Russo-Ukrainian War 2014-23 and Invasion

[Crazy_Ivan80]

@threviel: what I heard is that most bridges were degraded to the extent that heavy equipement can't cross it anymore, but people can. Basically forcing the Russians to retreat with just what they can carry. Part of the Russian lend-lease program to strengthen the Ukrainian army

[Barrister]

Interesting.  Now that the Ukrainians are on the offensive they've adopted the "write a symbol on your vehicles to help identify friend or foe".

Instead of a "Z" or an "O", they're using a "+".

And they're using that + on a lot of repurposed civilian vehicles as well.

Is this something western militaries do as well?  Or is it a soviet thing?

[DGuller]

Normally in battle you aren't after a total annihilation of the enemy but their retreat. If the Ukrainians want the Russians out of Kherson they should leave them an avenue of retreat. Make it a bad avenue forcing them to do a Falaise pocket retreat if possible, but still a retreat. That way they achieve their objectives with minimal loss of Ukrainian lives. A cornered enemy with no avenue of retreat is simply forced to fight it out and that's a lot costlier.

It looks like this is not what they are doing, they have himarsed every bridge and every way out. The Russians have no choice but to fight it out or retreat. Possibly much more expensive in terms of Ukrainian lives for what is essentially the same result. Remember, there are no supplies coming for trapped Ukrainian civilians either.

On the other hand, if the Russians surrender it's probably game over for the Russians.

Total annihilation of the enemy wins you other battles, or maybe even converts future battles into uncontested takeover.  Ukraine doesn't just need to win the battle, they need to win the war, and the best way to do it is to shock Russia into ending it.

[DGuller]

Interesting.  Now that the Ukrainians are on the offensive they've adopted the "write a symbol on your vehicles to help identify friend or foe".

Instead of a "Z" or an "O", they're using a "+".

And they're using that + on a lot of repurposed civilian vehicles as well.

Is this something western militaries do as well?  Or is it a soviet thing?

I imagine the western militaries aren't using essentially the same equipment or the same uniforms as their enemy, so letters and colored bands become necessary.  I think the US military would know whether the other guys are them or the Taliban fighters even without letters or colored armbands.

[Malthus]

Normally in battle you aren't after a total annihilation of the enemy but their retreat. If the Ukrainians want the Russians out of Kherson they should leave them an avenue of retreat. Make it a bad avenue forcing them to do a Falaise pocket retreat if possible, but still a retreat. That way they achieve their objectives with minimal loss of Ukrainian lives. A cornered enemy with no avenue of retreat is simply forced to fight it out and that's a lot costlier.

It looks like this is not what they are doing, they have himarsed every bridge and every way out. The Russians have no choice but to fight it out or retreat. Possibly much more expensive in terms of Ukrainian lives for what is essentially the same result. Remember, there are no supplies coming for trapped Ukrainian civilians either.

On the other hand, if the Russians surrender it's probably game over for the Russians.

Doesn't this depend on the perception of how POWs are going to be treated?

In Mariopol, the Ukrainians held out for a very long time - but this was against Russians who openly talked about how they were all criminals and Nazis, and were going to be tried as such.

Promise decent treatment, and you may get less of a desperate last stand.

[Zoupa]

Mass surrenders in Kherson oblast. 10-15k. Unconfirmed so far, but if true, pretty much game over...

The next few weeks are going to be hairy.

[The Larch]

Apparently the Russian General Staff is suspending sending any new units into Ukraine. Change of strategy incoming?

[Threviel]

Fucking glorious, Ukraine is doing the borderline impossible. Ignore my obsolete post.

[DGuller]

Apparently the Russian General Staff is suspending sending any new units into Ukraine. Change of strategy incoming?

Did Putin approve of this discussion?  Or was he even asked about it?

[Sheilbh]

Apparently the Russian General Staff is suspending sending any new units into Ukraine. Change of strategy incoming?

Did Putin approve of this discussion?  Or was he even asked about it?

If the report that he's in his dacha in Sochi are true maybe that's all a bit Gorbachev?

[Berkut]

Not sure how many Languish users are on Twitter, but if you are you've probably come across the Fellas/NAFO. I've been a member since June and wanted to share my little dude:



And for those who don't know about NAFO:

https://www.politico.eu/article/nafo-doge-shiba-russia-putin-ukraine-twitter-trolling-social-media-meme/

"The shit-posting, Twitter-trolling, dog-deploying social media army taking on Putin one meme at a time."

That is awesome in so many ways.

[Malthus]

These rumours sound ... almost too good.

Sources?

[Malthus]

Apparently the Russian General Staff is suspending sending any new units into Ukraine. Change of strategy incoming?

Did Putin approve of this discussion?  Or was he even asked about it?

If the report that he's in his dacha in Sochi are true maybe that's all a bit Gorbachev?

Was thinking of Stalin's reaction on hearing about Barbarossa.

[Barrister]

Apparently the Russian General Staff is suspending sending any new units into Ukraine. Change of strategy incoming?

Or is it just that so many soldiers were refusing to deploy the units couldn't meaningfully be sent anyways?


Any source on those surrenders actually happening?

[PDH]

Nothing official yet.  I will gladly be wrong if it happens today.