Elon Musk: Always A Douche

[Razgovory]

The evidence that Kaepernick got cut because he took a knee is not overwhelming.  He had already lost his starting job IIRC, and plenty of guys kept taking the knee after he got cut and continued to play.

The Dixie Chicks got cancelled from country and western stations but kept on playing to indie crowds afterwards.  They showed up in O Brother Where Art Thou after that.

That movie was made in 2000.

[crazy canuck]

That cartoon is a good illustration of just how far hard right US and increasingly Canadian right wing politics have become.

[Berkut]

It's amazing how hard people will work to not understand something they don't want to understand.

The cartoon is not trying to say something about the right, it is saying something about the left. That can be true even while the right has ran off into crazy land itself (and then kept right on going).

[Berkut]

More "brilliant" political takes by Musk:

Jesus. Its literally the complete opposite of the truth.
The sad thing is you often get fascy types who seeriously believe this.
I checked twitter just to see and thankfully the top reply lays down the facts:

The cartoon is not talking about congress though. At least, it isn't necessarily talking about Congress.

Nor is the point of the cartoon the right, but rather why people in the middle are being vilified by the left. The cartoon is not about the guy standing there - it is about the left wing calling people bigots.

The right can in fact be as absolutely fucked up as everyone here believes it to be - that doesn't make the point of the cartoon somehow invalid. Just because the right is REALLY REALLY fucked up doesn't mean anything the left does must be ok. Like calling people bigots for not agreeing with every absurd detail of left wing culture warriors.

[Grey Fox]

It's amazing how hard people will work to not understand something they don't want to understand.

The cartoon is not trying to say something about the right, it is saying something about the left. That can be true even while the right has ran off into crazy land itself (and then kept right on going).

Yes, a lie. That's what it is saying. A lie.

[Eddie Teach]

How can it be a lie when the description is entirely subjective?

[Josquius]

The cartoon is not talking about congress though. At least, it isn't necessarily talking about Congress.

Nor is the point of the cartoon the right, but rather why people in the middle are being vilified by the left. The cartoon is not about the guy standing there - it is about the left wing calling people bigots.

The right can in fact be as absolutely fucked up as everyone here believes it to be - that doesn't make the point of the cartoon somehow invalid. Just because the right is REALLY REALLY fucked up doesn't mean anything the left does must be ok. Like calling people bigots for not agreeing with every absurd detail of left wing culture warriors.

Speaking as someone on the left... most of us don't vilify the centre.
Some do of course.
But as many as you get on the right? Not really.
As many in position of power as you get in positions of the power on the right? Fuck no.

As I've said before "You just call everyone who disagrees with you a nazi!!!11" is something I see far more than anyone actually displaying this behaviour. I have had more than a few interactions with fascy sorts however who try to defend their views with "Its not actually that right wing. Its just the world is so crazily left these days"- their world presumably being Mars.

The cartoon is attacking the left whilst defending the right at the same time. It would be easy enough to change it to make the point you want of the far left not being helpful when the right is getting crazy, but thats not what its saying.

[Barrister]

On the Musk cartoon:

First of all I absolutely feel this way as someone who always identified as right-wing.  I believe all the same things I sued to believe in: importance of tradition, self-reliance, family, cautious of government over-reach.  But even removed from the US/Trumpy perspective, suddenly right-wingers in this country are embracing crypto-currency, ridiculous covid conspiracies, and abject hatred of government.


But I've heard the same sentiment expressed by those who identified as left-wing.  Whereas before it was left-wing to support gay marriage, now you have to support giving cross-sex hormones to children.  Before you didn't judge people by the colour of their skin, now that's the important way to identify.  Before you might want more government help for the less fortunate, now suddenly full-on government ownership of the means of production is being discussed.


For lack of a better target I blame social media.  But there's definitely something weird going on in our political discourse these days.

[Sheilbh]

It's not what Musk is talking about - but the whole "centrist dad" abusing, Novara side of the left dished out a lot of abuse to people on the centre left in support of Corbyn's leadership.

It was also broadly endorsed by his leadership team who listed their MPs into "core group", "core group plus", "neutral but not hostile", "core group negative" and "hostile group". They were actively trying to make life very difficult/uncomfortable for centre left MPs and activists in local parties so they could replace them.

It may be more of a thing with the hard left in this country but the left can be a pretty hostile place to be. And it's always been that way - it's sort of the joke in Life of Brian. But even if you go back to Tony Benn's deputy leadership run it was marked by the left diruptinig events and being really aggressive.

It isn't aimed at the centre, but I think the whole spitting on delegates to the Tory conference, "Tory scum", "lower than vermin", "never kissed a Tory" stuff is not great and I think it has an impact on people in the centre.

[DGuller]

I think your perceptions about left and right moving away from you depend a whole lot on the company you keep.  If you hang around with mostly left-wing people, and identify as left wing, then you're more perceptive to how they're becoming more extreme.

This is definitely the case for me.  I don't hang around with right wing people, or at least the ones I hang around with don't talk politics.  Intellectually I understand how far off the deep end they went, but I don't see individual people that I used to respect now sound crazy and detached from reality.  The few times I do, I am shocked, but that happens rarely. 

What happens much more often is seeing previously rational left-wingers go all woke commissar and lose all sense of reason, where the original good cause they were fighting for has long been lost in zeal and groupthink.  That I get to experience personally much more often.  Therefore, it may be a fact that the right wing went more right than the left wing went more left, which this cartoon doesn't represent at all, but it's nevertheless understandable to focus on how the left wing is departing from you.  The closer the objects are to you, the easier it is to spot them moving away from you.

[crazy canuck]

It's amazing how hard people will work to not understand something they don't want to understand.

The cartoon is not trying to say something about the right, it is saying something about the left. That can be true even while the right has ran off into crazy land itself (and then kept right on going).

Yes, a lie. That's what it is saying. A lie.

Berkut is just performing a parody.  He did not mean to be taken seriously - obviously.

[crazy canuck]

It's not what Musk is talking about - but the whole "centrist dad" abusing, Novara side of the left dished out a lot of abuse to people on the centre left in support of Corbyn's leadership.

It was also broadly endorsed by his leadership team who listed their MPs into "core group", "core group plus", "neutral but not hostile", "core group negative" and "hostile group". They were actively trying to make life very difficult/uncomfortable for centre left MPs and activists in local parties so they could replace them.

It may be more of a thing with the hard left in this country but the left can be a pretty hostile place to be. And it's always been that way - it's sort of the joke in Life of Brian. But even if you go back to Tony Benn's deputy leadership run it was marked by the left diruptinig events and being really aggressive.

It isn't aimed at the centre, but I think the whole spitting on delegates to the Tory conference, "Tory scum", "lower than vermin", "never kissed a Tory" stuff is not great and I think it has an impact on people in the centre.

You should move to Canada 

[Berkut]

It's amazing how hard people will work to not understand something they don't want to understand.

The cartoon is not trying to say something about the right, it is saying something about the left. That can be true even while the right has ran off into crazy land itself (and then kept right on going).

Yes, a lie. That's what it is saying. A lie.

Except that it isn't a lie.

It might be a shitty cartoon, that does a bad job of making its point. 

But its point is not a lie. 

It's point might not even be important compared to the point of how fucked up the right is these days. That would be a fair critique.

But it isn't a lie, and it does have a point - if you want to actually understand the message that someone is trying to tell you.

If you just want to be outrage, offended, and call the messenger a lying asshole, well...ironically that is kind of the point as well.

[Berkut]

It's not what Musk is talking about - but the whole "centrist dad" abusing, Novara side of the left dished out a lot of abuse to people on the centre left in support of Corbyn's leadership.
It was also broadly endorsed by his leadership team who listed their MPs into "core group", "core group plus", "neutral but not hostile", "core group negative" and "hostile group". They were actively trying to make life very difficult/uncomfortable for centre left MPs and activists in local parties so they could replace them.
It may be more of a thing with the hard left in this country but the left can be a pretty hostile place to be. And it's always been that way - it's sort of the joke in Life of Brian. But even if you go back to Tony Benn's deputy leadership run it was marked by the left diruptinig events and being really aggressive.
It isn't aimed at the centre, but I think the whole spitting on delegates to the Tory conference, "Tory scum", "lower than vermin", "never kissed a Tory" stuff is not great and I think it has an impact on people in the centre.

You should move to Canada 

Shelf is just performing a parody.  He did not mean to be taken seriously - obviously.
 

[crazy canuck]

It's not what Musk is talking about - but the whole "centrist dad" abusing, Novara side of the left dished out a lot of abuse to people on the centre left in support of Corbyn's leadership.
It was also broadly endorsed by his leadership team who listed their MPs into "core group", "core group plus", "neutral but not hostile", "core group negative" and "hostile group". They were actively trying to make life very difficult/uncomfortable for centre left MPs and activists in local parties so they could replace them.
It may be more of a thing with the hard left in this country but the left can be a pretty hostile place to be. And it's always been that way - it's sort of the joke in Life of Brian. But even if you go back to Tony Benn's deputy leadership run it was marked by the left diruptinig events and being really aggressive.
It isn't aimed at the centre, but I think the whole spitting on delegates to the Tory conference, "Tory scum", "lower than vermin", "never kissed a Tory" stuff is not great and I think it has an impact on people in the centre.

You should move to Canada 

Shelf is just performing a parody.  He did not mean to be taken seriously - obviously.
 

I think most people would realize what he is saying is making sense.

Your posts were comedy gold.  Keep it up.  Highly enjoyable.