Russo-Ukrainian War 2014-23 and Invasion

[Berkut]

Based on Russian form they'll blow up the grain shipments on accident in transit. But we'll see.

FYP

[The Minsky Moment]

Based on Russian form they'll blow up the grain shipments on accident in transit. But we'll see.

FYP

Lies

The shipments were blown up by fascist terrorists disguised in Russian uniforms and using fake Russian warships that were deviously designed to look exactly like the originals.

[Zoupa]

I'm rereading The Eastern Front from Norman Stone, and it is absolutely crazy how nothing 8n the way the Russians go to war seems to have changed in over 100 years.

Shitty logistics and shitty training. Graft. Corruption. Non ethnic russians sent as cannon fodder.

[grumbler]

I'm rereading The Eastern Front from Norman Stone, and it is absolutely crazy how nothing 8n the way the Russians go to war seems to have changed in over 100 years.

Shitty logistics and shitty training. Graft. Corruption. Non ethnic russians sent as cannon fodder.

Dunno. The incredible heroism of the typical Russian WW2 soldier (when actually operating under orders) seems missing in Ukraine.

[Zoupa]

Not sure if serious...

[grumbler]

Not sure if serious...

A bit of reading relevant history will clear that up for you.

[viper37]

I'm rereading The Eastern Front from Norman Stone, and it is absolutely crazy how nothing 8n the way the Russians go to war seems to have changed in over 100 years.

Shitty logistics and shitty training. Graft. Corruption. Non ethnic russians sent as cannon fodder.

Dunno. The incredible heroism of the typical Russian WW2 soldier (when actually operating under orders) seems missing in Ukraine.

well, the non heroic ones were shot as soon as they turned back, so, I guess that was true...

Did any WWII army truly lacked courage in this war?

How do you view the average Russian WW2 soldier as more heroic than other soldiers, Allied or Axis, fighting in this war, to qualify their heroism as incredible?

[Zoupa]

Sure buddy.

Not sure if serious...

A bit of reading relevant history will clear that up for you.

Right back at you.

[Valmy]

Dunno. The incredible heroism of the typical Russian WW2 soldier (when actually operating under orders) seems missing in Ukraine.

Well the Ukrainians are not invading Russia committing horrendous genocidal warcrimes. Also, as bad as Putin is he is no Stalin.

The German generals in WWI were well aware that the Russian soldier was a different animal once you were fighting on the soil of Mother Russia.

Speaking of which these similar kinds of problems existed in WWI and in the Crimean War. The Russians showed incredibly heroism in those wars as well. But in the 21st century is heroic bravery really what wins wars? I am no military expert so I couldn't say exactly but so much of it seems about your gear and your tech. The problems to fighting effectiveness caused by graft and incompetence would seem to get much bigger as we move forward in time.

[grumbler]

How do you view the average Russian WW2 soldier as more heroic than other soldiers, Allied or Axis, fighting in this war, to qualify their heroism as incredible?

Because Russian soldiers were willing, e.g. to build their covered foxholes facing the rear, so as to be able to shoot the Germans in the back after they over-ran the main positions.  It was a death sentence to do so, because as soon as the Germans realized where they were they could sneak up in the Russians' blind spots and toss in a grenade.  They did it anyway, knowing they would die.  I think that only the Japanese had that kind of battlefield heroism (and they misused it as much as the Soviets did).

Read about the grain elevator at Stalingrad.  The Germans got kinda panicky as they realized that the Russians weren't responding to overwhelming force as the Germans thought any normal soldiers would.  Around 160 Russian soldiers bogged down a German division-equivalent for three and a half days.

[grumbler]

Sure buddy.

Not sure if serious...

A bit of reading relevant history will clear that up for you.

Right back at you.

Except that I am not the one who is not sure, here.  You are.  Your uncertainty is the result of ignorance, which can easily be cured.

[viper37]

How do you view the average Russian WW2 soldier as more heroic than other soldiers, Allied or Axis, fighting in this war, to qualify their heroism as incredible?

Because Russian soldiers were willing, e.g. to build their covered foxholes facing the rear, so as to be able to shoot the Germans in the back after they over-ran the main positions.  It was a death sentence to do so, because as soon as the Germans realized where they were they could sneak up in the Russians' blind spots and toss in a grenade.  They did it anyway, knowing they would die.  I think that only the Japanese had that kind of battlefield heroism (and they misused it as much as the Soviets did).

I'm not sure that is heroism properly speaking.  It seems like a Stalingrad situation, charging the enemy with an empty gun or with only the ammo and picking up whatever you need from the body of your fallen comrades.

It wasn't exactly willingly.  It's either do it or you'll be shot by the Commissar.

Read about the grain elevator at Stalingrad.  The Germans got kinda panicky as they realized that the Russians weren't responding to overwhelming force as the Germans thought any normal soldiers would.  Around 160 Russian soldiers bogged down a German division-equivalent for three and a half days.

I am not denying there were acts of heroism.  But we could find such acts in many armies of WWII.

[grumbler]

I'm not sure that is heroism properly speaking.  It seems like a Stalingrad situation, charging the enemy with an empty gun or with only the ammo and picking up whatever you need from the body of your fallen comrades.


It wasn't exactly willingly.  It's either do it or you'll be shot by the Commissar.

You are describing a scene from a fictional movie.  That sort of thing didn't happen in the real Battle of Stalingrad. Late 1941, maybe.  But, by the Fall of 1942 Soviet small arms were not in short supply.

I am not denying there were acts of heroism.  But we could find such acts in many armies of WWII.

Be my guest.  Make sure it's an act that even the enemy is awed by.

[11B4V]

I'm rereading The Eastern Front from Norman Stone, and it is absolutely crazy how nothing 8n the way the Russians go to war seems to have changed in over 100 years.

Shitty logistics and shitty training. Graft. Corruption. Non ethnic russians sent as cannon fodder.

 

[Zoupa]

Sure buddy.

Not sure if serious...

A bit of reading relevant history will clear that up for you.

Right back at you.

Except that I am not the one who is not sure, here.  You are.  Your uncertainty is the result of ignorance, which can easily be cured.

Sure buddy.