Russo-Ukrainian War 2014-23 and Invasion

[celedhring]

Did Ukraine used to buy its weapons only from nonprofits? 

Yeah, I was surprised to see it that low, given their predicament. Then again, it is a very poor country.

[Admiral Yi]

Yeah, I was surprised to see it that low, given their predicament. Then again, it is a very poor country.

I was taking a crack at Squeeze's comment about profit and waste.

[celedhring]

Yeah, I was surprised to see it that low, given their predicament. Then again, it is a very poor country.

I was taking a crack at Squeeze's comment about profit and waste.

Ah, I see.

Ukraine is riddled with corruption, too.

[DGuller]

I wonder why the US military stuff is so much more expensive?  Is it because we're willing to pay much more for marginally better performance, whereas countries like Ukraine don't have the luxury?  Is it higher labor costs?  Is it R&D expenses that aren't removed from per-unit costs even after they're recouped?

[Jacob]

So... some speculation that Putin will use May 9th to escalate and possibly enact general mobilization. Reportedly, internal Russian rhetoric is increasingly casting the war as an existential struggle for Russia vs NATO, as opposed to a local "special operation". I believe this is correct. Putin's shown his hand as an evil actor and an outright enemy, and the West is correctly standing up to him.

The worry, however, is that this will lead to actions that target NATO, leading to what some see as potentially tough decisions - how to respond to Russia hitting targets inside NATO countries, f. ex.? There's a real risk of a potential wider conflagration of this war, it seems.

[Admiral Yi]

I wonder why the US military stuff is so much more expensive?  Is it because we're willing to pay much more for marginally better performance, whereas countries like Ukraine don't have the luxury?  Is it higher labor costs?  Is it R&D expenses that aren't removed from per-unit costs even after they're recouped?

Where are you getting the idea that US stuff is so much more expensive?  We're not just replacing their procurement budget (which I'm willing to bet was pretty small), we're throwing stuff at them they've never had before.

[Richard Hakluyt]

I wonder why the US military stuff is so much more expensive?  Is it because we're willing to pay much more for marginally better performance, whereas countries like Ukraine don't have the luxury?  Is it higher labor costs?  Is it R&D expenses that aren't removed from per-unit costs even after they're recouped?

Like most countries the USA does not like to take casualties, unlike most countries it is rich enough to minimise casualties by spending lots of cash on top-notch gear. My hypothesis anyway.

[celedhring]

I wonder why the US military stuff is so much more expensive?  Is it because we're willing to pay much more for marginally better performance, whereas countries like Ukraine don't have the luxury?  Is it higher labor costs?  Is it R&D expenses that aren't removed from per-unit costs even after they're recouped?

My completely uninformed perception is that yank stuff is overengineered (and they can afford it) for doctrinal reasons. Russians don't care for stuff like crew survival, or using lots of precise munitions because collateral damage is a feature, not a bug.

[Jacob]

Interesting observation I came across - Biden's $33 billion is aimed at having a big impact within the next 5 months, which is before any potential broad mobilization (or total mobilization, even) is likely to be able to have an impact on the actual fighting (due to training & procurement requirements, assuming they can even pull those off).

[Jacob]

My completely uninformed perception is that yank stuff is overengineered (and they can afford it) for doctrinal reasons. Russians don't care for stuff like crew survival, or using lots of precise munitions because collateral damage is a feature, not a bug.

They also have shit logistics and maintenance, which lowers operating costs.

[Tamas]

So... some speculation that Putin will use May 9th to escalate and possibly enact general mobilization. Reportedly, internal Russian rhetoric is increasingly casting the war as an existential struggle for Russia vs NATO, as opposed to a local "special operation". I believe this is correct. Putin's shown his hand as an evil actor and an outright enemy, and the West is correctly standing up to him.

The worry, however, is that this will lead to actions that target NATO, leading to what some see as potentially tough decisions - how to respond to Russia hitting targets inside NATO countries, f. ex.? There's a real risk of a potential wider conflagration of this war, it seems.

https://www.thedailybeast.com/russian-state-tv-vladimir-putin-may-start-a-nuclear-war-but-we-are-ready-to-die

Sounds like the talking heads are building up a suicidal frenzy pushing themselves to global thermonuclear war, hopefully in just an effort to bid over each other in signalling loyalty. But this is very worrying.

[Jacob]

https://www.thedailybeast.com/russian-state-tv-vladimir-putin-may-start-a-nuclear-war-but-we-are-ready-to-die

Sounds like the talking heads are building up a suicidal frenzy pushing themselves to global thermonuclear war, hopefully in just an effort to bid over each other in signalling loyalty. But this is very worrying.

I rate it as "mildly worrying", but yeah.

[Grey Fox]

Wonder how Xi is starting to feel about all this. He's probably not to keen on having Indian nukes in his face because Putin threw a tantrum.

[Crazy_Ivan80]

So... some speculation that Putin will use May 9th to escalate and possibly enact general mobilization. Reportedly, internal Russian rhetoric is increasingly casting the war as an existential struggle for Russia vs NATO, as opposed to a local "special operation". I believe this is correct. Putin's shown his hand as an evil actor and an outright enemy, and the West is correctly standing up to him.

The worry, however, is that this will lead to actions that target NATO, leading to what some see as potentially tough decisions - how to respond to Russia hitting targets inside NATO countries, f. ex.? There's a real risk of a potential wider conflagration of this war, it seems.

yeah, going by what's on the Russian media it seems as if the Russians don't love their children anymore...

[alfred russel]

Interesting observation I came across - Biden's $33 billion is aimed at having a big impact within the next 5 months, which is before any potential broad mobilization (or total mobilization, even) is likely to be able to have an impact on the actual fighting (due to training & procurement requirements, assuming they can even pull those off).

In 2020 Russia's military budget was $61.7 billion.