of the reason I asked the question.  Russia doesn't consider Ukraine to be a separate country so it is also just blockading itself.

Yes it does. It annexed its occupied territory (and some of its non-occupied territory) but it still recognizes the rest of Ukraine as a separate country.

Strange than that, they would go to war, claiming they are re-occupying what they say is theirs.

I think you were conflating what Russia is claiming versus what they could legitimately claim. 

[Valmy]

Interesting point. 

How would you characterize the Israeli naval blockade of Gaza a number of years ago?

Israel doesn't consider Gaza a separate country right? So its just blockading itself.

The same justification the Union used to blockade the Confederacy during the ACW.

That is part of the reason I asked the question.  Russia doesn't consider Ukraine to be a separate country so it is also just blockading itself.

Yes it does. It annexed its occupied territory (and some of its non-occupied territory) but it still recognizes the rest of Ukraine as a separate country.

Strange than that, they would go to war, claiming they are re-occupying what they say is theirs.

I think you were conflating what Russia is claiming versus what they could legitimately claim. 

I don't think so. I have listed nothing they could legitimately claim.

[Barrister]

There is zero consistency in what Russia says or claims.

The Russian Federation has numerous times acknowledged Ukrainian independence and borders - most notably the Budapest Memorandum.  But you only have to go to Putin's own essay "On the Historical Unity of Russians and Ukrainians", or to watch Russian state-controlled media, to tell that Russia also asserts that Ukrainian independence was a mistake.

[crazy canuck]

Interesting point. 

How would you characterize the Israeli naval blockade of Gaza a number of years ago?

Israel doesn't consider Gaza a separate country right? So its just blockading itself.

The same justification the Union used to blockade the Confederacy during the ACW.

That is part of the reason I asked the question.  Russia doesn't consider Ukraine to be a separate country so it is also just blockading itself.

Yes it does. It annexed its occupied territory (and some of its non-occupied territory) but it still recognizes the rest of Ukraine as a separate country.

Strange than that, they would go to war, claiming they are re-occupying what they say is theirs.

I think you were conflating what Russia is claiming versus what they could legitimately claim. 

I don't think so. I have listed nothing they could legitimately claim.

Please reread my post, that is exactly the point. What they are claiming, doesn't have anything to do with the legitimately of their claim.