TV/Movies Megathread

[The Larch]

I really do not understand why things like the Wheel of Time and Lord of the Rings have such mediocre writing.

It isn't money, right? These things have absolutely insane budgets. Surely paying the best writers is no obstacle.

RoP had two novice showrunners, but Amazon surrounded them with veterans from good shows. So yeah, money is not a problem.

My personal theory is that stuff like RoP or Wheel of Time are very action-adventure oriented, and we really don't have many examples of this kind of show working on TV. Not saying that it can't be done, just that it's a relatively new genre (the Marvel and Star Wars shows are in the same category, and they have been wildly uneven). GoT had a very strong drama foundation which is something that TV has done very well for many years. It is very character-centric.

I guess that Martin's background as a former TV writer also helps?

[Jacob]

RoP had two novice showrunners, but Amazon surrounded them with veterans from good shows. So yeah, money is not a problem.

My personal theory is that stuff like RoP or Wheel of Time are very action-adventure oriented, and we really don't have many examples of this kind of show working on TV. Not saying that it can't be done, just that it's a relatively new genre (the Marvel and Star Wars shows are in the same category, and they have been wildly uneven). GoT had a very strong drama foundation which is something that TV has done very well for many years. It is very character-centric.

My theory:

Film/ TV does really well in terms of writing if:

1) There's a strong auteur/ visionary who also has the power to implement that vision; or if

2) There's a strong body of successful works in that genre that the writing group & executives (and who ever else interferes with the script) can refer to as they decide what to emulate, what to avoid, and what to deliberately diverge from (which is a large part of the creative process IMO).

I think fantasy TV (and to a lesser extent film) lacks 2). I'm guessing 1) was also absent.

[Habbaku]

I guess that Martin's background as a former TV writer also helps?

Definitely did. Martin has been pretty open about writing A Song of Ice and Fire in large part because he knew he'd never get the budget to do it on TV first.

[Barrister]

Yeah I feel like a lot of the best, most talked-about moments of GoT came right from Martin's books, and the show appeared to come off the rails once they passed the end of the books (despite getting Martin's guidance on the story).

Not that the GoT showrunners weren't quite capable, and the series had a healthy budget, but it wouldn't have been the same if Benioff and Weiss were trying to create an original fantasy TV series.

[crazy canuck]

Yeah I feel like a lot of the best, most talked-about moments of GoT came right from Martin's books, and the show appeared to come off the rails once they passed the end of the books (despite getting Martin's guidance on the story).

Not that the GoT showrunners weren't quite capable, and the series had a healthy budget, but it wouldn't have been the same if Benioff and Weiss were trying to create an original fantasy TV series.

Exactly.

The Wheel of Time was difficult for the TV writers to adapt.  The book would go on for (some would say endlessly) chapters to developing themes and context.  Hard to do in a TV series.  Also, the dialogue in the books was not exactly pithy. 

Much easier to cut and paste from the dialogue in the Martin books. 

[Sheilbh]

Yeah I think fantasy books as a genre are prone to bloat. They tend to be a bit overambitious in initial scope. But no TV adaptation is going to be planned on the basis of 20+ seasons and the actors, writers etc attached will be a bit more like normal prestige TV and want to move on after a few seasons and 5-6 is probably pushing at the limits.

That means you need to make shortcuts and choices around whole sections which might make it less coherent as a whole unless you're really good/clever/lucky.

[Darth Wagtaros]

I really do not understand why things like the Wheel of Time and Lord of the Rings have such mediocre writing.

It isn't money, right? These things have absolutely insane budgets. Surely paying the best writers is no obstacle.

RoP had two novice showrunners, but Amazon surrounded them with veterans from good shows. So yeah, money is not a problem.

My personal theory is that stuff like RoP or Wheel of Time are very action-adventure oriented, and we really don't have many examples of this kind of show working on TV. Not saying that it can't be done, just that it's a relatively new genre (the Marvel and Star Wars shows are in the same category, and they have been wildly uneven). GoT had a very strong drama foundation which is something that TV has done very well for many years. It is very character-centric.

I think we are in a time where writers think that the way to make interesting complex characters is to write them either as victims or as shitpots.  Looking at Wheel of Time, Matt who was mischievous is now miserable with abusive parents. Parren who was stolid but amiable has rage issues, etc.  

There was the Superman movies where he spent a lot of it suffering some sort of existential angst and wondering if he should let a busload of people die so he doesn't reveal himself.  Yes, the rationale could make for some interesting questions but it doesn't always translate to something watchable.   

[Duque de Bragança]

Dagon is awful. Not a fan of Re-Animator either. Just never got into Stuart Gordon, really. Too schlocky.

Dagon was made pretty close to where I live. 

And yes, it's quite bad, to think that it was Paco Rabal's last film...

Those films only take Lovecraft as an excuse for gore and schlock, not really faithful adaptations.

I would not lump all Re-Animator movies with such broad strokes ; third felt really tired at times.
They are not mainstream movies of course but I remark the excuse for gore was used for Carpenter's the Thing back in 1982.

[celedhring]

Yeah, but Carpenter backed up the gore and rubber creepers with tons of directing talent. The Thing is a horror masterpiece.

[Duque de Bragança]

I said it was an excuse, a poor one that is.
And yes, Carpenter was at the top of his game in 1982 but the Thing was a huge failure back then, something hard to understand nowadays.

Still, Carpenter being a better director does not make necessarily other movies schlocky gore (maybe Rollin's but he did not adapt Lovecraft).
Not to mention Bottin's great sfx, Morricone and Carpenter's music, a huge budget for a monster movie, biggest one back then, afforded by a Universal production. Kurt Russell and other actors etc.

I'll take the B-movie adaptation such as Re-Animator (Dagon I have to rewatch it was so long ago) any time over the spoon fed crap you indulge in streaming e.g LOTR (series) whatever Star Wars cow milking by Disney.
Re-Animator is pretty well considered these days, albeit not being a genre masterpiece such as the Thing.
Not to mention I suspect the Castilian dubs for Re-Animator did not help. I remember laughing at Romero's Day of the Dead given its ineptness and that's after being exposed to not particularly good dubs in France.
Or it could be you are not into Stuart Gordon, as you said.

PS: actually, the problem may be Brian Yuzna's direction for the inferior sequels. :hmm

[celedhring]

Not to mention I suspect the Castilian dubs for Re-Animator did not help. I remember laughing at Romero's Day of the Dead given its ineptness and that's after being exposed to not particularly good dubs in France.
Or it could be you are not into Stuart Gordon, as you said.

PS: actually, the problem may be Brian Yuzna's direction for the inferior sequels. :hmm

I don't think I ever watched the Spanish dub of Re-Animator, tbf. I'm a film major, I'll get my degree rescinded if I watch Spanish dubs.

But yeah, I've never got into Yuzna/Gordon, although I've watched tons of their films because they were hugely popular among Spanish college students in the 1990s - there's a reason they both moved to Spain to make films in their late careers. Heck, I even worked in the promotion of "Faust".
 

[Tamas]

This new Netflix version of All Quiet on the Western Front is really, really bad.

[Josephus]

This new Netflix version of All Quiet on the Western Front is really, really bad.

Really? Was kinda looking forward to it. 

[Tamas]

This new Netflix version of All Quiet on the Western Front is really, really bad.

Really? Was kinda looking forward to it. 

I am not sure when is it worse: if you have read the novel or not.

For example a lot of the book is explaining trench life in particular during some prolonged Entente artillery strike they endure for days, with some people eventually breaking under the strain etc.

This is how that "introduce viewer to trench war" bit goes: main characters, movie skip from being enlisted to riding trucks toward the front.

Truck is needed by doctor behind the lines so they march the last stretch.

When the ly arrive to the trench it is raining heavily, they are made to shovel water out with helmets. Nerd with glasses already breaks down in crying.

Enemy artillery barrage begins they run into bunker. The panic scene that happened in the book after 4 days of bombardment here happens after around 15 seconds. Bunker collapses on main guy but survives.

And that's it.

From there we fast forward to 7th November 1918,and the movie switches between scenes of cardboard cutout evil proto nazi general and the politician trying to make peace with the French, and the main cast going through different adventures, most of which took inspiration from the book but piled on each other with little to no cohesion, like a fever dream, but that bit isn't intentional.

Then they kill the main guy by having proto nazi general order an attack on some random French Town nearby ("it WILL be part of Germany!") to the troops on the yard of his HQ, and the guy surviving a vicious combat scene so he can be back to a trench to have the death scene from the book minus the drawing.

I can't understand how Germans could butcher and shit on such a great novel of theirs.

[The Brain]

How to put this... Germans are not to be trusted when it comes to world wars.