Russo-Ukrainian War 2014-23 and Invasion

[Sheilbh]

Not sure about switching sides but it has to be another sign this isn't going as planned that Lukashenko and Tokayev are both refusing to actually contribute forces to this.

[Legbiter]

Not sure about switching sides but it has to be another sign this isn't going as planned that Lukashenko and Tokayev are both refusing to actually contribute forces to this.

Yeah that giant convoy up north still isn't moving, the Ukrainians have it largely immobilized and with every passing day it kinda resembles a giant POW camp.

[DGuller]

Not sure about switching sides but it has to be another sign this isn't going as planned that Lukashenko and Tokayev are both refusing to actually contribute forces to this.

It sounds more like the forces are refusing to be contributed.  I hope it's true, because I imagine that in a dictatorship, there is a very short distance between refusing orders and mutiny.

[Josquius]

A lot is made of how Ukraine is winning the propeganda war online but with this sort of thing I do think they could be making an error. Rather than playing the card of democracy and being a country that wants peace a fair bit of the stuff the Ukrainians are putting out does seem a bit fascy.

Please elaborate.

Glory to Ukraine, fuck Russia, lots of hardcore nationalist stuff.
Which considering that's what Russia is smearing them with, as understandable as it might at a time like this be could be a misstep.

[celedhring]

The turks have now come out with their own Bayraktar song.

https://twitter.com/5inan_/status/1500581826317926401

Sorry turks, The Ukrainian one is vastly better.

[The Brain]

A lot is made of how Ukraine is winning the propeganda war online but with this sort of thing I do think they could be making an error. Rather than playing the card of democracy and being a country that wants peace a fair bit of the stuff the Ukrainians are putting out does seem a bit fascy.

Please elaborate.

Glory to Ukraine, fuck Russia, lots of hardcore nationalist stuff.
Which considering that's what Russia is smearing them with, as understandable as it might at a time like this be could be a misstep.

The Tyrverse is a weird place.

[Tamas]

A lot is made of how Ukraine is winning the propeganda war online but with this sort of thing I do think they could be making an error. Rather than playing the card of democracy and being a country that wants peace a fair bit of the stuff the Ukrainians are putting out does seem a bit fascy.

Please elaborate.

Glory to Ukraine, fuck Russia, lots of hardcore nationalist stuff.
Which considering that's what Russia is smearing them with, as understandable as it might at a time like this be could be a misstep.

I highlighted before the war how Ukraine has nasty politics and it has been pretty much a failed state since its independence.

But that is not relevant anymore. Of course they are going to be patriotic. What else are they supposed to be?

And, indeed, fuck Russia.

[Sheilbh]

Being invaded does often provoke a bit of nationalism

Seeing lots of stuff about pets being named Bayraktar

[Josquius]

A lot is made of how Ukraine is winning the propeganda war online but with this sort of thing I do think they could be making an error. Rather than playing the card of democracy and being a country that wants peace a fair bit of the stuff the Ukrainians are putting out does seem a bit fascy.

Please elaborate.

Glory to Ukraine, fuck Russia, lots of hardcore nationalist stuff.
Which considering that's what Russia is smearing them with, as understandable as it might at a time like this be could be a misstep.

The Tyrverse is a weird place.

You disagree that Russians seeing this stuff is likely to feed the nationalist fire that keeps putins regime going?

[Jacob]

So yeah, Denmark has passed the legislation to get its defense spending up to 2% of GDP. On June 1st there'll be a referendum on whether to give up the Danish opt-out on EU defense and foreign policy, with a broad spectrum of parties from right to left "clearly recommending to the Danish people to eliminate the opt-out."

Not that Denmark is going to move the needle by itself, of course.

[Admiral Yi]

The Tyrverse is a weird place.

Sorry Squeeze, gotta agree.  Glory to Ukraine and fuck Russia seem like pretty mild stuff during a totally defensive war.

It would be interesting to see what a Squeeze approved war would look like.

[DGuller]

The turks have now come out with their own Bayraktar song.

https://twitter.com/5inan_/status/1500581826317926401

Sorry turks, The Ukrainian one is vastly better.

Is that really Turkish song?  The lyrics are Ukrainian.

[Josquius]

The Tyrverse is a weird place.

Sorry Squeeze, gotta agree.  Glory to Ukraine and fuck Russia seem like pretty mild stuff during a totally defensive war.

It would be interesting to see what a Squeeze approved war would look like.

That was the general feeling rather than verbatim quotes.

As to ideal world what would be more effective: fuck Putin, this whole thing is happening because Covid has sent him loopy and he is pissed off Ukraine has democratically chosen to stop enriching him and his oligarch cronies; poor Russian conscripts, they're just kids being forced into this shit with minimal training and crap equipment and we are having to kill them in their hundreds as it's them or our families; Russia has reached a historic low point, hopefully there'll be a better tomorrow for both countries.

As said, not going to happen. The cancer of nationalism was already deep in Ukraine and war just breeds hate. But theoretically I do think such a line of messaging would cut through better were it something that could be actively controlled.

[Admiral Yi]

That was the general feeling rather than verbatim quotes.

Feel free to provide verbatim semi fascy quotes if that would bolster your case.

As to ideal world what would be more effective: fuck Putin, this whole thing is happening because Covid has sent him loopy and he is pissed off Ukraine has democratically chosen to stop enriching him and his oligarch cronies; poor Russian conscripts, they're just kids being forced into this shit with minimal training and crap equipment and we are having to kill them in their hundreds as it's them or our families; Russia has reached a historic low point, hopefully there'll be a better tomorrow for both countries.

For Chrissake, they're letting Russian POWs call their moms and letting them take them home.

Singing kumbaya to Putin could be a sweet thing to do, but not doing so is far, far from most people's idea of being semi fascy.

You've said worse things about London and the south and they haven't even invaded you and blown up your cities.

[Malthus]

A lot is made of how Ukraine is winning the propeganda war online but with this sort of thing I do think they could be making an error. Rather than playing the card of democracy and being a country that wants peace a fair bit of the stuff the Ukrainians are putting out does seem a bit fascy.

Please elaborate.

Glory to Ukraine, fuck Russia, lots of hardcore nationalist stuff.
Which considering that's what Russia is smearing them with, as understandable as it might at a time like this be could be a misstep.

The Tyrverse is a weird place.

You disagree that Russians seeing this stuff is likely to feed the nationalist fire that keeps putins regime going?

The Putin propaganda line is that the current Ukrainian government is a bunch of fascists and crooks, and they are there in a special military operation to free Ukraine from their pernicious presence.

The reality - that the invasion has stirred up a lot of Ukrainian nationalism, that the Ukrainians hate the Russian invaders, that they are not welcome to any sizeable constituency in Ukraine - goes directly contrary to Putin's claims.

So it would logically follow that a mass message along the lines that Putin and his Russian soldiers are considered hated invaders won't help Putin's cause at all.