Finland, Sweden + NATO

[HVC]

Wouldn't it just be easier to get them to stop harbouring PKK terroists?

[mongers]

Norway should just annexe Sweden and Finland, problem solve. 

[Crazy_Ivan80]

Wouldn't it just be easier to get them to stop harbouring PKK terroists?

then Erdolf would find another reason. Don't forget he is an islamofascist.

[The Larch]

I read somewhere on twitter that it surfaced that the Swedish nazi that burned a Quran (which was also mentioned by Erdogan as one of its excuses for blocking Sweden's entrance into NATO, I think) was or used to be on the Kremlin's payroll through RT.

Did you guys read anything about that?

[Jacob]

I read somewhere on twitter that it surfaced that the Swedish nazi that burned a Quran (which was also mentioned by Erdogan as one of its excuses for blocking Sweden's entrance into NATO, I think) was or used to be on the Kremlin's payroll through RT.

Did you guys read anything about that?

THe guy who burned it - Paludan (a Swedish and Danish citizen) claimed that the burning was the idea of the Sweden Democrats. The Sweden Democrats have been accused of being a security risk due to their ties to the Kremlin and - in 2016 at least - were heavily funded by a Swedish businessman doing massive business in Russia.

So yes, I've read a bit.

There's no immediate smoking gun that Putin ordered it or anything, but it doesn't seem far fetched that Russia was involved in a move that so clearly serves their interests.

[Threviel]

FFS, it's quite obvious this conflict is being driven by Turkish interests for internal Turkish consumption. The minute the  Turkish election is over the Turks will either conveniently forget about it or we will have a new party in control and that's that.

[Jacob]

FFS, it's quite obvious this conflict is being driven by Turkish interests for internal Turkish consumption. The minute the  Turkish election is over the Turks will either conveniently forget about it or we will have a new party in control and that's that.

Yeah, the Turkish reaction is obviously very much driven by Turkish concerns - likely about the election. But I doubt Paludan consulted with any Turks about this?

[Threviel]

FFS, it's quite obvious this conflict is being driven by Turkish interests for internal Turkish consumption. The minute the  Turkish election is over the Turks will either conveniently forget about it or we will have a new party in control and that's that.

Yeah, the Turkish reaction is obviously very much driven by Turkish concerns - likely about the election. But I doubt Paludan consulted with any Turks about this?

Paludan is relevant only because of a Turkish desire to manufacture conflict. If it wasn't him it would be something else, perhaps the effigy of Erdogan hanging upside down or something else entirely.

That SD apparently egged him to do it is to be expected of a nazi-party that still has the taste of Putins cock in their mouth.

[OttoVonBismarck]

The reality is Erdogan quickly realized a lot of his base enjoys frothing up about disliking Sweden for various reasons, Finland is a sad bystander victim.

My belief is all these problems mysteriously go away after the election--if Erdo wins, he won't need to worry about public opinion again for years, and if he loses the opposition will not care much about appeasing his base.

The reason I expect it all goes away is because Erdogan IMO doesn't have any real fundamental issue with Sweden or Finland join--and he has some things going on right now where he has every reason to compromise. When Turkey got kicked out of the F-35 program (due to their own stupidity), they were left in a major lurch for future fighter jet deployment, especially since all of their pilots are largely trained on American planes. To offer a bit of a salve to that, the U.S. has had a deal to give them F-16s instead, several billion worth, but it's been held up in the Senate.

Most likely Biden can promise through back channels to get that deal finalized once Sweden and Finland are given the nod in NATO.

[Sheilbh]

I'm not so sure about if the opposition wins. They're outflanking Erdogan on Turkish nationalism and chauvinism - not least by saying they'll send all 3.5 million Syrian refugees "home".

They might be less provoked by a Quran burning, but I wouldn't be surprised if they took an even stronger line on PKK/Kurdish groups.

Although I think you're right it'll probably be solved after the election through backchannels and cutting a deal with the US etc.

[Threviel]

Since Erdogans problems are solely imagined up for internal consumption it doesn't matter that the opposition is more hardline on PKK. Sweden has already rolled over and surrendered on the issue.

[OttoVonBismarck]

Yeah, it's an entirely manufactured issue and Turkey actually needs some sort of new fighter jets because it was kicked out of the F-35 program. There is little to no chance this isn't resolved after the election regardless of the winners.

[The Larch]

Turkish president lifts veto on Finland's Nato application
Recep Tayyip Erdoğan says he will recommend Turkish parliament vote in favour of Finland joining alliance

Turkey's president, Recep Tayyip Erdoğan has lifted his veto on Finland's application to join Nato, a move that will strengthen the west's ability to withstand any future Russian threat across the Baltic Sea but leaves Sweden's parallel bid for Nato membership unresolved.

After a choreographed meeting with the Finnish president, Sauli Niinistö, in Ankara, Erdoğan said he would recommend to the Turkish parliament that it vote to back Finland's application to join. He said he hoped the vote would happen before the Turkish elections in May.

After Russia invaded Ukraine, Finland, which shares an 832-mile (1.340km) border with Russia, was forced to reconsider the foundations of its foreign and security policy and apply for Nato membership. It would be the 31st member of the alliance.

At a joint press conference, Erdoğan said Turkey's concerns about Kurdish terrorist activity in Finland had been addressed. "Turkey is one of the strong defenders of Nato's open-door policy," he said. Finland had taken "concrete and authentic steps" to meet Turkey's security concerns, and "with Finland's membership Nato will become stronger".

Niinistö said to Erdoğan: "Now we have got an answer, thank you," but he added: "Finnish Nato membership is not complete without Sweden." He expressed the hope that both countries would be permitted to join Nato at its summit in Vilnius in July.

Erdoğan has been demanding that Finland and Sweden do more to clamp down on Kurdish activists, but his objections about Sweden's behaviour are more deep seated.

On Thursday, Niinistö visited Turkey's Kahramanmaraş province, which was at the centre of the 6 February earthquake that killed more than 48,000 people, and he said he was shocked by what he had seen.

Hungary is now the only other Nato member still to approve Finland's membership, and it is expected to relent next week rather than be left isolated within the alliance.

Sweden and Finland, for diplomatic and security reasons, had originally treated their application last May as a simultaneous request since joint membership had a compelling reinforcing military logic. But after talks with Sweden, Finland decided reluctantly to press ahead with a membership bid of its own.

The Swedish prime minister, Ulf Kristersson, said on Wednesday: "I don't hide the fact that we would have preferred ratification together and hand in hand. But we respect that each country makes its own ratification decision."

The decision complicates Nato defence planning, but the complexity depends on how long Turkey keeps Sweden in the Nato waiting room. Jans Stoltenberg, the Nato secretary general, said he could not consider the circumstances in which Nato would not come to Sweden's defence if attacked by Russia.

Erdoğan has been seeking assurances from Finland and Sweden to eradicate members of the Kurdistan Workers' party (PKK), an organisation designated as terrorist by the European Union. He said there should be "no place for any terror group no matter what their name or aim".

Last June, Finland and Sweden signed a 10-point memorandum with Turkey to address Ankara's security concerns, but its contents were open to interpretation as to what it required the Nordic countries to do to clamp down on Kurdish activists.

In December, Finland loosened its strict embargo on arms exports to Turkey imposed in 2019 after Turkey's attack on northern Syria.

Erdoğan, politically weakened at home before elections in May, may hope that by accepting Finland's application he can show he can cooperate with the west and dispel suggestions that his nationalism has damaged the country economically.

Finland's parliament has already approved joining Nato, but the bill would need to be signed into law by the president within three months, setting a deadline on how long it needs to wait.

Hungary's president, Viktor Orbán, has repeatedly delayed approving Sweden and Finland's membership, accusing both countries of spreading lies about the state of democracy and the independence of the judiciary in his country. Hungary is looking for EU funds to be unlocked, but Orbán may not relish being the last country blocking Nato's expansion and his officials have indicated that parliament will discuss the issue on Monday. Orban met Erdoğan on Thursday.

US officials believe Turkey has been trying to use its Nato veto power as a bargaining chip to extract extraneous concessions, including that the US Senate lift its objections to the sale of F-16 jets. US senators, sensing that Erdoğan may be heading for defeat in the elections and eager to see a new, more cooperative president in his place, are not willing to grant Erdoğan any pre-election favours.

[Threviel]

Who would have thought that decades of anti-Turkish/pro-PKK politics in Sweden would have consequences... 

We ought to line up every Prime Minister since Carlsson and, well, give them a stern talking to, perhaps an angry glare.

[grumbler]

Who would have thought that decades of anti-Turkish/pro-PKK politics in Sweden would have consequences... 

We ought to line up every Prime Minister since Carlsson and, well, give them a stern talking to, perhaps an angry glare.

Indeed. Imagine the folly of allowing free speech that irritates foreign dictators!   Swedes everywhere should hang their heads.  And then hang the Kurds.