Hey Valmy- is there going to be any kind of political fallout or consequence for the explosion in West, Texas?
http://www.washingtonpost.com/opinions/mike-elk-the-texas-fertilizer-plant-explosion-cannot-be-forgotten/2013/04/23/48eb770c-ac26-11e2-b6fd-ba6f5f26d70e_story.html
QuoteThe plant had 1,350 times the legally allowed amount of highly explosive ammonium nitrate, yet hadn't informed the Department of Homeland Security of the danger. Likewise, the fertilizer plant did not have sprinklers, shut-off valves, fire alarms or legally required blast walls, all of which could have prevented the catastrophic damage done.
And there was little chance that regulators would learn about the problems without the company reporting them: Not only had the Occupational Safety and Health Administration not inspected the plant since 1985 but also, because of underfunding, OSHA can inspect plants like the one in West on average only once every 129 years.
QuoteIn 2011, 4,609 Americans were killed in workplace accidents while only 17 Americans died at the hands of terrorists — about the same number as were crushed to death by their televisions or furniture.
Quote from: Jacob on April 25, 2013, 10:27:19 PM
QuoteIn 2011, 4,609 Americans were killed in workplace accidents while only 17 Americans died at the hands of terrorists — about the same number as were crushed to death by their televisions or furniture.
Thank God for Liberty.
This issue was brought up in the original ZOMG FURTALIZER ESPLOSION thread.
Quote from: CountDeMoney on April 25, 2013, 10:48:37 PM
This issue was brought up in the original ZOMG FURTALIZER ESPLOSION thread.
What was the answer?
That things like federal regulation and mandatory safety standards interfere with freedomness and libertytude, so don't mess with Texas.
Quote from: Jacob on April 25, 2013, 11:12:40 PM
Quote from: CountDeMoney on April 25, 2013, 10:48:37 PM
This issue was brought up in the original ZOMG FURTALIZER ESPLOSION thread.
What was the answer?
America, fuck yeah!
Quote from: Scipio on April 25, 2013, 11:16:33 PM
Quote from: Jacob on April 25, 2013, 11:12:40 PM
Quote from: CountDeMoney on April 25, 2013, 10:48:37 PM
This issue was brought up in the original ZOMG FURTALIZER ESPLOSION thread.
What was the answer?
America, fuck yeah!
Aren't you a full blown libertarian? :yeahright:
Quote from: jimmy olsen on April 26, 2013, 12:04:47 AMAren't you a full blown libertarian? :yeahright:
That's between him and his significant other.
... so is the summary that a complete erosion of regulation and oversight is inevitable in the current political climate, so you'll just take the assorted deaths and maimings? Or do you figure that various law-suits will correct the most egregious problems over the course of time?
I think the plan is to take the assorted deaths and maiming. I guess we could have congressional hearings to find out why Congress saw fit to underfund OSHA. Then maybe we could have Rand Paul stand before congress to tell Rand Paul that if he was Rand Paul he would demand Rand Paul's resignation.
I don't think it much different in Canada. Over 6 years I've had 2 jobs in manufacturing plants. Not explosives, but dangerous heavy machinery and huge potential for fires. I've yet to see any inspection. The closest I can think of was at my last place. Regulators called asking if we had put up guarding on the machinery. We said nope. They said regulations have been in place and we should have had guarding up for five years. We said were working on it. They said let us know when you're done :lol: then there was the unventilated painting line, which sucked. Paint came with giant warning about the health hazard of the fumes. Oh, and the welding line was right next to it Safe!
Quote from: HVC on April 26, 2013, 08:24:42 AM
I don't think it much different in Canada. Over 6 years I've had 2 jobs in manufacturing plants. Not explosives, but dangerous heavy machinery and huge potential for fires. I've yet to see any inspection. The closest I can think of was at my last place. Regulators called asking if we had put up guarding on the machinery. We said nope. They said regulations have been in place and we should have had guarding up for five years. We said were working on it. They said let us know when you're done :lol: then there was the unventilated painting line, which sucked. Paint came with giant warning about the health hazard of the fumes. Oh, and the welding line was right next to it Safe!
That is troubling. In Canada health and saftey regulation falls mainly within the jurisdiction of the Provinces - unless it is a Federal Undertaking. Dont ask what that is, the answer gets a bit long.
In this Province these sorts of things would normally be met with fines and potential criminal prosecution (under the Provincial Statute) for the directors of the company if any death or injury occurred because of the violations.
Why does Canada want to stifle business?
If people don't want to work for a company that uses unsafe practices they should just find another job.
Quote from: sbr on April 26, 2013, 11:01:02 AM
Why does Canada want to stifle business?
Why does the US want to stifle life?
It's the American way.
Unless a brown person can be blamed, then it's srs bsnss.
Quote from: crazy canuck on April 26, 2013, 10:53:50 AM
That is troubling. In Canada health and saftey regulation falls mainly within the jurisdiction of the Provinces - unless it is a Federal Undertaking. Dont ask what that is, the answer gets a bit long.
In this Province these sorts of things would normally be met with fines and potential criminal prosecution (under the Provincial Statute) for the directors of the company if any death or injury occurred because of the violations.
Yeah, that is troubling.
Though I still have faith that if the place HVC worked actually blew up and killed a bunch of people, that would be a major scandal leading to new legislation, more stringent enforcement across the board, some sort of inquiry, and most likely several people losing their jobs.
Quote from: HVC on April 26, 2013, 08:24:42 AM
I don't think it much different in Canada. Over 6 years I've had 2 jobs in manufacturing plants. Not explosives, but dangerous heavy machinery and huge potential for fires. I've yet to see any inspection. The closest I can think of was at my last place. Regulators called asking if we had put up guarding on the machinery. We said nope. They said regulations have been in place and we should have had guarding up for five years. We said were working on it. They said let us know when you're done :lol: then there was the unventilated painting line, which sucked. Paint came with giant warning about the health hazard of the fumes. Oh, and the welding line was right next to it Safe!
They're all in Quebec checking construction site, inspecting ladders and other trivial issues.
Quote from: viper37 on April 26, 2013, 12:49:26 PM
Quote from: HVC on April 26, 2013, 08:24:42 AM
I don't think it much different in Canada. Over 6 years I've had 2 jobs in manufacturing plants. Not explosives, but dangerous heavy machinery and huge potential for fires. I've yet to see any inspection. The closest I can think of was at my last place. Regulators called asking if we had put up guarding on the machinery. We said nope. They said regulations have been in place and we should have had guarding up for five years. We said were working on it. They said let us know when you're done :lol: then there was the unventilated painting line, which sucked. Paint came with giant warning about the health hazard of the fumes. Oh, and the welding line was right next to it Safe!
They're all in Quebec checking construction site, inspecting ladders and other trivial issues.
oh construction gets scrutinized heavily here too. But usually by the unions trying slow down construction by storms of paper to extort the building company.
As for my experience its only a sample size of 2, maybe they've just fallen through the cracks.
Has Jim Stone explained what really happened?
QuoteThe plant had 1,350 times the legally allowed amount of highly explosive ammonium nitrate, yet hadn't informed the Department of Homeland Security of the danger.
That's sort of like saying someone has been robbing convenience stores for years, yet hadn't informed the local police department. Of course most people doing something illegal don't report themselves to the authorities. D'oh.
Quote from: dps on April 26, 2013, 04:34:33 PM
QuoteThe plant had 1,350 times the legally allowed amount of highly explosive ammonium nitrate, yet hadn't informed the Department of Homeland Security of the danger.
That's sort of like saying someone has been robbing convenience stores for years, yet hadn't informed the local police department. Of course most people doing something illegal don't report themselves to the authorities. D'oh.
I don't follow.
Quote from: The Brain on April 26, 2013, 04:49:41 PM
Quote from: dps on April 26, 2013, 04:34:33 PM
QuoteThe plant had 1,350 times the legally allowed amount of highly explosive ammonium nitrate, yet hadn’t informed the Department of Homeland Security of the danger.
That's sort of like saying someone has been robbing convenience stores for years, yet hadn't informed the local police department. Of course most people doing something illegal don't report themselves to the authorities. D'oh.
I don't follow.
So, you consider yourself a natural leader?
Quote from: dps on April 26, 2013, 05:08:13 PM
Quote from: The Brain on April 26, 2013, 04:49:41 PM
Quote from: dps on April 26, 2013, 04:34:33 PM
QuoteThe plant had 1,350 times the legally allowed amount of highly explosive ammonium nitrate, yet hadn't informed the Department of Homeland Security of the danger.
That's sort of like saying someone has been robbing convenience stores for years, yet hadn't informed the local police department. Of course most people doing something illegal don't report themselves to the authorities. D'oh.
I don't follow.
So, you consider yourself a natural leader?
Not natural, no.
Quote from: dps on April 26, 2013, 04:34:33 PM
That's sort of like saying someone has been robbing convenience stores for years, yet hadn't informed the local police department. Of course most people doing something illegal don't report themselves to the authorities. D'oh.
I doubt anyone will go to prison for this nearly as long as if they had robbed a convenience store.
Quote from: frunk on April 26, 2013, 06:25:50 PM
Quote from: dps on April 26, 2013, 04:34:33 PM
That's sort of like saying someone has been robbing convenience stores for years, yet hadn't informed the local police department. Of course most people doing something illegal don't report themselves to the authorities. D'oh.
I doubt anyone will go to prison for this nearly as long as if they had robbed a convenience store.
Frankly, I'd be surprised if anyone goes to prison for it at all.
What's the legally allowed amount of ammonium nitrate?
Quote from: MadImmortalMan on April 26, 2013, 07:44:10 PM
What's the legally allowed amount of ammonium nitrate?
The West Fertilizer company plant's inventory divided by 1,350.
Quote from: Razgovory on April 26, 2013, 07:55:31 PM
Quote from: MadImmortalMan on April 26, 2013, 07:44:10 PM
What's the legally allowed amount of ammonium nitrate?
The West Fertilizer company plant's inventory divided by 1,350.
Apparantly, that's been accomplished.
:D
Quote from: MadImmortalMan on April 26, 2013, 07:44:10 PM
What's the legally allowed amount of ammonium nitrate?
Over 400lbs needs to be reported to DHS.
I guess they figured anything over 401lbs didn't apply.
Quote from: CountDeMoney on April 26, 2013, 08:33:02 PM
Quote from: MadImmortalMan on April 26, 2013, 07:44:10 PM
What's the legally allowed amount of ammonium nitrate?
Over 400lbs needs to be reported to DHS.
I guess they figured anything over 401lbs didn't apply.
So they had 270 tons or more on-hand.
Quote from: dps on April 26, 2013, 08:37:57 PM
So they had 270 tons or more on-hand.
Ahhhyup.
That's a lot of McVeigh whacking material.
But back to the thread title.
I approve whole-heartedly.
Explosion? Fuck that, it's Fiesta time! Top news right now: Rey Feo was tossed out of the Battle of Flowers parade for throwing beads at the crowd from his float. :D
Quote from: sbr on April 26, 2013, 08:58:48 PM
But back to the thread title.
I approve whole-heartedly.
Poor Valmy.
Quote from: Razgovory on April 26, 2013, 10:39:30 PM
Quote from: sbr on April 26, 2013, 08:58:48 PM
But back to the thread title.
I approve whole-heartedly.
Poor Valmy.
I don't think he counts, he is practically French.
But I want to be a Texan. :cry:
Quote from: Ed Anger on April 27, 2013, 09:27:48 AM
But I want to be a Texan. :cry:
When you start in Ohio almost anything is a upgrade.