Russo-Ukrainian War 2014-23 and Invasion

[Zoupa]

[11B4V]

https://mobile.twitter.com/RALee85/status/1512134137150427137

[PDH]

That BTR-4 shooting up the tanks happened on the outskirts of Mariupol.  One wonders how the Ukrainians are operating mobile units directly outside the town like that.  I don't think it means Ukraine can break the siege, but it does mean the assault is likely far less tight than has been said.

I also think it might show the Russians have bled themselves into inability to function properly here too.  YMMV.

[DGuller]

I wonder how long ago that was.  I think Ukrainians are usually pretty smart about waiting for a while before releasing footage that can reveal their position.

[PDH]

I wouldn't think too long ago, a lot of green in the picture.  I know it is in the south, but a couple of weeks ago there were still snow squalls and brown there.

[The Larch]

Unless I seriously fail at reading maps I can see no way for Russian gas to reach Hungary without crossing Ukrainian soil.

Hey Barks!

[The Larch]

I agree with all that - what I meant on the useful idiot thing was the people who basically have spent the last 8 years insisting Ukraine's a far-right country and that the Azov batallion are just synecdoche for all of Ukraine or are particularly focused on them.

If I heard that over the last years my default assumption = tankie.

And now that we talk about them, they're back in the spotlight, thanks to a Zelensky faux pas in his intervention in the Greek parlament. He focused on the situation at Mariupol, which has a Greek minority, and what Greece could do for them, and showed a video adress from an Ethnic Greek soldier, which turned out to belong to the Azov Battallion, and let's just say that it didn't go well.

Ethnic Greek Azov Fighter Overshadows Zelensky Speech at Greek Parliament

An ethnic Greek fighter of the Azov battalion in Mariupol who appeared in a short video shown by Ukraine's President Volodymyr Zelensky during his speech at the Greek Parliament on Thursday caused controversy in Greece.

The man identified himself with only his Christian name as Michail and said he was a member of the controversial Azov regiment defending Mariupol.

"I speak to you as a man of Greek descent. My name is Michail. My grandfather fought against the Nazis in the Second World War. I am born in Mariupol and I am now also fighting to defend my city from the Russian nazis," he said before proceeding to outline the destruction caused to Mariupol since the Russian invasion of February 24.

Main opposition SYRIZA-Progressive Alliance leader Alexis Tsipras strongly criticized the fact that a member of Ukraine's Azov Battalion has been permitted to address the Greek parliament.

"Solidarity with the Ukrainian people is a given. But nazis cannot be allowed to speak in parliament," Tsipras said in a message on social media.

"The speech was a provocation," Tsipras emphasized, adding that the Greek Prime Minister "bears full responsibility" for this day of "historic shame."

The socialist KINAL party issued a statement asking why Greek lawmakers had not been informed about the video intervention of an Azov Battalion member and called on the president of the Greek Parliament to bear responsibility.

Government spokesperson Giannis Oikonomou said the inclusion of the Azov Battalion message was "incorrect and inappropriate". However, he did not say who should be held responsible for this.

Oikonomou, nevertheless, slammed SYRIZA for allegedly "using that mistake... to justify the Russian invasion."

"It is time for a clear answer: are they on the side of the Ukrainians, who are fighting for their freedom, or [on the side of] Putin's invaders?," he said.

The far-right Azov movement
The far-right Azov movement is part of the military and political landscape in Ukraine for nearly a decade. �

President Vladimir Putin framed the Russian invasion of Ukraine as a "special mission" to protect Russian speakers from genocide at the hands of the Azov �"neo-Nazis."

Azov's military and political wings formally separated in 2016, when the far-right National Corps party was founded. The Azov battalion had by then been integrated into the Ukrainian National Guard.

An effective fighting force that's very much involved in the current conflict, the battalion has a history of neo-Nazi leanings, which have not been entirely extinguished by its integration into the Ukrainian military. �

The battalion still operates as a relatively autonomous entity. It has been prominent in defending Mariupol in recent weeks, and its resistance has been widely praised by members of the government.

As CNN notes in an analysis piece, for Putin, who has falsely claimed Ukraine's government is run by "drug addicts and neo-Nazis," Azov presents an obvious target.

"Moscow has given the regiment an outsized role in the conflict, routinely accusing it of human rights abuses," CNN says.

[Josquius]

Depressing clip on the news last night. In a town in the Ukranian held Donbass, under Russian bombardment for weeks, they interview an old woman... "Our land was being sold. Americans were going to put nuclear missiles here so they could attack Russia. If it wasn't for that the Russians wouldnt be here."

Holy...
Rings huge bells of the same shit you see in the west of people who have swallowed kremlin propeganda and refuse to admit they were wrong. And this lady is sleeping in a basement whilst the Russians slaughter their way across her country....

The news implied this was a common view. I do hope not.

I agree with all that - what I meant on the useful idiot thing was the people who basically have spent the last 8 years insisting Ukraine's a far-right country and that the Azov batallion are just synecdoche for all of Ukraine or are particularly focused on them.

If I heard that over the last years my default assumption = tankie.

What I find curious is there doesn't seem to be a split amongst tankies. They're quite united in Russia is innocent.
It's curious as with traditional tankies, anyrhing with socialist in the name is good, you'd logically expect putins fascist regime to be the opposite of what they want.
Yet they're all falling into line behind the regime with seemingly no tankie civil war.
Not that I follow their communities too closely of course. I wonder if naming the breakaway States peoples republics was designed heavily towards these people

[FunkMonk]

I don't think tankies really have a coherent ideology beyond "America bad".

Imperialism, colonialism, racism, Nazism. These are all things America does, so anything against America is by definition anti-imperialism, anti-colonialism, anti-Nazism etc etc. All traditional tankie tenets.

What is more interesting to me is now there are right-wingers joining the tankie crowd, because America, as it currently exists, is bad, but for different reasons (liberalism, feminism, homosexualism etc etc).

[Tamas]

I don't think tankies really have a coherent ideology beyond "America bad".

Imperialism, colonialism, racism, Nazism. These are all things America does, so anything against America is by definition anti-imperialism, anti-colonialism, anti-Nazism etc etc. All traditional tankie tenets.

What is more interesting to me is now there are right-wingers joining the tankie crowd, because America, as it currently exists, is bad, but for different reasons (liberalism, feminism, homosexualism etc etc).

I am less puzzled by the right-wingers getting turned on by Russia. Both the nominal propaganda of the country and the actual realities of how it is run match what they want to see.

[Richard Hakluyt]

I really just can't get into the right-wing nationalist mindset; looking at Putin and putting all morality aside he is destroying Russia.....I just don't get it.

[Josquius]

"There's more important things than money"
Same kind of thinking as that North Korea preaches - sure the south has all that money and consumer goods but look at how decadent they are, they've lost what it means to be Korean, they're just American slaves, they live shallow unlives etc..

From a safe distance where you don't actually have to give up your sky sports and regular takeaways theres an appeal in getting rid of the horrible wokism and making men be men again.

[celedhring]

they live

That's more that can be said of the thousands of Russian soldiers Putin's sent to the meat grinder.

I just don't get it. Well, I get it from Putin's PoV, he DGAF, just not how happily so many seem to go along with it.

[Zanza]

they live

That's more that can be said of the thousands of Russian soldiers Putin's sent to the meat grinder.

I just don't get it. Well, I get it from Putin's PoV, he DGAF, just not how happily so many seem to go along with it.

This famous Hermann Göring quote during the Nuremberg processes comes to mind:
Naturally, the common people don't want war ... but after all it is the leaders of a country who determine the policy, and it is always a simple matter to drag the people along, whether it is a democracy, or a fascist dictatorship, or a parliament, or a communist dictatorship. Voice or no voice, the people can always be brought to the bidding of the leaders. That is easy. All you have to do is to tell them they are being attacked, and denounce the pacifists for lack of patriotism and exposing the country to danger. It works the same in every country.

[Duque de Bragança]

I really just can't get into the right-wing nationalist mindset; looking at Putin and putting all morality aside he is destroying Russia.....I just don't get it.

Does not make sense for Russians of that kind indeed. Now for others...