The Rowling vs. Trans People Hijack

[Admiral Yi]

hardly. I'm identifying that there are raging loons "defending" trans rights for their own nefarious reasons.

So presumably there are people defending trans rights who you consider to not be loons.

[Josquius]

No, the tweet you linked to was before the Tribunal hearing had taken place (the  Tribunal action was in relation to both her Chambers and Stonewell).

And the CEO did indeed liken the expression of gender critical views to anti-semitism

I don't see the issue here.

And again. Shows the bad faith of these groups that they're both "gender critical" yet really keen on pushing strict distinctions between gender and sex.

I am focusing on it because that is the one you presented.  If you know of something she has said which earns the term terf you are using, please show us what it is.

That's neither possible (it's not any one tweet which did it) nor of interest to me.

So basically, you have spent pages on a diatribe, but you can't actually show us any factual basis for your diatribe. Wonderful just wonderful.

What diatribe?
And I've posted a facts based summary which seems reasonable to me.

[crazy canuck]

No, the tweet you linked to was before the Tribunal hearing had taken place (the  Tribunal action was in relation to both her Chambers and Stonewell).

And the CEO did indeed liken the expression of gender critical views to anti-semitism

I don't see the issue here.

And again. Shows the bad faith of these groups that they're both "gender critical" yet really keen on pushing strict distinctions between gender and sex.

I am focusing on it because that is the one you presented.  If you know of something she has said which earns the term terf you are using, please show us what it is.

That's neither possible (it's not any one tweet which did it) nor of interest to me.

So basically, you have spent pages on a diatribe, but you can't actually show us any factual basis for your diatribe. Wonderful just wonderful.

What diatribe?
And I've posted a facts based summary which seems reasonable to me.

Posting facts is different from posting about a characterization.  You have been doing the latter not the former.

To be blunt, you have simply been repeating the accusations that have been made against her, but you seem to have no idea why those allegations might be accurate.

You have been asked many times for examples which demonstrate her transphobia.  But all there appears to be is a narrative that she is a transphobe which is endlessly repeated.

[Sheilbh]

I'd add that it is difficult in the UK to claim that Rowling is transphobic, because she is very liberal in her use of libel lawyers.

Pink News is a campaigning media company - but if you look at the article they are very cautious in how they frame and describe Rowling's comments. Unsure if that's unhelpful/impacting accuracy or the care that you should take before accusing anyone of being a bigot.

So one of the reasons you may struggle to find people explaining why Rowling is transphobic - is that in the UK she will sue. American media might have better because they are freer with the term and unfettered by our libel laws.

[crazy canuck]

I'd add that it is difficult in the UK to claim that Rowling is transphobic, because she is very liberal in her use of libel lawyers.

Pink News is a campaigning media company - but if you look at the article they are very cautious in how they frame and describe Rowling's comments. Unsure if that's unhelpful/impacting accuracy or the care that you should take before accusing anyone of being a bigot.

So one of the reasons you may struggle to find people explaining why Rowling is transphobic - is that in the UK she will sue. American media might have better because they are freer with the term and unfettered by our libel laws.

I am not asking for evidence that others have accused her of being transphobic - that happens every day on the internet.  I am asking for the opposite, evidence of something she has actually said from which one could reasonably conclude she is transphobic.

[Barrister]

OK, so I skirted around it, but in general I think JK Rowlings views on trans and gender are largely ones I agree with.  I think she's chosen her words poorly a couple of times, I don't my views line up with hers 100%, and there's certainly room for legitimate debate on a lot of these issues.

What gets me about the issue is how it's mostly "guilt by association" kind of stuff.

On the wokest left, one must shun Rowling not so much for what she's actually said, but because her words might give comfort and support to actual transphobes.  And one must not just personally denounce Rowling, but must boycott anything related to Harry Potter even where the only connection to Rowling is the original IP itself.

And of course yes this dynamic exists on the right also - say anything positive about gay people or trans people and suddenly you're a groomer and a paedophile.

[Josquius]

OK, so I skirted around it, but in general I think JK Rowlings views on trans and gender are largely ones I agree with.  I think she's chosen her words poorly a couple of times, I don't my views line up with hers 100%, and there's certainly room for legitimate debate on a lot of these issues.

What gets me about the issue is how it's mostly "guilt by association" kind of stuff.

Guilt by association isn't a totally invalid concept.
Bill Gates met Weinstein that one time- meaningless.
Ted Cruz likes a pornstar on twitter- LOL. But fingers do slip.
Rowling repeatedly actively promotes and donates to transphobic causes- eh......yeah.....there's a bit more to that.

Posting facts is different from posting about a characterization.  You have been doing the latter not the former.

To be blunt, you have simply been repeating the accusations that have been made against her, but you seem to have no idea why those allegations might be accurate.

You have been asked many times for examples which demonstrate her transphobia.  But all there appears to be is a narrative that she is a transphobe which is endlessly repeated.

And I've posted links to why. Which it seems some people aren't keen to read as they'd rather have a pointless shouting match over individual tweets.

[Legbiter]

Guilt by association isn't a totally invalid concept.

There is no difference between your thinking and witchcraft accusations in some flyblown African village. It's the exact same mental process.

[viper37]

Rowling repeatedly actively promotes and donates to transphobic causes- eh......yeah.....there's a bit more to that.

When did she start doing that, exactly?
Was it before or after she started receiving death threats for insisting a women is a women and not "a person who menstruate" ?

It seems to me her views on bathrooms as some kind of sanctuary for women are somewhat extreme.  But, when she gets accused of transphobia for saying gender is a biological construct, she's not the one going too far.

[viper37]

Usch, started replying yesterday but got dragged away.

There is more to it than the 3 tweets (one is a pretty lengthy piece rather than just a tweet iirc?) in the article. For instance this.
https://twitter.com/setoacnna/status/1518647598063706114

So supporting a black lesbian barrister in her claim for unlawful dismissal for being sacked for transphobia is in itself transphobic. (The barrister won, by the way, with the Tribunal finding that she wasn't transphobic).

No, believing 'sexual racism' is a thing and claiming somebody claimed it when they didnt and donating money into turning an employment tribunal into a culture war battle, as part of a pattern of behaviour, is  what gets her marked as transphobic.

Do we apply this elsewhere? If X is accused or racism, and you day that X is not racist does that mean you must also be a racist? 

Thats odd logic,.

This is the defense lawyer's page:
https://womansplaceuk.org/2020/06/27/i-am-suing-stonewall-stop-policing-free-speech/


This is the page she referenced where she learnt what was a TERF:
https://terfisaslur.com/


And apparently, questioning this made her a TERF herself.

As Gupta said, she won her case, the tribunal judge her speech not transphobic and she was unlawfully sacked.

JKR helped her get funds to defend her cause.  Like many celebrities do with many causes.  You call it culture war.  Your tribunals call it free speech.

That is still not transphobia from JKR.

[Admiral Yi]

Is terf an acronym?  Google is failing me.

[Jacob]

Trans Exclusive Radical Feminist

[Admiral Yi]

obrigado

[viper37]

Quelle prison pour les détenues trans ?

What prison for trans prisoners?

It's about Canada, and a famous Nova Scotia case where a sexual abuser became trans after his condemnation.

Apparently the UK has a special wing in prison for trans prisoners.  It seems like a reasonable compromise.

[Admiral Yi]

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=uhldmplWgC4

Trans woman being processed in Las Vegas jail.  Segment starts at 10:22.