Have any of you guys heard of this? Max and I have a few friends who are fighting in this. It's a hell of a lot of fun to watch.
Live feed: http://www.youtube.com/watch?feature=player_embedded&v=Za5tq-E7loo (http://www.youtube.com/watch?feature=player_embedded&v=Za5tq-E7loo)
More info from Wiki:
QuoteThe Battle of the Nations is an international historical medieval battles world championship, first held in 2009,[1] and held in Europe in April every year since. It is a full contact competition, using metal weapons, and a standardized list of rules.[2] National teams in HMB compete at the championship in several standard nominations, including "Triathlon Duel", "Professional fights", "5 vs 5", "21 vs 21" and "all vs all". All battles are full contact, no stage reenactment battles are organized at the championship. In 2012 25 teams representing 25 countries entered the tournament [3]
One of our friends just won his fight. :D
Great, RenFaire faggots prance around.
The battle of the Nations occurred 200 years ago. The Sixth Coalition won.
Quote from: Ed Anger on May 09, 2013, 10:13:21 AM
Great, RenFaire faggots prance around.
Didn't watch the fighting, did you?
Quote from: merithyn on May 09, 2013, 10:56:27 AM
Quote from: Ed Anger on May 09, 2013, 10:13:21 AM
Great, RenFaire faggots prance around.
Didn't watch the fighting, did you?
Yep
www.youtube.com/watch?v=WhZXq2SvJ0U
:D
More blood in Battle of the Nations.
(https://fbcdn-sphotos-a-a.akamaihd.net/hphotos-ak-prn1/p480x480/923270_629064497122390_419051373_n.jpg)
The USA team is going up against Poland in 21 vs 21 right now.
EDIT: I lied. It's USA against Belarus. My bad. We got spanked. :(
Digging the striped livery, but did we just get our asses kicked by Poles?
EDIT: Just saw Meri's edit. Guess that's not so bad. :D
Quote from: DontSayBanana on May 09, 2013, 11:22:25 AM
Digging the striped livery, but did we just get our asses kicked by Poles?
Belarus
Coming up soon: Poland and Russia
They're the two teams to beat. Russia has won every year for the last three years, and they LOVE to let everyone know that. They pitched a fit when the US wanted to include a team, saying that since the US didn't have a medieval history, we shouldn't be allowed. :D
I need to learn French. :(
Quote from: merithyn on May 09, 2013, 11:25:21 AM
I need to learn French. :(
Ditto me. Wish I had S sitting next to me; she's near-fluent. :(
Holy damn, that was lopsided.
Did you see how many guys were laying on the ground after? Last year, Russia broke more bones than any other nation. (As in broke the bones of other nations... not their own. ;))
Ukraine and Italy up next.
Quote from: merithyn on May 09, 2013, 11:32:15 AM
Did you see how many guys were laying on the ground after? Last year, Russia broke more bones than any other nation. (As in broke the bones of other nations... not their own. ;))
Ukraine and Italy up next.
I'm totally rooting for Ukraine in this one.
I'd like to see Italy do well, mostly because I think they're the underdogs here.
Ukraine wins. 18-0
Blow out!
Quote from: merithyn on May 09, 2013, 11:40:27 AM
I'd like to see Italy do well, mostly because I think they're the underdogs here.
Sorry, Meri. :console:
Quote from: DontSayBanana on May 09, 2013, 11:43:24 AM
Quote from: merithyn on May 09, 2013, 11:40:27 AM
I'd like to see Italy do well, mostly because I think they're the underdogs here.
Sorry, Meri. :console:
Well, there's a reason I said they were the underdogs. :P
Oh, shit. We're screwed.
France vs Belarus next. USA vs Russia after.
Gonna get ugly now.
Well, Poles who engage in this shit are mainly weird Catholic integrists (the Polish equivalents of the likes of Txini) so hope they get their asses kicked.
Speaking of ugly... that's a LOT of people on the ground. From both teams. Good to see the French putting up a fight. :P
This is weird.
So, what's the rules for this?
Quote from: Syt on May 09, 2013, 11:51:13 AM
So, what's the rules for this?
http://middleagestoday.com/en/node/818
Quote from: Syt on May 09, 2013, 11:51:13 AM
So, what's the rules for this?
Beat them to the ground. Once down, you don't get to get back up.
Pretty much that's it. :)
Belarus won that one. USA vs Russia next.
Quote from: Martinus on May 09, 2013, 11:50:11 AM
Well, Poles who engage in this shit are mainly weird Catholic integrists (the Polish equivalents of the likes of Txini) so hope they get their asses kicked.
Yeah, from what I heard about from last year, they're all pretty much a bunch of thugs.
Prepare for things to get really really ugly really really quickly.
Love the Russian soundtrack. :lol:
Everything went better than expected.
Seriously, though, that last guy was a trooper- holding his own while being whacked by 4 Russians. Did you catch a score for this one, Meri?
EDIT: 0-17, Russia wins.
Quote from: Syt on May 09, 2013, 11:59:02 AM
Love the Russian soundtrack. :lol:
Thought that was absolutely perfect. :D
USA loses, 0-17. (I wish I knew what the scoring meant.)
Quote from: merithyn on May 09, 2013, 12:00:03 PM
USA loses, 0-17. (I wish I knew what the scoring meant.)
Looks like submissions or KOs. 17 US on the ground, 0 Russians.
:lol: Did any of you catch the guy dancing to the theme music there? Very little that's funnier than a guy in full armor dancing. :D
It looks a lot like my battles in Mount & Blade. :P
Damnit. Work got in the way and I missed this one. Good fight?
Quote from: merithyn on May 09, 2013, 12:05:10 PM
Damnit. Work got in the way and I missed this one. Good fight?
18-0, Belarus.
Who's up next?
That is one fat knight. A hog in armor. Bertrand de Guesclin reborn.
So, the big countries on this are Russia, Ukraine, Belarus and Poland? I guess that vodka sales skyrocket in the host city.
Quote from: Razgovory on May 09, 2013, 12:09:36 PM
That is one fat knight. A hog in armor. Bertrand de Guesclin reborn.
Heh. I mentioned that several of my friends are there fighting, didn't I? Two of them gained more than 50 pounds for this battle... and lost something like 10-15% body fat. Those are big boys, alright... but not fat.
Quote from: The Larch on May 09, 2013, 12:10:53 PM
So, the big countries on this are Russia, Ukraine, Belarus and Poland? I guess that vodka sales skyrocket in the host city.
It started with them three years ago. It's grown every year, but they're still the Big Teams because they've had the most practice and time in armor.
Quote from: The Larch on May 09, 2013, 12:10:53 PM
So, the big countries on this are Russia, Ukraine, Belarus and Poland? I guess that vodka sales skyrocket in the host city.
Looking at the participating national teams on their website, there's a number other countries (Israel, Germany, Austria, Luxembourg, Australia etc.), but it seems they have smaller teams and therefore don't participate in the mass battles.
They'd be fighting tomorrow in th 5vs5 and in the duels.
Quote from: Syt on May 09, 2013, 12:15:42 PM
Looking at the participating national teams on their website, there's a number other countries (Israel, Germany, Austria, Luxembourg, Australia etc.), but it seems they have smaller teams and therefore don't participate in the mass battles.
They'd be fighting tomorrow in th 5vs5 or the day after in the duels.
:yes: The team only has to have 8- big enough for 5v5, but not necessarily for mass battles.
Quote from: merithyn on May 09, 2013, 12:12:07 PM
Quote from: Razgovory on May 09, 2013, 12:09:36 PM
That is one fat knight. A hog in armor. Bertrand de Guesclin reborn.
Heh. I mentioned that several of my friends are there fighting, didn't I? Two of them gained more than 50 pounds for this battle... and lost something like 10-15% body fat. Those are big boys, alright... but not fat.
Body fat isn't necessarily bad in this sort of combat. Historically warriors wanted a good layer of fat to protect the muscle. And the guy I was looking at, muscles just don't grow that far out of the belly.
Quote from: Syt on May 09, 2013, 12:15:42 PM
Quote from: The Larch on May 09, 2013, 12:10:53 PM
So, the big countries on this are Russia, Ukraine, Belarus and Poland? I guess that vodka sales skyrocket in the host city.
Looking at the participating national teams on their website, there's a number other countries (Israel, Germany, Austria, Luxembourg, Australia etc.), but it seems they have smaller teams and therefore don't participate in the mass battles.
They'd be fighting tomorrow in th 5vs5 and in the duels.
Yeah, but the teams that Larch mentions are the big competitors. The USA team is getting better, but we're not up to those standards yet.
That one Russian seems to have gotten a stern talking to by the refs after beating up the guy who was already down.
That Italian dude is on the ground for quite some time now. :unsure:
Quote from: Syt on May 09, 2013, 12:31:36 PM
That Italian dude is on the ground for quite some time now. :unsure:
Italian? :huh:
It's Italy vs. USA next.
Gotta admit that the USA has the coolest uniform out there. :cool:
Quote from: merithyn on May 09, 2013, 12:42:58 PM
Quote from: Syt on May 09, 2013, 12:31:36 PM
That Italian dude is on the ground for quite some time now. :unsure:
Italian? :huh:
It's Italy vs. USA next.
Before the previous fight. From the Italy-Belarus(?) fight. At least his team mates shouted in Italian to each other. You could see him lying on the ground surrounded by medics occasionally, when the camrea swept across the field. It's why there was such a long break before the fight we just saw.
Which is probably also, why Italy only had 20 guys in the ITA-USA fight.
I watched a few bouts... I'm surprised no one is doing a shield wall type formation.
Quote from: merithyn on May 09, 2013, 11:24:12 AM
They're the two teams to beat. Russia has won every year for the last three years, and they LOVE to let everyone know that. They pitched a fit when the US wanted to include a team, saying that since the US didn't have a medieval history, we shouldn't be allowed. :D
Whereas the Russians have an unfair advantage since they have nothing but a medievial history.
Uhm, does that one US-ian have a "sunwheel"/swastika on his shield? :unsure:
Quote from: The Minsky Moment on May 09, 2013, 12:51:25 PM
Quote from: merithyn on May 09, 2013, 11:24:12 AM
They're the two teams to beat. Russia has won every year for the last three years, and they LOVE to let everyone know that. They pitched a fit when the US wanted to include a team, saying that since the US didn't have a medieval history, we shouldn't be allowed. :D
Whereas the Russians have an unfair advantage since they have nothing but a medievial history.
Well, I'm not surprised the sport originated in countries known for nationalist hooligan violence. :lol:
Quote from: Syt on May 09, 2013, 12:52:12 PM
Uhm, does that one US-ian have a "sunwheel"/swastika on his shield? :unsure:
Oh, I see it now. No, it's a pinwheel of arms. It's a pretty common medieval symbol for "might".
Quote from: Jacob on May 09, 2013, 12:51:05 PM
I watched a few bouts... I'm surprised no one is doing a shield wall type formation.
I think that last year the USA tried something like that and got decimated. The Russians and Poles just slam through shield walls.
Well, a shield wall makes sense if you stack them deep to provide resistance. Which you can't really with 21 dudes.
This is going to be a good fight. Poland vs Belarus
Bel-A-RUS! Bel-A-RUS!
Wow! They dented the shit out of that guy's helmet! He's gonna have a concussion....
and people say MMA is violent.
P.S. Don't let CC see this.
That last Pole standing, looked like the back of his helm was completely bashed in. :lol:
Quote from: Maximus on May 09, 2013, 01:12:49 PM
That last Pole standing, looked like the back of his helm was completely bashed in. :lol:
:yes:
He was Belarus, though. (Poland is in blue.)
USA vs. Poland now.
USA! USA! USA!
Quote from: merithyn on May 09, 2013, 01:15:16 PM
He was Belarus, though. (Poland is in blue.)
Pretty sure Poland is in red and Belarus blue going by their flags.
Quote from: Maximus on May 09, 2013, 01:17:17 PM
Quote from: merithyn on May 09, 2013, 01:15:16 PM
He was Belarus, though. (Poland is in blue.)
Pretty sure Poland is in red and Belarus blue going by their flags.
Yeah, you're right. My bad. :blush:
US-Poland coming up
It looks like a close one, too.
Max, have you seen Robert? I don't know what his armor looks like. :(
Quote from: merithyn on May 09, 2013, 01:24:12 PM
It looks like a close one, too.
Max, have you seen Robert? I don't know what his armor looks like. :(
It looks to me like he was acting as captain. The guy standing out in front had his build and his mannerisms
Storm-trooper like helm with prominent horizontal bars
USA wins!
Oh, and Reed won all of his 1-on-1 fights today! He was the champion of the 1-on-1, I think. :D
These are our friends that are on the team. (Except the one in blue and green. He's there as Chief Schlepper. :D) The one on the far right is Reed, the one who went 3-0 in the 1-on-1 tournament.
(https://fbcdn-sphotos-b-a.akamaihd.net/hphotos-ak-ash4/268981_10151374767306556_985786700_n.jpg)
So what are the rules?
Quote from: Jacob on May 09, 2013, 02:08:20 PM
So what are the rules?
The official rules page seems to have been taken over by a Russian web hosting company :lol:, but this would be pretty close if not exact.
http://usaknights.org/wp-content/uploads/2012/05/Armored-Combat-League-Guidelines-ver-1.5.pdf (http://usaknights.org/wp-content/uploads/2012/05/Armored-Combat-League-Guidelines-ver-1.5.pdf)
Meri: dude on the left really looks the part (Mandingo less so).
Did he get head squooshing surgery for historical authenticity?
Quote from: Admiral Yi on May 09, 2013, 02:14:27 PM
Meri: dude on the left really looks the part (Mandingo less so).
Did he get head squooshing surgery for historical authenticity?
:lol:
Nope. That's just how Robert looks. :D The little hat really gives him a flat-head look, though, doesn't it?
I just noticed that our friend Brad isn't in the pic. He's a huge, muscular, bald guy that looks like a bruiser. In full armor, he's scary as hell. :ph34r:
Superlightweight? I'd be terrified of putting them in armor. Hell, plate armor would weigh pretty much half as much as the fighter. :ph34r:
Quote from: DontSayBanana on May 09, 2013, 02:25:24 PM
Superlightweight? I'd be terrified of putting them in armor. Hell, plate armor would weigh pretty much half as much as the fighter. :ph34r:
The armor the guys wear is around 30-45 pounds. It's not nearly as heavy as you think it is. The helm and chest are the heaviest.
Quote from: merithyn on May 09, 2013, 02:26:37 PM
Quote from: DontSayBanana on May 09, 2013, 02:25:24 PM
Superlightweight? I'd be terrified of putting them in armor. Hell, plate armor would weigh pretty much half as much as the fighter. :ph34r:
The armor the guys wear is around 30-45 pounds. It's not nearly as heavy as you think it is. The helm and chest are the heaviest.
I guess I can see that- it does look like they forego the chainmail shirt and hood, which would probably make up the difference in the weight.
I don't know about this year, but last year Team USA average was something like 20 years older and 50 pounds heavier than their competition.
Rob wasn't fighting today. I was reading his blog and he's not on the 21x21 team. He'll be fighting tomorrow in the 5x5s
Okay. I really should read his blog during this, eh? :blush:
Quote from: DontSayBanana on May 09, 2013, 02:25:24 PM
Superlightweight? I'd be terrified of putting them in armor. Hell, plate armor would weigh pretty much half as much as the fighter. :ph34r:
Armor only got really heavy during the Renaissance when the armor was being made to stop bullets. Before that it was pretty light, or at least alot lighter than one would think. Actually slightly less than what modern soldiers carry around.
Quote from: Jacob on May 09, 2013, 02:08:20 PM
So what are the rules?
The section on prohibited moves gives a good guide to the most effective medieval combat tactics. :lol:
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=yWVCOZgENY0 (http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=yWVCOZgENY0)
I would think the way to go, if you win by putting the guy down, is billhooks and other tripping weapons.
I wonder if the flags on the backdrop represents the competing nations. I spotted both China and Japan in there, and of course Quebec.
Quote from: Jacob on May 09, 2013, 05:42:15 PM
I wonder if the flags on the backdrop represents the competing nations. I spotted both China and Japan in there, and of course Quebec.
I hadn't noticed that Japan and China were there. Apparently there are 22 teams this year. There were 12 last year, 7 the year before and 4 the first year iirc.
Quote from: Maximus on May 09, 2013, 07:12:36 PM
Quote from: Jacob on May 09, 2013, 05:42:15 PM
I wonder if the flags on the backdrop represents the competing nations. I spotted both China and Japan in there, and of course Quebec.
I hadn't noticed that Japan and China were there. Apparently there are 22 teams this year. There were 12 last year, 7 the year before and 4 the first year iirc.
I'm just judging the flags and the writing on the backdrop wall.
Quote from: Jacob on May 09, 2013, 05:42:15 PM
I wonder if the flags on the backdrop represents the competing nations. I spotted both China and Japan in there, and of course Quebec.
I wonder if Japan and China are decked out in medieval European regailia or Asian stuff (which would be much cooler).
I'm glad Britain is united and not split.
Quote from: Jacob on May 09, 2013, 05:42:15 PM
I wonder if the flags on the backdrop represents the competing nations. I spotted both China and Japan in there, and of course Quebec.
Overview of teams:
http://battleofthenations.ua/index.php/viewers/introducing-the-national-teams-of-battle-of-the-nations-2013.html
Quote from: Syt on May 09, 2013, 10:23:58 PM
Quote from: Jacob on May 09, 2013, 05:42:15 PM
I wonder if the flags on the backdrop represents the competing nations. I spotted both China and Japan in there, and of course Quebec.
Overview of teams:
http://battleofthenations.ua/index.php/viewers/introducing-the-national-teams-of-battle-of-the-nations-2013.html
I like how the captain of the Japanese team is a white dude :lol:
Anyhow, it appears that the flags on the backdrop do not indicate that a team is represented.
Quote from: Jacob on May 09, 2013, 11:48:19 PM
Quote from: Syt on May 09, 2013, 10:23:58 PM
Quote from: Jacob on May 09, 2013, 05:42:15 PM
I wonder if the flags on the backdrop represents the competing nations. I spotted both China and Japan in there, and of course Quebec.
Overview of teams:
http://battleofthenations.ua/index.php/viewers/introducing-the-national-teams-of-battle-of-the-nations-2013.html
I like how the captain of the Japanese team is a white dude :lol:
Anyhow, it appears that the flags on the backdrop do not indicate that a team is represented.
The Austrian team, meanwhile, features a Joji Ishikawa. :lol:
http://www.vollkontaktkampf.at/Team_Austria
The 5 vs. 5 battles are much easier to follow than the 21 vs 21 ones.. :lol:
And another Italian (or the same as yesterday?) knocked out. :unsure:
Unfortunately, the Japanese use European armor. :(
Quote from: Syt on May 10, 2013, 04:22:57 AM
Unfortunately, the Japanese use European armor. :(
If they used Japanese style armour they'd get utterly trounced.
They could probably go for some sort of Kendo armor variant.
Btw, the link for today's Stream:
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Mck6E0ZvvJE&newstate=fa9cd77cc23083dbcdbb236d2dbe93a9
Thanks. Just getting up. Did I miss much? I'll watch it all later on replay, but anything that I should watch for?
I'm drifting in and out. :P
Currently the subgroup with America 3 competing. I'm guessing some of the Americans used to play football? They seem to tackle a bit more than other teams.
Quote from: Syt on May 10, 2013, 06:05:44 AM
I'm drifting in and out. :P
Currently the subgroup with America 3 competing. I'm guessing some of the Americans used to play football? They seem to tackle a bit more than other teams.
Not to my knowledge, no, but I don't know them all.
I wish there was a running tally sheet somewhere. :mad:
We'll see a lot more teams today. There were a lot that were too small for the 21 vs 21.
Germany against Italy is up now, Syt. :D
Austria was decimated by Russia.
I LOVE Germany's uniforms! The dags absolutely make the tunics.
:lol:
The announcer: "A camera was stolen from a camp, so please, give it back. You can turn it in at the info area."
That was a hard fight. Well done both teams.
Russia and USA after this series.
Okay, not liking this as much as the 1 vs 1. Too much grappling and punching and not enough sword fighting. :mad:
There's an article in the New York Times Sports section about this.
http://www.nytimes.com/2013/05/09/sports/battle-of-the-nations-a-holy-grail-of-battle-re-enactments.html?_r=0 (http://www.nytimes.com/2013/05/09/sports/battle-of-the-nations-a-holy-grail-of-battle-re-enactments.html?_r=0)
Nasty leaping kick to the front of the knee on that Pole. Looked like they were down one man for the second round.
I'm amazed no-one has been killed doing this so far. Seems only a matter of time.
I saw two re-enactors at the ROM demonstrating armoured sword-fighting techniques - they had blunted weapons, but one was accidentally stabbed in the armpit nonetheless, and started to bleed out right in front of us. Ambulance arrived and he lived.
There are a couple serious injuries every year.
Quote from: Malthus on May 10, 2013, 09:59:54 AM
I'm amazed no-one has been killed doing this so far. Seems only a matter of time.
A Luxembourger charged a Frenchie from behind today and brought his polearm crashing down on the back of his head. It really had me worried there for a moment. The French guy was able to continue, though.
There's Adrian. Nearly took out a fence.
Quote from: Maximus on May 10, 2013, 10:52:29 AM
There's Adrian. Nearly took out a fence.
:D
Well, at 6'6" and 270+ pounds, those fences don't stand a chance.
"Edged Weapon Nutters" :rolleyes:
Quote from: 11B4V on May 10, 2013, 10:58:15 AM
"Edged Weapon Nutters" :rolleyes:
:D
Watch it, 11B4V. You know you wanna'....
Quote from: merithyn on May 10, 2013, 11:00:32 AM
Quote from: 11B4V on May 10, 2013, 10:58:15 AM
"Edged Weapon Nutters" :rolleyes:
:D
Watch it, 11B4V. You know you wanna'....
He's waiting for a version where people put on
modern body armour and shoot at each other. ;)
Anyway, must be a hoot bringing that gear through customs. ;)
Quote from: merithyn on May 10, 2013, 11:00:32 AM
Quote from: 11B4V on May 10, 2013, 10:58:15 AM
"Edged Weapon Nutters" :rolleyes:
:D
Watch it, 11B4V. You know you wanna'....
I did. It's pretty good.
Israel is ripping up the lists. I think their 5x5 team is undefeated.
Probably have lots of experience doing crowd control in the West Bank. :P
Oh, this one's fun... seems like more tactics are being used.
Edit: Damn, that German was a beast. Don't know that I'd stand there and take it from three guys like he did.
Quote from: merithyn on May 10, 2013, 11:07:24 AMDon't know that I'd stand there and take it from three guys like he did.
:zipped:
Quote from: Malthus on May 10, 2013, 11:02:31 AM
Quote from: merithyn on May 10, 2013, 11:00:32 AM
Quote from: 11B4V on May 10, 2013, 10:58:15 AM
"Edged Weapon Nutters" :rolleyes:
:D
Watch it, 11B4V. You know you wanna'....
He's waiting for a version where people put on modern body armour and shoot at each other. ;)
We're way ahead of you. Sim Rounds.
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=vBGmtySyLig
or you know, Milsim Paintball.
Quote from: Grey Fox on May 10, 2013, 11:17:02 AM
or you know, Milsim Paintball.
Milsim Airsoft is better. I play that all the time.
BTW, you fucks are killing me. I have to wait to get home, I can't pull up youtube form work. I did watch some last night, looks like fun.
There's supposed to be an all-vs-all battle in half an hour. Not for rankings. It's a friendly event.
Quote from: Maximus on May 10, 2013, 11:27:39 AM
There's supposed to be an all-vs-all battle in half an hour. Not for rankings. It's a friendly event.
Sounds real friendly :lol:
Five minutes to kill time. :D
Quote from: lustindarkness on May 10, 2013, 11:23:24 AM
Quote from: Grey Fox on May 10, 2013, 11:17:02 AM
or you know, Milsim Paintball.
Milsim Airsoft is better. I play that all the time.
BTW, you fucks are killing me. I have to wait to get home, I can't pull up youtube form work. I did watch some last night, looks like fun.
Bah fuck the orange tip. ;)
Quote from: Grey Fox on May 10, 2013, 12:07:43 PM
Quote from: lustindarkness on May 10, 2013, 11:23:24 AM
Quote from: Grey Fox on May 10, 2013, 11:17:02 AM
or you know, Milsim Paintball.
Milsim Airsoft is better. I play that all the time.
BTW, you fucks are killing me. I have to wait to get home, I can't pull up youtube form work. I did watch some last night, looks like fun.
Bah fuck the orange tip. ;)
Too small. :)
I have been to games with over 120 people, not one orange tip to be seen in the field. ;)
Also this is canada, acquiring a airsoft non-clear launcher is a paaaaaaain.
That Belgian (red helmet) is HUGE. :ph34r:
Quote from: Grey Fox on May 10, 2013, 12:14:28 PM
Also this is canada, acquiring a airsoft non-clear launcher is a paaaaaaain.
You know that Canada doesn't have a team in the games, but Quebec does, don't you? :D
Quote from: lustindarkness on May 10, 2013, 11:23:24 AM
Quote from: Grey Fox on May 10, 2013, 11:17:02 AM
or you know, Milsim Paintball.
Milsim Airsoft is better. I play that all the time.
Whazzat? Tell me more.
Well that didn't take long
The chat stream is alternatively annoying and amusing. They all say the same stuff, and then think they're so clever when they say it.
Quote from: Berkut on May 10, 2013, 12:24:22 PM
Quote from: lustindarkness on May 10, 2013, 11:23:24 AM
Quote from: Grey Fox on May 10, 2013, 11:17:02 AM
or you know, Milsim Paintball.
Milsim Airsoft is better. I play that all the time.
Whazzat? Tell me more.
http://www.alabamaairsoft.org/forum
My next game: http://www.warfareinc.org/ organized by my brother in law at this field: http://home.hiwaay.net/~mtdoom/
I also play with my redneck friends, those the only rule is we stop shooting when you scream/yell/beg for mercy. Thos are great fun too. :)
Quote from: Maximus on May 10, 2013, 12:24:39 PM
Well that didn't take long
:( I have to wait 'till tonight to watch it.
Quote from: merithyn on May 10, 2013, 12:18:56 PM
Quote from: Grey Fox on May 10, 2013, 12:14:28 PM
Also this is canada, acquiring a airsoft non-clear launcher is a paaaaaaain.
You know that Canada doesn't have a team in the games, but Quebec does, don't you? :D
Yes, I have yet to catch any of their bouts tho. Altho, youtube sucks from work.
Quote from: Maximus on May 10, 2013, 09:46:06 AM
Nasty leaping kick to the front of the knee on that Pole. Looked like they were down one man for the second round.
From the rules you linked, that could easily have been a yellow card. Knees and feet seem to be a no-no.
@Malthus: swipes only, no thrusts, probably for that exact reason.
@Lusti: Yeah, a couple ex-forumites and I do that up here, too- I'm usually the asshole with the heavy-duty stuff in the 400+ FPS range, like my spring SWAT rifle. :menace:
Quote from: DontSayBanana on May 10, 2013, 01:05:42 PM
@Lusti: Yeah, a couple ex-forumites and I do that up here, too- I'm usually the asshole with the heavy-duty stuff in the 400+ FPS range, like my spring SWAT rifle. :menace:
Sweet. I use an MP5 I borrow or my own G36C. The G36 has performed awesome for 2 years now.
Today's stream:
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=AyNkumDIqW8
Today are the finals 1 vs 1 and 5 vs 5. I admit I like these better than the 21 vs 21, because they're so much easier to follow on the stream.
Actually, if next year's tournament is held in a civilized country (i.e. not in Ukraine, Russia or thereabouts) I'm considering trying to get a few friends interested in visiting the tournament.
meri & Max: I'm afraid your man Reed lost to his Ukrainian opponent. My impression was he looked a bit passive versus the Ukrainian's aggression. :(
Love the American shield design, though. :lol:
(https://languish.org/forums/proxy.php?request=http%3A%2F%2Fprofile.ak.fbcdn.net%2Fhprofile-ak-prn1%2Fc15.33.160.160%2F542503_456031627759012_401750857_n.jpg&hash=bc5f4bcbae2a7c725c565d63b9112c75da214888)
QuoteThis video contains content from battleofthenations, who has blocked it on copyright grounds.
Sorry about that.
Err .... someone pressed the wrong button?
Quote from: Syt on May 11, 2013, 05:23:51 AM
meri & Max: I'm afraid your man Reed lost to his Ukrainian opponent. My impression was he looked a bit passive versus the Ukrainian's aggression. :(
Love the American shield design, though. :lol:
(https://languish.org/forums/proxy.php?request=http%3A%2F%2Fprofile.ak.fbcdn.net%2Fhprofile-ak-prn1%2Fc15.33.160.160%2F542503_456031627759012_401750857_n.jpg&hash=bc5f4bcbae2a7c725c565d63b9112c75da214888)
Well that sucks. :(
I just got onto a computer, so I'm going to watch them all on time-delay. Thanks for the heads up on Reed, though. Yeah, that's just how he fights. He looks like he's relaxed, but really, he's all about conserving energy, and taking shots only when he knows they'll hit.
Quote from: Syt on May 11, 2013, 02:25:33 AM
Today's stream:
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=AyNkumDIqW8
Today are the finals 1 vs 1 and 5 vs 5. I admit I like these better than the 21 vs 21, because they're so much easier to follow on the stream.
Here's the link: http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=LX-poquWk4A
I thought this would be more interesting to me, but I found it a bit hard to watch. Maybe it is more exciting if you're there.
Quote from: Ed Anger on May 09, 2013, 10:13:21 AM
Great, RenFaire faggots prance around.
From the bit I saw, it was more like stumbling around like you're half-asleep or drunk.
Watchiung this is pretty cool.
However, it is only a matter of time before someone gets killed doing this. Armor or no armor, being struck full force with a metal weapon in the head could very easily be fatal. Much less a strike to the neck, intentional or not. And when those guys are going at each other, a illegal blow to the neck is going to be just as deadly whether it is against the rules or not.
You know that they're wearing pretty heavy plate metal around their necks, don't you?
People die playing every sport. ;)
I think its an acceptable risk.
Quote from: merithyn on May 09, 2013, 01:07:51 PM
This is going to be a good fight. Poland vs Belarus
Bel-A-RUS! Bel-A-RUS!
Are you cheering for Belarus because of Marty's information that the Poles are somewhat reactionary? I believe Marty, but suspect many of other Eastern Europeans are even worse. :P
Quote from: merithyn on May 12, 2013, 08:52:42 AM
You know that they're wearing pretty heavy plate metal around their necks, don't you?
Of course, they are wearing heavy plate all over - that is kind of necessary because they are hitting each with heavy steel swords and the like.
If you really think that a helmet is anything like a sure way to protect you from having your brain concused and swelled up until you die when someone takes an overhand swing at your cranium, you are, well, wrong.
It is just a matter of time.
Apparently there'll be qualification for the Danish team in Battle of Nations during Pentecost in a park not far from here. It's combined with the Copenhagen Medieval Fair.
http://kmm.dk/?lang=en
Should be fun.
Quote from: Berkut on May 12, 2013, 11:18:54 PM
Of course, they are wearing heavy plate all over - that is kind of necessary because they are hitting each with heavy steel swords and the like.
If you really think that a helmet is anything like a sure way to protect you from having your brain concused and swelled up until you die when someone takes an overhand swing at your cranium, you are, well, wrong.
It is just a matter of time.
No, that I can see, but you specifically mentioned the neck. I'd say that the neck is the most protected part of their bodies. Concussions aren't uncommon in this game, however, and yes, it will be that which kills them, should it happen.
Quote from: merithyn on May 13, 2013, 10:09:59 AM
Quote from: Berkut on May 12, 2013, 11:18:54 PM
Of course, they are wearing heavy plate all over - that is kind of necessary because they are hitting each with heavy steel swords and the like.
If you really think that a helmet is anything like a sure way to protect you from having your brain concused and swelled up until you die when someone takes an overhand swing at your cranium, you are, well, wrong.
It is just a matter of time.
No, that I can see, but you specifically mentioned the neck. I'd say that the neck is the most protected part of their bodies. Concussions aren't uncommon in this game, however, and yes, it will be that which kills them, should it happen.
Well, I don't think we need to limit the chances of serious death to one area. The neck is very heavil protected precisely because it is such a vulnerable area. But that protection hardly guaratees anything - I cannot imagine enough armor that is actually wearable by a human that a over hand swing with even a dull bastard sword to the neck is going to have a decent chance of crushing some vertebrae, for example.
Of course, that is also why blows to the neck are illegal - if the armor guaranteed safety, you would not need to make those blows illegal. But making the blow illegal won't stop it from happening, just decrease the incidence rate. When it does happen though, either becuase someone is breaking the rules or simply swinging at a point that was NOT their neck when the swing started, but IS their neck now, the result will be a devastating injury.
Not saying they should or should not be doing this, just that I don't think it will last long. Someone is going to get killed, and that will be that.
I mean, I could imagine more beyond the neck and head - the groin, for example. Femoral artery. Broken femur can be deadly even.
There is that potential, yes. Luckily, these guys are well-trained, well-armored, and incredibly careful in order to minimize the risk.
I would guess that their greatest risk is recurring concussions, much like in boxing.
"Incredibly careful"? Are you watching the same videos I am watching?
They are grown men hitting each other as hard they can with swords. I appreciate that they are in theory very careful, and the system is setup such that they are trying to minimze risk as much as possible, but at the end of the day, they are grown men hitting each other with swords. The outcome is inevitable.
I would guess recurring concussions are not a risk, they are the point. Much like in boxing, where the point is to beat your opponent in the head until they collapse, saying that their is a risk of concussion is like saying their is a risk of someone getting shot when you point a gun at them and pull the trigger.
I enjoy watching many sports that can and do result in concussions. At least this one they look cool as hell in the process. :) I hope no one ever gets seriously hurt, but like berkie says, its almost guaranteed to happen.
Yeah, it is damn cool.
My thought process that led to me thinking about how likely someone was going to get killed went like this:
Wow, those guys are really going at it! They aren't holding back or anything, they are really hitting each other as hard as they can.
That guys just made a nice move - several overhand strokes at the dudes head, got his shield up, then attacked his leg.
Damn, he is really hitting him really fucking hard.
I don't think I would be good at this - I would be too worried about hurting my opponent to go after them in the manner necessary to really be good at it...
But these guys really look like they are trying to kill each other.
Well, duh, they are engaged in a sport that directly simulates lethal combat, and they are doing so where the measure of winning it to actually hurt the opponent, not score "points".
Someone is so going to get killed.
This isn't fencing (which is also insanely cool, imo). They are not engaged in a sport that is styalized off of combat. They are engaged in actual combat, but with intentionally degraded weapons and some rules to try to avoid the more obviously dangerous strikes. But otherwise, they are trying to do basically the exact same thing two people who are honestly trying to kill one another are doing.
:mellow:
I'm well-aware. Thanks. In fact, I'm pretty sure everyone who participates is well-aware.
QuoteSomeone is so going to get killed.
Only a matter of time. It'll be fun to watch while it lasts.
Quote from: Berkut on May 13, 2013, 10:20:21 AM
Not saying they should or should not be doing this, just that I don't think it will last long. Someone is going to get killed, and that will be that.
I don't know...other countries tend to be more flexible when it comes to letting people do dangerous activities. Considering this seems to center on Eastern Europe, I don't think the occassional death will necessarily stop things.
I'm pretty sure the danger is a large part of the appeal.
I'm kinda split on the Berkut/Meri view...
I wonder how this kind of thing would go over if it were guys using modern firearms w/rubber bullets (not airsoft...that'd be like the normal SCA/rattan-wooden swords fighting) and wearing full modern kevlar/body armor?
It'd probably be far more controversial without the "cool! It's like a ren fair!" factor.
But again, like boxing, everyone knows the risks. If you want permanent brain injuries, that's cool. It's not really worse than bungee-jumping or sky diving. Both will kill you without the right/working equipment.
Quote from: Tonitrus on May 13, 2013, 11:59:22 AM
I'm kinda split on the Berkut/Meri view...
I wonder how this kind of thing would go over if it were guys using modern firearms w/rubber bullets (not airsoft...that'd be like the normal SCA/rattan-wooden swords fighting) and wearing full modern kevlar/body armor?
It'd probably be far more controversial without the "cool! It's like a ren fair!" factor.
But again, like boxing, everyone knows the risks. If you want permanent brain injuries, that's cool. It's not really worse than bungee-jumping or sky diving. Both will kill you without the right/working equipment.
That doesn't sound like a split, given that I pretty much agree with everything you said here. In particular, the bolded bit.
Quote from: merithyn on May 13, 2013, 12:15:34 PM
Quote from: Tonitrus on May 13, 2013, 11:59:22 AM
I'm kinda split on the Berkut/Meri view...
I wonder how this kind of thing would go over if it were guys using modern firearms w/rubber bullets (not airsoft...that'd be like the normal SCA/rattan-wooden swords fighting) and wearing full modern kevlar/body armor?
It'd probably be far more controversial without the "cool! It's like a ren fair!" factor.
But again, like boxing, everyone knows the risks. If you want permanent brain injuries, that's cool. It's not really worse than bungee-jumping or sky diving. Both will kill you without the right/working equipment.
That doesn't sound like a split, given that I pretty much agree with everything you said here. In particular, the bolded bit.
The split is that I think doing this kind of thing is stupid. ;)
Quote from: Tonitrus on May 13, 2013, 12:29:43 PM
The split is that I think doing this kind of thing is stupid. ;)
Fair enough. :)
Quote from: Tonitrus on May 13, 2013, 11:59:22 AM
If you want permanent brain injuries, that's cool. It's not really worse than bungee-jumping or sky diving. Both will kill you without the right/working equipment.
I don't see it as the same at all.
First of all, the risk associated with bungee jumping and skydiving is very well understood - both activities have been done millions of times, and those who engage in them know exactly how safe or unsafe it is, based on the simple statistical analysis. The reality is that both of those activities are pretty damn safe, with fatality rates that are very low.
But still, those are not competive sports where there is an element of another human being trying his best to hurt you in the process. That is really an apples and oranges comparison. The better comparison is to other combative sports, like boxing or octagon fighting...except neither of those involve the use of weapons other than the human body. And they are both pretty dangerous, but still, deaths in either are very rare. In both cases it is pretty difficult to actually kill a human being with your bare hands withint the scope of the moves made in those kinds of contests.
Live steel fighting is very different because you are introducing actual weapons, the fundamental design of which is to kill humans. Then you add a bunch of protective equipment to stop said injuries from occuring, but the scope of the contest is in fact in each person attempting to injure their opponent despite those protective measures. And the result of the protective measures failing in, say, a boxing match, is a concussion. In live steel fighting, it will be someone dying.
Again, everyone going in is doing so with open eyes, it's not like it could come as a surprise to anyone. But nonetheless, this strikes me as an order of magnitude more dangerous than pretty much any other competitive sport I could imagine. Maybe auto-racing?
Quote from: Berkut on May 13, 2013, 01:07:34 PM
Quote from: Tonitrus on May 13, 2013, 11:59:22 AM
If you want permanent brain injuries, that's cool. It's not really worse than bungee-jumping or sky diving. Both will kill you without the right/working equipment.
I don't see it as the same at all.
First of all, the risk associated with bungee jumping and skydiving is very well understood - both activities have been done millions of times, and those who engage in them know exactly how safe or unsafe it is, based on the simple statistical analysis. The reality is that both of those activities are pretty damn safe, with fatality rates that are very low.
But still, those are not competive sports where there is an element of another human being trying his best to hurt you in the process. That is really an apples and oranges comparison. The better comparison is to other combative sports, like boxing or octagon fighting...except neither of those involve the use of weapons other than the human body. And they are both pretty dangerous, but still, deaths in either are very rare. In both cases it is pretty difficult to actually kill a human being with your bare hands withint the scope of the moves made in those kinds of contests.
Live steel fighting is very different because you are introducing actual weapons, the fundamental design of which is to kill humans. Then you add a bunch of protective equipment to stop said injuries from occuring, but the scope of the contest is in fact in each person attempting to injure their opponent despite those protective measures. And the result of the protective measures failing in, say, a boxing match, is a concussion. In live steel fighting, it will be someone dying.
Again, everyone going in is doing so with open eyes, it's not like it could come as a surprise to anyone. But nonetheless, this strikes me as an order of magnitude more dangerous than pretty much any other competitive sport I could imagine. Maybe auto-racing?
I agree with Meri in that I think the risk of concussions is going to be what is dangerous in this sport.
Where I disagree with Meri is that I think the risk of concussions is HUGE. She even admits that they are "not uncommon". That is not a good thing.
There was a story in the news this morning about how the family of Derek Boogaard was suing the NHL. Boogaard was a hockey enforcer for several years - which meant he fought. A lot. Then he died of a drug overdose. Autopsy revealed he suffered from chronic traumatic encephalopathy, caused by blows to the head. Also there are several thousand former NFL players suing the NFL - all about head trauma.
The more we learn about head trauma, the worse it seems. A lot of what we thought about the risks of concussions has turned out to be far understating them.
Now this is going on in Eastern Europe, which is one thing. BUt I doubt it'll get much traction in North America. If it ever did it would be sued out of existence within a efw years.
Yes, but think of it this way - the very obviousness of the danger works against a lawsuit.
A football player may say "we were never adequately warned of the dangers inherent in this sport - if we were, we would have done something different".
With this game, it is hard to argue going into it "we didn't know" we were risking life and limb.
Quote from: Barrister on May 13, 2013, 01:16:10 PM
I agree with Meri in that I think the risk of concussions is going to be what is dangerous in this sport.
Where I disagree with Meri is that I think the risk of concussions is HUGE. She even admits that they are "not uncommon". That is not a good thing.
There was a story in the news this morning about how the family of Derek Boogaard was suing the NHL. Boogaard was a hockey enforcer for several years - which meant he fought. A lot. Then he died of a drug overdose. Autopsy revealed he suffered from chronic traumatic encephalopathy, caused by blows to the head. Also there are several thousand former NFL players suing the NFL - all about head trauma.
The more we learn about head trauma, the worse it seems. A lot of what we thought about the risks of concussions has turned out to be far understating them.
Now this is going on in Eastern Europe, which is one thing. BUt I doubt it'll get much traction in North America. If it ever did it would be sued out of existence within a efw years.
:unsure:
Again, where's the disagreement? I'm not minimizing the danger at all. I recognize it completely, just like I recognize it with football, boxing, and hockey.
Quote from: merithyn on May 13, 2013, 01:41:35 PM
Quote from: Barrister on May 13, 2013, 01:16:10 PM
I agree with Meri in that I think the risk of concussions is going to be what is dangerous in this sport.
Where I disagree with Meri is that I think the risk of concussions is HUGE. She even admits that they are "not uncommon". That is not a good thing.
There was a story in the news this morning about how the family of Derek Boogaard was suing the NHL. Boogaard was a hockey enforcer for several years - which meant he fought. A lot. Then he died of a drug overdose. Autopsy revealed he suffered from chronic traumatic encephalopathy, caused by blows to the head. Also there are several thousand former NFL players suing the NFL - all about head trauma.
The more we learn about head trauma, the worse it seems. A lot of what we thought about the risks of concussions has turned out to be far understating them.
Now this is going on in Eastern Europe, which is one thing. BUt I doubt it'll get much traction in North America. If it ever did it would be sued out of existence within a efw years.
:unsure:
Again, where's the disagreement? I'm not minimizing the danger at all. I recognize it completely, just like I recognize it with football, boxing, and hockey.
I think it's dangerous to the point where the sport, as it exists, should not be allowed to continue. Maybe if they banned blows to the head completely it might be safe. But problem is that a metal helmet isn't going to do a darn thing to prevent a concussion.
Quote from: Barrister on May 13, 2013, 01:45:22 PM
I think it's dangerous to the point where the sport, as it exists, should not be allowed to continue. Maybe if they banned blows to the head completely it might be safe. But problem is that a metal helmet isn't going to do a darn thing to prevent a concussion.
Ah, okay. Now I see where the disagreement is. :)
Quote from: Barrister on May 13, 2013, 01:45:22 PM
I think it's dangerous to the point where the sport, as it exists, should not be allowed to continue. Maybe if they banned blows to the head completely it might be safe. But problem is that a metal helmet isn't going to do a darn thing to prevent a concussion.
Why should it not be allowed to continue? They're consenting adults. I just don't get that nanny state attitude.
Same with calling it stupid. Stupid would be doing it not knowing the risks. Believe me these guys know what they're getting into.
Quote from: merithyn on May 13, 2013, 01:41:35 PM
Quote from: Barrister on May 13, 2013, 01:16:10 PM
I agree with Meri in that I think the risk of concussions is going to be what is dangerous in this sport.
Where I disagree with Meri is that I think the risk of concussions is HUGE. She even admits that they are "not uncommon". That is not a good thing.
There was a story in the news this morning about how the family of Derek Boogaard was suing the NHL. Boogaard was a hockey enforcer for several years - which meant he fought. A lot. Then he died of a drug overdose. Autopsy revealed he suffered from chronic traumatic encephalopathy, caused by blows to the head. Also there are several thousand former NFL players suing the NFL - all about head trauma.
The more we learn about head trauma, the worse it seems. A lot of what we thought about the risks of concussions has turned out to be far understating them.
Now this is going on in Eastern Europe, which is one thing. BUt I doubt it'll get much traction in North America. If it ever did it would be sued out of existence within a efw years.
:unsure:
Again, where's the disagreement? I'm not minimizing the danger at all. I recognize it completely, just like I recognize it with football, boxing, and hockey.
I think comparing the danger to football, boxing, and hockey betrays that you don't recognize the danger at all.
But I don't see you heading out there, so it doesn't really matter to you - as long as the people out there hitting each other with swords understand the danger...
...then it won't matter a bit when someone gets killed and their family sues the person who hit them in the head with a sword.
Quote from: Maximus on May 13, 2013, 01:49:24 PM
Quote from: Barrister on May 13, 2013, 01:45:22 PM
I think it's dangerous to the point where the sport, as it exists, should not be allowed to continue. Maybe if they banned blows to the head completely it might be safe. But problem is that a metal helmet isn't going to do a darn thing to prevent a concussion.
Why should it not be allowed to continue? They're consenting adults. I just don't get that nanny state attitude.
Same with calling it stupid. Stupid would be doing it not knowing the risks. Believe me these guys know what they're getting into.
I would not call it stupid, but not because they understand the risks. Lots of people do stupid things fully understanding the risks. Driving without a seatbelt is stupid, but people do it anyway, and they certainly understand the risks.
Quote from: Maximus on May 13, 2013, 01:49:24 PM
Quote from: Barrister on May 13, 2013, 01:45:22 PM
I think it's dangerous to the point where the sport, as it exists, should not be allowed to continue. Maybe if they banned blows to the head completely it might be safe. But problem is that a metal helmet isn't going to do a darn thing to prevent a concussion.
Why should it not be allowed to continue? They're consenting adults. I just don't get that nanny state attitude.
Same with calling it stupid. Stupid would be doing it not knowing the risks. Believe me these guys know what they're getting into.
Because the risks of CTE are not at all obvious, occur slowly over time, and can only be conclusively diagnosed upon death.
There are thousands of former NFL players who say they did not, in fact, know the risks.
Quote from: Barrister on May 13, 2013, 01:57:23 PM
Quote from: Maximus on May 13, 2013, 01:49:24 PM
Quote from: Barrister on May 13, 2013, 01:45:22 PM
I think it's dangerous to the point where the sport, as it exists, should not be allowed to continue. Maybe if they banned blows to the head completely it might be safe. But problem is that a metal helmet isn't going to do a darn thing to prevent a concussion.
Why should it not be allowed to continue? They're consenting adults. I just don't get that nanny state attitude.
Same with calling it stupid. Stupid would be doing it not knowing the risks. Believe me these guys know what they're getting into.
Because the risks of CTE are not at all obvious, occur slowly over time, and can only be conclusively diagnosed upon death.
There are thousands of former NFL players who say they did not, in fact, know the risks.
Yeah, but just because they say they didn't know the risks doesn't mean they didn't know the risks.
Quote from: Maximus on May 13, 2013, 01:49:24 PM
Quote from: Barrister on May 13, 2013, 01:45:22 PM
I think it's dangerous to the point where the sport, as it exists, should not be allowed to continue. Maybe if they banned blows to the head completely it might be safe. But problem is that a metal helmet isn't going to do a darn thing to prevent a concussion.
Why should it not be allowed to continue? They're consenting adults. I just don't get that nanny state attitude.
Same with calling it stupid. Stupid would be doing it not knowing the risks. Believe me these guys know what they're getting into.
I agree the fact that the risks are obvious makes a civil lawsuit less attactive.
As far as criminal regulation goes - there has to be some theoretical limit to what one can legally consent to, even with full foreknowledge, however - I think most people would agree that actual full-on gladatorial sports in which deaths and injuries are expected should not be legal, even if totally voluntary with perfect knowledge of the dangers.
Difficult to draw the line though.
There has always been this blurry line in sports when conduct on the field could potentially become criminal.
Many sports include as part of their routine conduct acts of violence which would obviously be assault outside the sport. When do those acts of violence cross the line and become criminal acts due to their not really being part of the actual sport?
If in the heat of the moment of a live steel match, I hack at someone neck in a manner that is clearly a violation of the rules of the sport, have I just broken the rules, or did I just commit assault - maybe even homicide if I kill someone in the process?
Quote from: Berkut on May 13, 2013, 02:10:21 PM
There has always been this blurry line in sports when conduct on the field could potentially become criminal.
Many sports include as part of their routine conduct acts of violence which would obviously be assault outside the sport. When do those acts of violence cross the line and become criminal acts due to their not really being part of the actual sport?
If in the heat of the moment of a live steel match, I hack at someone neck in a manner that is clearly a violation of the rules of the sport, have I just broken the rules, or did I just commit assault - maybe even homicide if I kill someone in the process?
There has been litigation about on-field (or on-ice) violence, and when it reaches the point of criminal prosecutions. The actions have to be well beyond what would be expected in the course of the game.
R v Bertuzzi is probably the most famous:
http://www.canlii.org/en/bc/bcpc/doc/2004/2004bcpc472/2004bcpc472.html
Quote from: Tonitrus on May 13, 2013, 11:59:22 AM
It's not really worse than bungee-jumping or sky diving. Both will kill you without the right/working equipment.
What :lol:
Quote from: Barrister on May 13, 2013, 01:16:10 PM
I agree with Meri in that I think the risk of concussions is going to be what is dangerous in this sport.
Where I disagree with Meri is that I think the risk of concussions is HUGE. She even admits that they are "not uncommon". That is not a good thing.
There was a story in the news this morning about how the family of Derek Boogaard was suing the NHL. Boogaard was a hockey enforcer for several years - which meant he fought. A lot. Then he died of a drug overdose. Autopsy revealed he suffered from chronic traumatic encephalopathy, caused by blows to the head. Also there are several thousand former NFL players suing the NFL - all about head trauma.
The more we learn about head trauma, the worse it seems. A lot of what we thought about the risks of concussions has turned out to be far understating them.
Now this is going on in Eastern Europe, which is one thing. BUt I doubt it'll get much traction in North America. If it ever did it would be sued out of existence within a efw years.
BB--I think you miss a key dynamic. Football and hockey are vunerable to lawsuits because there are deep pockets. This is a sport that is (I presume) basically non commercial. If they just keep the umbrella enthusiast organizations thinly capitalized there will not be a party worth suing.
Boxing has been very popular in North America for over a century. Concussion lawsuits have not gotten traction, despite the fact that post concussion problems associated with the sport have been known almost as long (being "punch drunk"). Why? There aren't deep pockets.
Quote from: alfred russel on May 13, 2013, 03:15:23 PM
Quote from: Barrister on May 13, 2013, 01:16:10 PM
I agree with Meri in that I think the risk of concussions is going to be what is dangerous in this sport.
Where I disagree with Meri is that I think the risk of concussions is HUGE. She even admits that they are "not uncommon". That is not a good thing.
There was a story in the news this morning about how the family of Derek Boogaard was suing the NHL. Boogaard was a hockey enforcer for several years - which meant he fought. A lot. Then he died of a drug overdose. Autopsy revealed he suffered from chronic traumatic encephalopathy, caused by blows to the head. Also there are several thousand former NFL players suing the NFL - all about head trauma.
The more we learn about head trauma, the worse it seems. A lot of what we thought about the risks of concussions has turned out to be far understating them.
Now this is going on in Eastern Europe, which is one thing. BUt I doubt it'll get much traction in North America. If it ever did it would be sued out of existence within a efw years.
BB--I think you miss a key dynamic. Football and hockey are vunerable to lawsuits because there are deep pockets. This is a sport that is (I presume) basically non commercial. If they just keep the umbrella enthusiast organizations thinly capitalized there will not be a party worth suing.
Boxing has been very popular in North America for over a century. Concussion lawsuits have not gotten traction, despite the fact that post concussion problems associated with the sport have been known almost as long (being "punch drunk"). Why? There aren't deep pockets.
Insurance.
I agree there are no deep pockets here. But any kind of event organizer is going to try and get liability insurance (there are any number of incidents off the field of battle that could lead to lawsuits against organizers). But their premiums could go through the rough...
Quote from: Barrister on May 13, 2013, 03:23:08 PM
Insurance.
I agree there are no deep pockets here. But any kind of event organizer is going to try and get liability insurance (there are any number of incidents off the field of battle that could lead to lawsuits against organizers). But their premiums could go through the rough...
I'm not the lawyer here, but why not just organize as a non profit and obtain limited insurance that excludes the combat/weapon related stuff? If someone gets killed/maimed and you get sued, then declare bankruptcy, dissolve, and reorganize for next year...