Russo-Ukrainian War 2014-23 and Invasion

[Zoupa]

Statement from russian MoD:



Sigh.

[Sheilbh]

They could just meet in Airforce One, right?

Yes. Not sure about the optics of that though - seems a little too on the nose.

Warsaw telling everyone to calm down while they verify situation and stop sharing unconfirmed reports

Right response as they need to work out what happened properly.

[Tamas]

I guess that, if necessary, a tablet can be produced at a second's notice. In any case I can assume that the guys on computers are sitting in a room next door checking whatever needs to be checked.

Also I could be wrong but I feel like it might be fairly normal for very secure/sensitive meetings like this?

I'm sure there could be secure tablets or computers for meetings like this.

I guess you're right, at the pic you don't even see a mobile phone at the table.

Probably, although about 10 years ago (or maybe a bit less) I remember Orban proudly showing he is not using a computer for work - paper-based only.

[The Larch]

Probably, although about 10 years ago (or maybe a bit less) I remember Orban proudly showing he is not using a computer for work - paper-based only.

That's what aides and assistants are for. 

[Crazy_Ivan80]

Statement from russian MoD:



Sigh.

what do you expect?
A russian (politician) opens his mouth, a lie is born

-------

that said:
there's been rumours of UAF operations on the other side of the Dniepr, more specifically on that small peninsula sticking out below Mikolayev (sp)

[Sheilbh]

Probably, although about 10 years ago (or maybe a bit less) I remember Orban proudly showing he is not using a computer for work - paper-based only.

That's what aides and assistants are for. 

This but unironically.

That's the argument Blair's made. When he was PM he never had a phone or a computer and recommends that leaders don't. Partly for security reasons but his argument was basically that a political leader's most precious commodities are time and attention - and we're not very good at actually managing that when you're looking at your own emails etc.

I can see what he means in probably any office job - at work I always have to consciously remind myself that I shouln't necessarily be focused on what's immediately there/being chased because that's not always the same as the highest priority/going to take most time.

[Grey Fox]

Let's go!

[The Larch]

That's the argument Blair's made. When he was PM he never had a phone or a computer and recommends that leaders don't. Partly for security reasons but his argument was basically that a political leader's most precious commodities are time and attention - and we're not very good at actually managing that when you're looking at your own emails etc.

Given all the security breaches in the British cabinet due to personal emails and mobile phones, I guess he has a point. 

[Tamas]

Yeah but it sounds like you are guaranteed to build yourself a nice bubble if everything you process is filtered by other people and their own interests.

[Sheilbh]

Given all the security breaches in the British cabinet due to personal emails and mobile phones, I guess he has a point. 

Yeah - it's not just the cabinet either. There's loads of reports of civil service and SpAds plus normal MPs using private phones for work business - partly because secure phones from the British government just don't have as good messaging apps etc that people are used to now (and so much of British politics happens on WhatsApp ), but I suspect also out of a (mistaken) belief that freedom of information doesn't apply to personal phones.

They get the training from GCHQ but there's not much you can do if they just tit around

Yeah but it sounds like you are guaranteed to build yourself a nice bubble if anything you process is filtered by other people and their own interests.

It's not necessarily about information though - I really, honest to God hope senior politicians aren't off "doing their research"

Plus only the really difficult stuff should ever reach a politician - everything else should have been decided by civil servants/advisors way below them which I suspect is another reason to keep off the emails.

[The Larch]

Yeah but it sounds like you are guaranteed to build yourself a nice bubble if anything you process is filtered by other people and their own interests.

That's always going to be the case with politicians in high places, whoever wants direct contact with them has to jump through hoops (aides, secretaries, chiefs of staff...) before actually talking to the politician itself. Which politician can be contacted directly with no hurdles?

[Josquius]

Probably, although about 10 years ago (or maybe a bit less) I remember Orban proudly showing he is not using a computer for work - paper-based only.

That's what aides and assistants are for. 

This but unironically.

That's the argument Blair's made. When he was PM he never had a phone or a computer and recommends that leaders don't. Partly for security reasons but his argument was basically that a political leader's most precious commodities are time and attention - and we're not very good at actually managing that when you're looking at your own emails etc.

I can see what he means in probably any office job - at work I always have to consciously remind myself that I shouln't necessarily be focused on what's immediately there/being chased because that's not always the same as the highest priority/going to take most time.

Yet another reason I could never be a politician.
Truly a life not worth living.

[Tamas]

Unofficial but apparently Article 4 has been invoked to get a NATO meeting together tomorrow.

[Josquius]

I wonder whether putting in place nato missile defences covering Poland and the baltics as well as a a large chunk of Ukraine (just for natos protection obviously. I mean there's no war in Ukraine and the Ukraine government don't object so that's cool right?) could be a good proportionate response here?

[Zoupa]

Just fyi, but Russia shot down a passenger jet full of Europeans in 2014 and absolutely nothing happened. Let's not get our hopes up.