Okay, this is going to be a list. English Language books that should be read if by everyone, or at least someone who wants to be slightly cultured. Okay, some ground rules. This should be literature and thus fiction. We aren't doing poetry today, (maybe another thread later on), so lets keep it on prose. Short stories are fair game, though you should give the book in which the short story is published. Translations are okay. Let's put plays in with poetry and do it later. Lets keep away from Star Wars novels and other dreck. I think that should be enough for now.
I already know what Spellus will write so use I'll his choice as an example: Moby Dick.
I was thinking of starting to read Graham Greene, and wonder if anyone would vouch for him.
I'm just going to throw a few out there. Not sure if you need to read them to be "cultured", but certainly some books that everyone would enjoy.
In no particular order:
The Wind in the Willows
Chronicles of Narnia
The Lord of the Rings
Fear and Loathing in Las Vegas
Animal Farm
The Hunt for Red October
Generation X
Adventures of Sherlock Holmes
Meh - just a random list of books I like I guess. I could spend some time with it and come up with better.
Some of the shit I read. Off the top of the head;
The Mote in God's Eye
Of Mice and Men
Lord of the Flies
The Hobbit
Dune
The Forever War
I Am Legend
Red Badge of Courage
The Once and Future King
The Hitchhiker's Guide to the Galaxy
The Three Musketeers
Count of Monte Cristo
Book of Enoch
The Wind in the Willows was an excellent choice. To that, i'd think to add A Confederacy of Dunces
The Three Musketeers and Monte Cristo are English Literature? in which parallel universe?
Adding to the already cited books, I'd say:
Alice in Wonderland
American Pastoral
Poe's Tales of the Grotesque
Barney's Version
In Cold Blood
Twain's Tom Sawyer and Huckleberry Finn
Dickens' Oliver Twist and David Copperfield
and many more.
L.
Quote from: Pedrito on April 30, 2013, 02:00:34 AM
The Three Musketeers and Monte Cristo are English Literature? in which parallel universe?
Adding to the already cited books, I'd say:
Alice in Wonderland
American Pastoral
Poe's Tales of the Grotesque
Barney's Version
In Cold Blood
Twain's Tom Sawyer and Huckleberry Finn
Dickens' Oliver Twist and David Copperfield
and many more.
L.
QuoteTranslations are okay
Quote from: 11B4V on April 30, 2013, 02:10:12 AM
Quote from: Pedrito on April 30, 2013, 02:00:34 AM
The Three Musketeers and Monte Cristo are English Literature? in which parallel universe?
Adding to the already cited books, I'd say:
Alice in Wonderland
American Pastoral
Poe's Tales of the Grotesque
Barney's Version
In Cold Blood
Twain's Tom Sawyer and Huckleberry Finn
Dickens' Oliver Twist and David Copperfield
and many more.
L.
QuoteTranslations are okay
I'm doubting my reading comprehension skills.
L.
Quote from: 11B4V on April 30, 2013, 02:10:12 AM
QuoteTranslations are okay
I got to agree with Pedrito, the inclusion of translations doesn't make sense.
I assumed he meant it's ok to read the English language book in one's own tongue. Otherwise, what's the point of the language distinction.
"Cultured" Essentials(trying to divorce my own feelings as much as possible from creating this list)
A good smattering of Shakespeare(particularly Hamlet, Othello and MacBeth)
Huckleberry Finn
Moby Dick
At least one work by Dickens
At least one work by Hardy
Paradise Lost
Canterbury Tales
Lord of the Rings
At least one work by Poe
Pride and Prejudice
Frankenstein
A work by Hemingway or Fitzgerald
One of Doyle's Sherlock Holmes stories
Graham Greene's great.
I'd recommend Nabokov for some of the most languagey English language books :wub:
Quote from: Sheilbh on April 30, 2013, 04:15:00 AM
Graham Greene's great.
I'd recommend Nabokov for some of the most languagey English language books :wub:
Conrad's Heart of Darkness
W.S. Maugham, mainly The Razor's Edge, but I find myself liking almost everything he's written.
Rushdie, Midnight's Children
L.
Gor
Moby Dick
Paradise Lost
The Road
Lolita
Portrait of Dorien Gray
The Anne of Green Gables Series (yes, even you guys should read it)
I Know Why the Caged Bird Sings
Great Expectations
Grapes of Wrath (however much I personally dislike the book, I think it's essential reading)
The Old Man and the Sea (I really like this book)
The Vicar of Wakefield
The Tenant of Wildfell Hall
Jane Eyre
Olive Twist
The Color Purple
Zen and the Art of Motorcycle Maintenance
1984
Animal Farm
A Soldier of the Great War
Intruder in the Dust
To Kill a Mockingbird
The Great Gatsby
Ivanhoe
The Human Stain
Hornblower and the Atropos
The Prisoner of Zenda
The Hound of the Baskervilles
The Crying of Lot 49
Catch-22
Quote from: merithyn on April 30, 2013, 08:15:34 AM
Grapes of Wrath (however much I personally dislike the book, I think it's essential reading)
I'm the same although I don't know why it's essential reading. For me learning about the Depression and Dust Bowl + reading horrific news around the world today served the same purpose.
That said, I haven't read it since the summer between sophmore and junior year in high school. -_-
Quote from: garbon on April 30, 2013, 09:05:27 AM
Quote from: merithyn on April 30, 2013, 08:15:34 AM
Grapes of Wrath (however much I personally dislike the book, I think it's essential reading)
I'm the same although I don't know why it's essential reading. For me learning about the Depression and Dust Bowl + reading horrific news around the world today served the same purpose.
That said, I haven't read it since the summer between sophmore and junior year in high school. -_-
For some, hearing personal stories about the Depression and the Dust Bowl makes the history more real. In addition, the personal choices that occurred throughout the book, I think, makes one seriously consider what he or she may have done or not done under the circumstances.
I just think it could have been said in fewer words. :sleep:
Pride & Prejudice
Vanity Fair
Middlemarch
Nineteen Eighty-Four
To The Lighthouse
(Definitely not anything by Edith Wharton :x)
Atlas Shrugged :ph34r:
Quote from: jimmy olsen on April 30, 2013, 03:29:06 AM
Quote from: 11B4V on April 30, 2013, 02:10:12 AM
QuoteTranslations are okay
I got to agree with Pedrito, the inclusion of translations doesn't make sense.
It's about shit people who speak English can read, not some statement on English literature.
Quote from: garbon on April 30, 2013, 09:13:08 AM
(Definitely not anything by Edith Wharton :x)
No love for Ethan Frome, huh?
How about the King James Bible? It had quite a cultural impact.
Quote from: merithyn on April 30, 2013, 09:24:30 AM
Quote from: garbon on April 30, 2013, 09:13:08 AM
(Definitely not anything by Edith Wharton :x)
No love for Ethan Frome, huh?
I've only read The Age of Innocence and The House of Mirth. After both, I wanted my time and money back. -_-
Watership Down. :wub:
Bunnies. :wub:
Quote from: alfred russel on April 30, 2013, 09:26:11 AM
How about the King James Bible? It had quite a cultural impact.
Putting the bible down as fiction...no I'm not touching that one. :zipped:
Quote from: alfred russel on April 30, 2013, 09:26:11 AM
How about the King James Bible? It had quite a cultural impact.
Its a translation and so considerable debate as to whether it should be included. Also a bad translation.
Quote from: crazy canuck on April 30, 2013, 09:39:55 AM
Quote from: alfred russel on April 30, 2013, 09:26:11 AM
How about the King James Bible? It had quite a cultural impact.
Its a translation and so considerable debate as to whether it should be included. Also a bad translation.
It may be inaccurate, but the language is certainly magisterial and as a work it is stupendous.
Mark Twain's Huckleberry Finn, Puddin' Head Wilson, and a Yankee in King Arthur's Court
Arthur Miller's Death of a Salesman
Frank Herbert's Dune
Ts Eliot's Murder in the Cathedral
Hemingway's Short Happy Life of Francis Macomber
Roth's Goodbye Columbus
Lee's To Kill a Mockingbird
Rand's Atlas Shrugged and Fountainhead
Orwell's Animal Farm
Huxley's Brave New World (which proved far more prohetic)
Tolkien's Lord of the Rings
If we expanded into non fiction I would add
Tuchman's Guns of August and
Frankyl's Man's search for Meaning
Quote from: sbr on April 30, 2013, 09:21:29 AM
It's about shit people who speak English can read, not some statement on English literature.
That's not how most are interpreting it, else we'd be seeing War and Peace, Crime and Punishment, Les Miserables, Don Quixote, etc.
Quote from: Peter Wiggin on April 30, 2013, 10:02:03 AM
Quote from: sbr on April 30, 2013, 09:21:29 AM
It's about shit people who speak English can read, not some statement on English literature.
That's not how most are interpreting it, else we'd be seeing War and Peace, Crime and Punishment, Les Miserables, Don Quixote, etc.
I agree the "translations" bit is confusing. If it was just works translated into English - then you could just get away with "Books Everyone Should Read"
Quote from: Rasputin on April 30, 2013, 10:00:40 AM
Rand's Atlas Shrugged and Fountainhead
:bleeding:
I tried. I seriously tried... but I couldn't do it. Both of those novels bored me to absolute tears.
Quote from: garbon on April 30, 2013, 10:04:27 AM
Quote from: Peter Wiggin on April 30, 2013, 10:02:03 AM
Quote from: sbr on April 30, 2013, 09:21:29 AM
It's about shit people who speak English can read, not some statement on English literature.
That's not how most are interpreting it, else we'd be seeing War and Peace, Crime and Punishment, Les Miserables, Don Quixote, etc.
So what's the ruling from the OP?
I agree the "translations" bit is confusing. If it was just works translated into English - then you could just get away with "Books Everyone Should Read"
The rules for SPI's Campaign for North Africa.
Quote from: crazy canuck on April 30, 2013, 09:39:55 AM
Quote from: alfred russel on April 30, 2013, 09:26:11 AM
How about the King James Bible? It had quite a cultural impact.
Its a translation and so considerable debate as to whether it should be included. Also a bad translation.
All versions of the Bible are translations. The KJV in particular can reasonably claim to be a standalone work of English literature.
Quote from: garbon on April 30, 2013, 10:04:27 AM
Quote from: Peter Wiggin on April 30, 2013, 10:02:03 AM
Quote from: sbr on April 30, 2013, 09:21:29 AM
It's about shit people who speak English can read, not some statement on English literature.
That's not how most are interpreting it, else we'd be seeing War and Peace, Crime and Punishment, Les Miserables, Don Quixote, etc.
I agree the "translations" bit is confusing. If it was just works translated into English - then you could just get away with "Books Everyone Should Read"
There are so few important ones, I didn't think it would be a major thing. I certainly wouldn't be adding another thread devoted to translated works. Besides, some people couldn't follow the simple rules I posted as is. We already got plays and poems put in.
Quote from: Razgovory on April 30, 2013, 10:49:19 AM
Quote from: garbon on April 30, 2013, 10:04:27 AM
Quote from: Peter Wiggin on April 30, 2013, 10:02:03 AM
Quote from: sbr on April 30, 2013, 09:21:29 AM
It's about shit people who speak English can read, not some statement on English literature.
That's not how most are interpreting it, else we'd be seeing War and Peace, Crime and Punishment, Les Miserables, Don Quixote, etc.
I agree the "translations" bit is confusing. If it was just works translated into English - then you could just get away with "Books Everyone Should Read"
There are so few important ones, I didn't think it would be a major thing. I certainly wouldn't be adding another thread devoted to translated works. Besides, some people couldn't follow the simple rules I posted as is. We already got plays and poems put in.
:huh:
There are tons of famous works that were translated into English.
Quote from: The Minsky Moment on April 30, 2013, 10:48:17 AM
Quote from: crazy canuck on April 30, 2013, 09:39:55 AM
Quote from: alfred russel on April 30, 2013, 09:26:11 AM
How about the King James Bible? It had quite a cultural impact.
Its a translation and so considerable debate as to whether it should be included. Also a bad translation.
All versions of the Bible are translations.
No shit Sherlock
Pretty sure Sherlock isn't.
Quote from: PDH on April 30, 2013, 10:47:18 AM
The rules for SPI's Campaign for North Africa.
:lol:
Quote from: Razgovory on April 30, 2013, 10:49:19 AM
Besides, some people couldn't follow the simple rules I posted as is. We already got plays and poems put in.
Because a discussion of essential works of English literature that doesn't include Shakespeare is ridiculous. :contract:
Quote from: garbon on April 30, 2013, 10:51:31 AM
Quote from: Razgovory on April 30, 2013, 10:49:19 AM
Quote from: garbon on April 30, 2013, 10:04:27 AM
Quote from: Peter Wiggin on April 30, 2013, 10:02:03 AM
Quote from: sbr on April 30, 2013, 09:21:29 AM
It's about shit people who speak English can read, not some statement on English literature.
That's not how most are interpreting it, else we'd be seeing War and Peace, Crime and Punishment, Les Miserables, Don Quixote, etc.
I agree the "translations" bit is confusing. If it was just works translated into English - then you could just get away with "Books Everyone Should Read"
There are so few important ones, I didn't think it would be a major thing. I certainly wouldn't be adding another thread devoted to translated works. Besides, some people couldn't follow the simple rules I posted as is. We already got plays and poems put in.
:huh:
There are tons of famous works that were translated into English.
If there are tons, list 512.
Well, the King James Bible gives you 66 right there.
Quote from: Razgovory on April 30, 2013, 11:34:35 AM
If there are tons, list 512.
Have fun
http://www.goodreads.com/shelf/show/translated
Quote from: 11B4V on April 30, 2013, 11:10:03 AM
Quote from: PDH on April 30, 2013, 10:47:18 AM
The rules for SPI's Campaign for North Africa.
:lol:
The complete Star Fleet Battles rule book. In a binder.
Quote from: crazy canuck on April 30, 2013, 11:37:51 AM
Quote from: Razgovory on April 30, 2013, 11:34:35 AM
If there are tons, list 512.
Have fun
http://www.goodreads.com/shelf/show/translated
You area not garbon, and I asked him to list them. On this this board. Exactly 512 of them.
Quote from: Razgovory on April 30, 2013, 11:42:28 AM
Quote from: crazy canuck on April 30, 2013, 11:37:51 AM
Quote from: Razgovory on April 30, 2013, 11:34:35 AM
If there are tons, list 512.
Have fun
http://www.goodreads.com/shelf/show/translated
You area not garbon, and I asked him to list them. On this this board. Exactly 512 of them.
I need a translation
Ulysses
The Natural
Henderson the Rain King
Quote from: fahdiz on April 30, 2013, 12:07:19 PM
Ulysses
Does anyone actually get through that and understand it?
Quote from: crazy canuck on April 30, 2013, 12:12:40 PM
Quote from: fahdiz on April 30, 2013, 12:07:19 PM
Ulysses
Does anyone actually get through that and understand it?
I did and do not ascribe to myself any preternatural powers, so I assume others must be capable of it as well.
Quote from: crazy canuck on April 30, 2013, 12:12:40 PM
Quote from: fahdiz on April 30, 2013, 12:07:19 PM
Ulysses
Does anyone actually get through that and understand it?
I did, but it was a long slog with a good bit of explanation in side notes as I went along. Gotta love the American education system. :)
Quote from: Razgovory on April 30, 2013, 10:49:19 AM
There are so few important ones, I didn't think it would be a major thing. I certainly wouldn't be adding another thread devoted to translated works. Besides, some people couldn't follow the simple rules I posted as is. We already got plays and poems put in.
:lmfao:
Quote from: crazy canuck on April 30, 2013, 11:42:59 AM
Quote from: Razgovory on April 30, 2013, 11:42:28 AM
Quote from: crazy canuck on April 30, 2013, 11:37:51 AM
Quote from: Razgovory on April 30, 2013, 11:34:35 AM
If there are tons, list 512.
Have fun
http://www.goodreads.com/shelf/show/translated
You area not garbon, and I asked him to list them. On this this board. Exactly 512 of them.
I need a translation
He's obfuscating as he's realizing he said something stupid.
Quote from: Maladict on April 30, 2013, 01:22:43 PM
Quote from: Razgovory on April 30, 2013, 10:49:19 AM
There are so few important ones, I didn't think it would be a major thing. I certainly wouldn't be adding another thread devoted to translated works. Besides, some people couldn't follow the simple rules I posted as is. We already got plays and poems put in.
:lmfao:
Don't you know all literature worth reading originated in the UK or the US?
Quote from: garbon on April 30, 2013, 01:25:44 PM
Quote from: Maladict on April 30, 2013, 01:22:43 PM
Quote from: Razgovory on April 30, 2013, 10:49:19 AM
There are so few important ones, I didn't think it would be a major thing. I certainly wouldn't be adding another thread devoted to translated works. Besides, some people couldn't follow the simple rules I posted as is. We already got plays and poems put in.
:lmfao:
Don't you know all literature worth reading originated in the UK or the US?
Absolutely, I'm not sure why they even bothered to translate non English works.
Quote from: Maladict on April 30, 2013, 01:30:51 PM
Quote from: garbon on April 30, 2013, 01:25:44 PM
Quote from: Maladict on April 30, 2013, 01:22:43 PM
Quote from: Razgovory on April 30, 2013, 10:49:19 AM
There are so few important ones, I didn't think it would be a major thing. I certainly wouldn't be adding another thread devoted to translated works. Besides, some people couldn't follow the simple rules I posted as is. We already got plays and poems put in.
:lmfao:
Don't you know all literature worth reading originated in the UK or the US?
Absolutely, I'm not sure why they even bothered to translate non English works.
English speakers were curious about uncivilized heathens.
Quote from: Caliga on April 30, 2013, 01:33:25 PM
Quote from: crazy canuck on April 30, 2013, 12:12:40 PM
Quote from: fahdiz on April 30, 2013, 12:07:19 PM
Ulysses
Does anyone actually get through that and understand it?
I loved it. :hmm:
You are a better man than I. I found it to be a dreadful slog. I know I am supposed to say it is wonderful and all that. But really, I cant bring myself to say it nor do I know why others say it is so.
Quote from: Razgovory on April 30, 2013, 10:49:19 AM
Besides, some people couldn't follow the simple rules I posted as is. We already got plays and poems put in.
You're not the boss of me.
Quote from: crazy canuck on April 30, 2013, 01:34:54 PM
You are a better man than I. I found it to be a dreadful slog. I know I am supposed to say it is wonderful and all that. But really, I cant bring myself to say it nor do I know why others say it is so.
I just thought it was neat how he wrote it. FWIW as I recall he did that on purpose knowing it would get his book more attention, and it obviously worked.
I haven't finished Ulysses, but I have an annotated copy that has a long preface about the genesis of the work. Apparently Joyce had made a detailed spreadsheet of motifs and ideas per chapter that he followed meticulously. However, no one seemed to "get it", so he got so frustrated that eventually, years after the books was published, he released that information.
Quote from: Syt on April 30, 2013, 01:45:10 PM
I haven't finished Ulysses, but I have an annotated copy that has a long preface about the genesis of the work. Apparently Joyce had made a detailed spreadsheet of motifs and ideas per chapter that he followed meticulously. However, no one seemed to "get it", so he got so frustrated that eventually, years after the books was published, he released that information.
That's the book that I read, too. :)
Malcolm Lowry, Under the Volcano. Written in the late 40s (in B.C., no less :Canuck:), a hallucinogenic exploration of one day (the last day) in the life of a severely alcoholic British consul in Mexico in 1936. Lowry's own alcoholism unfortunately reduced his output (and lifespan) a lot, so this is one lasting achievement, though other writings by him are great as well. He has a very tragicomic novella about being picked up having the DTs on the NYC waterfront and being locked in Bellevue.
Raymond Carver, What We Talk About When We Talk About Love, Will You Please Be Quiet, Please?, Cathedral short-story collections. It's kind of love it or loathe it with Carver, though I think he gets a bad rap cause of the prominence of his less talented imitators, to this day, but esp. in the 80s. All the stories were the process of an intense back and forth between Carver, who wanted the stories to be a little more expansive, and his very talented editor Gordon Lish, who used the scapel on them until they became the modern life fragments they are famous for.
Anything by Jim Thompson during the 50s. Nobody captured the the deranged and perverse in the American psyche than these hilarious pulp novels, written by a true pulp individual. [Hmm, my list is all bad alcoholics at this point. :hmm:]
Tropic of Cancer, Tropic of Capricorn, or the one I actually like best Black Spring, by Henry Miller. Written in the 1930s by a Brooklynite telegram clerk who, around age 40 in the late 1920s, went over to live a poor and filthy expat life in Paris, the flip side of Fitzgerald et al's experience. Tropic of Cancer was banned in the US for its sexual descriptions for years, and only made an impact here after Grove Press brought it out and had a big court case about it. [EDIT: Not an alky! :)]
Quote from: garbon on April 30, 2013, 01:25:44 PM
Don't you know all literature worth reading originated in the UK or the US?
Not all of it, some was written by Americans living in Paris. ;)
Quote from: Peter Wiggin on April 30, 2013, 02:23:40 PM
Quote from: garbon on April 30, 2013, 01:25:44 PM
Don't you know all literature worth reading originated in the UK or the US?
Not all of it, some was written by Americans living in Paris. ;)
Like an embassy they had a halo of US/UK around them protecting them from the unwashed masses. :goodboy:
Trying not to duplicate anything that's already been mentioned:
Gulliver's Travels by Johnathon Swift
Foundation, by Isaac Asimov
As I get older, I become less concerned about the books I've yet to read and more interested in the story I've so far told.
A Tree Grows in Brooklyn
The Aubrey/Maturin series
To Kill a Mockingbird
One Flew Over the Cuckoo's Nest
For Whom the Bell Tolls
The Comedians
Mating
Quote from: mongers on April 30, 2013, 06:35:48 PM
As I get older, I become less concerned about the books I've yet to read and more interested in the story I've so far told.
I don't think Shitditch will be a bestseller. :console:
Quote from: Scipio on April 30, 2013, 09:54:26 AM
It may be inaccurate, but the language is certainly magisterial and as a work it is stupendous.
Yep. And there's always the old argument of what translation is for. You need, say, Heaney's Beowulf and a more literal almost transliteration. Both have their place. One's trying to make a work of art into art in another language, the other is to enable study and proximity to the other.
QuoteI did and do not ascribe to myself any preternatural powers, so I assume others must be capable of it as well.
Yep. I loved it.
For me I think The Sea, The Sea or another Murdoch (maybe The Bell, or Sacred and Profane Love Machine both of which I love) would be a must-read. Murdoch and Greene are probably the two authors I force most on other people.
Can you give me an Amen!
Quote from: Pedrito on April 30, 2013, 02:00:34 AM
The Three Musketeers and Monte Cristo are English Literature? in which parallel universe?
Well, they were originally written in a dead language. All works of consequence are English works.
Silly people. Monte Cristo is a sandwich.
Pre-internet sci-fi. That's what people should be reading.
Explains sooo much about you Fhdz
Quote from: katmai on May 01, 2013, 02:06:27 AM
Explains sooo much about you Fhdz
Unfortunately, James Joyce wrote the explanation so he remains a mystery to normal folk.
Quote from: Neil on April 30, 2013, 09:10:45 PM
Pre-internet sci-fi. That's what people should be reading.
Asimov always gave me a headache. Then again, I stopped trying to read him in 7th grade.
Quote from: katmai on May 01, 2013, 02:06:27 AM
Explains sooo much about you Fhdz
Doesn't it?
I think I'll go as Buck Mulligan for Halloween this year. THINK ANYBODY WILL GET IT LOLZ