http://www.france24.com/en/20130405-us-judge-morning-after-pill-prescription (http://www.france24.com/en/20130405-us-judge-morning-after-pill-prescription)
QuoteUS judge orders 'morning-after' pill available without prescription
The 'morning-after' emergency contraceptive pill must be made available to girls of all ages without prescription, a US federal judge ordered on Friday as part of a lawsuit brought by reproductive-rights groups.
By News Wires (text)
A federal judge on Friday ordered the U.S. Food and Drug Administration to make the "morning-after" emergency contraception pill available without a prescription to all girls of reproductive age.
The ruling by U.S. District Judge Edward Korman in Brooklyn, New York, comes in a lawsuit brought by reproductive-rights groups that had sought to remove age and other restrictions on emergency contraception.
Currently, only women age 17 or older can obtain emergency contraception pills without a prescription. Point-of-sale restrictions require that all women present identification to a pharmacist before obtaining the drug.
In his ruling, Korman said the FDA's rejection of requests to remove age restrictions to obtain the pill had been "arbitrary, capricious and unreasonable."
Nancy Northup, president of the Center for Reproductive Rights, hailed the ruling. "Women all over the country will no longer face arbitrary delays and barriers just to get emergency contraception," she said.
FDA spokeswoman Erica Jefferson declined to comment on the ruling, saying it was an ongoing legal matter.
This has been available for quite a while in France and other countries. Big news 15 or 20 years ago, I don't remember exactly.
Quote from: Duque de Bragança on April 05, 2013, 01:26:59 PM
This has been available for quite a while in France and other countries. Big news 15 or 20 years ago, I don't remember exactly.
Did you read what has changed?
I was aware of this, but thanks anyway.
Pretty sure it will be overturned.
I don't have any ethical problem with the pill's availability, but it seems like it ought to require a prescription given the side effects.
Quote from: derspiess on April 05, 2013, 01:42:08 PM
I don't have any ethical problem with the pill's availability, but it seems like it ought to require a prescription given the side effects.
Which on some level would defeat the emergency piece.
At any rate - it appears the change here is that now girls 16 and younger can get it without a prescription. Is the ID part being removed as well? Wasn't sure.
Quote from: garbon on April 05, 2013, 01:45:13 PM
Which on some level would defeat the emergency piece.
Right, which is unfortunate. What's your opinion?
Quote from: derspiess on April 05, 2013, 01:48:16 PM
Quote from: garbon on April 05, 2013, 01:45:13 PM
Which on some level would defeat the emergency piece.
Right, which is unfortunate. What's your opinion?
Well are any of the issues cause by it worse than other OTCs?
I guess you could always take some sort of pseudophedrine route.
Quote from: garbon on April 05, 2013, 02:16:08 PM
Quote from: derspiess on April 05, 2013, 01:48:16 PM
Quote from: garbon on April 05, 2013, 01:45:13 PM
Which on some level would defeat the emergency piece.
Right, which is unfortunate. What's your opinion?
Well are any of the issues cause by it worse than other OTCs?
I guess you could always take some sort of pseudophedrine route.
From what I've read, yes.
Given the immediacy thing I suppose in lieu of a prescription I'd be okay with some sort of mandatory consultation where the pharmacist goes over the side effects to make sure the patient or whatever is aware of them.
Quote from: derspiess on April 05, 2013, 01:42:08 PM
I don't have any ethical problem with the pill's availability, but it seems like it ought to require a prescription given the side effects.
WebMD has these as side effects:
Potential side effects of Plan B or Plan B One-Step include:
nausea
abdominal pain
fatigue
headache
menstrual changes
dizziness
breast tenderness
vomiting
diarrhea
None of those seem serious enough to me to warrant a prescription. They're just stronger symptoms than a regular menstrual cycle.
Quote from: derspiess on April 05, 2013, 02:28:07 PM
From what I've read, yes.
Any links? From what I quickly checked didn't see anything major.
Quote from: derspiess on April 05, 2013, 02:28:07 PM
Given the immediacy thing I suppose in lieu of a prescription I'd be okay with some sort of mandatory consultation where the pharmacist goes over the side effects to make sure the patient or whatever is aware of them.
Seems rather unnecessary though. Of course, I've never been a big fan of spending more time at a pharmacy then you have to.
Quote from: derspiess on April 05, 2013, 02:28:07 PM
From what I've read, yes.
Given the immediacy thing I suppose in lieu of a prescription I'd be okay with some sort of mandatory consultation where the pharmacist goes over the side effects to make sure the patient or whatever is aware of them.
If they're sold OTC, the side effects will be required on the packaging. How will consulting with a pharmacist be different than reading them on the box?
Quote from: merithyn on April 05, 2013, 02:32:28 PM
Quote from: derspiess on April 05, 2013, 01:42:08 PM
I don't have any ethical problem with the pill's availability, but it seems like it ought to require a prescription given the side effects.
WebMD has these as side effects:
Potential side effects of Plan B or Plan B One-Step include:
nausea
abdominal pain
fatigue
headache
menstrual changes
dizziness
breast tenderness
vomiting
diarrhea
None of those seem serious enough to me to warrant a prescription. They're just stronger symptoms than a regular menstrual cycle.
If that's the case, we should open the floodgates & make a bunch of other stuff available without prescription.
Quote from: derspiess on April 05, 2013, 02:34:05 PM
If that's the case, we should open the floodgates & make a bunch of other stuff available without prescription.
Help me out here. Which of those do you feel warrants a prescription?
Quote from: merithyn on April 05, 2013, 02:34:05 PM
Quote from: derspiess on April 05, 2013, 02:28:07 PM
From what I've read, yes.
Given the immediacy thing I suppose in lieu of a prescription I'd be okay with some sort of mandatory consultation where the pharmacist goes over the side effects to make sure the patient or whatever is aware of them.
If they're sold OTC, the side effects will be required on the packaging. How will consulting with a pharmacist be different than reading them on the box?
I doubt she'd bother reading them. She's likely in some (understandable) state of panic & wants to take that magic pill that keeps her from getting pregnant.
Quote from: merithyn on April 05, 2013, 02:36:25 PM
Quote from: derspiess on April 05, 2013, 02:34:05 PM
If that's the case, we should open the floodgates & make a bunch of other stuff available without prescription.
Help me out here. Which of those do you feel warrants a prescription?
Not sure I understand what you're asking.
Quote from: derspiess on April 05, 2013, 02:37:41 PM
Not sure I understand what you're asking.
You said that the side effects warrant a prescription. I gave a stated list of side effects, none of which seem very bad to me. You implied that they are still a concern. So, I'm asking you which side effects do you feel are bad enough to warrant the necessity of a prescription.
Btw, I think nausea, vomiting, headache, diarrhea, constipation and dizziness are common side effects of many OTCs, so I'd pull those from the list.
Quote from: merithyn on April 05, 2013, 02:39:49 PM
Quote from: derspiess on April 05, 2013, 02:37:41 PM
Not sure I understand what you're asking.
You said that the side effects warrant a prescription. I gave a stated list of side effects, none of which seem very bad to me. You implied that they are still a concern. So, I'm asking you which side effects do you feel are bad enough to warrant the necessity of a prescription.
They're all more severe than stuff I've taken that does require a prescription.
Quote from: garbon on April 05, 2013, 01:45:13 PM
Quote from: derspiess on April 05, 2013, 01:42:08 PM
I don't have any ethical problem with the pill's availability, but it seems like it ought to require a prescription given the side effects.
Which on some level would defeat the emergency piece.
At any rate - it appears the change here is that now girls 16 and younger can get it without a prescription. Is the ID part being removed as well? Wasn't sure.
But she can't buy booze until she's 21. Like that's not arbitrary.
But let's back up for a second. Don't these pills work sort of like taking multiple dosages of birth control pills? Those still require a prescription, don't they?
Quote from: derspiess on April 05, 2013, 02:45:34 PM
Quote from: merithyn on April 05, 2013, 02:39:49 PM
Quote from: derspiess on April 05, 2013, 02:37:41 PM
Not sure I understand what you're asking.
You said that the side effects warrant a prescription. I gave a stated list of side effects, none of which seem very bad to me. You implied that they are still a concern. So, I'm asking you which side effects do you feel are bad enough to warrant the necessity of a prescription.
They're all more severe than stuff I've taken that does require a prescription.
What stuff?
I ask because though you may not have suffered worse from a prescription, the
potential for worse may have been there. That doesn't appear to be the case here. As I said, that list of side effects is the same list of side effects for having a heavy menstrual cycle, ie they're normal for women.
So I'm trying to understand which side effects are causing you concern; enough so that you'd restrict a medication from someone who needs it without a doctor's approval.
Quote from: derspiess on April 05, 2013, 02:48:06 PM
But let's back up for a second. Don't these pills work sort of like taking multiple dosages of birth control pills? Those still require a prescription, don't they?
They are a strong dose of hormone therapy, which is similar to taking certain types of birth control pills, yes. However, the reason that birth control pills are prescription is to require that women get a yearly check up. No check up; no renewal of your prescription.
There are also some side effects with some pills based on life-style choices, like smoking, that require additional blood tests. Those pills, however, use a combination of hormones, not the single shot that the Plan B pill uses.
Quote from: garbon on April 05, 2013, 02:43:48 PM
Btw, I think nausea, vomiting, headache, diarrhea, constipation and dizziness are common side effects of many OTCs, so I'd pull those from the list.
From the opinion:
"Neither drug [Plan B or Plan B One-Step] has any known serious or long-term side effects, though they may have some mild short-term side effects, such as nausea, fatigue, and headache."
So nothing more than many OTCs.
Further in the opinion:
"[T]he likelihood of unsafe use or misuse with respect to levonorgestrel-based emergency contraceptives is extremely low, and much lower than the dangers of misuse of common over-the-counter medications that are known to be abused by minors and adults, even though these drugs cause hundreds of deaths every year in the United States."
(laxatives and acetaminophen, primarily).
Quote from: merithyn on April 05, 2013, 02:50:26 PM
Quote from: derspiess on April 05, 2013, 02:45:34 PM
Quote from: merithyn on April 05, 2013, 02:39:49 PM
Quote from: derspiess on April 05, 2013, 02:37:41 PM
Not sure I understand what you're asking.
You said that the side effects warrant a prescription. I gave a stated list of side effects, none of which seem very bad to me. You implied that they are still a concern. So, I'm asking you which side effects do you feel are bad enough to warrant the necessity of a prescription.
They're all more severe than stuff I've taken that does require a prescription.
What stuff?
I ask because though you may not have suffered worse from a prescription, the potential for worse may have been there. That doesn't appear to be the case here. As I said, that list of side effects is the same list of side effects for having a heavy menstrual cycle, ie they're normal for women.
So I'm trying to understand which side effects are causing you concern; enough so that you'd restrict a medication from someone who needs it without a doctor's approval.
:rolleyes: Never mind. This is obviously a touchy issue for you.
Quote from: derspiess on April 05, 2013, 02:56:07 PM
Quote from: merithyn on April 05, 2013, 02:50:26 PM
Quote from: derspiess on April 05, 2013, 02:45:34 PM
Quote from: merithyn on April 05, 2013, 02:39:49 PM
Quote from: derspiess on April 05, 2013, 02:37:41 PM
Not sure I understand what you're asking.
You said that the side effects warrant a prescription. I gave a stated list of side effects, none of which seem very bad to me. You implied that they are still a concern. So, I'm asking you which side effects do you feel are bad enough to warrant the necessity of a prescription.
They're all more severe than stuff I've taken that does require a prescription.
What stuff?
I ask because though you may not have suffered worse from a prescription, the potential for worse may have been there. That doesn't appear to be the case here. As I said, that list of side effects is the same list of side effects for having a heavy menstrual cycle, ie they're normal for women.
So I'm trying to understand which side effects are causing you concern; enough so that you'd restrict a medication from someone who needs it without a doctor's approval.
:rolleyes: Never mind. This is obviously a touchy issue for you.
:huh:
What part of the above makes you think so? I'm trying to understand your reluctance to making this medication available OTC. You have made a comment that doesn't fit with the known issues. So, I'm asking you to clarify.
Where did I seem "touchy"? :unsure:
Quote from: merithyn on April 05, 2013, 02:52:36 PM
Quote from: derspiess on April 05, 2013, 02:48:06 PM
But let's back up for a second. Don't these pills work sort of like taking multiple dosages of birth control pills? Those still require a prescription, don't they?
They are a strong dose of hormone therapy, which is similar to taking certain types of birth control pills, yes. However, the reason that birth control pills are prescription is to require that women get a yearly check up. No check up; no renewal of your prescription.
There are also some side effects with some pills based on life-style choices, like smoking, that require additional blood tests. Those pills, however, use a combination of hormones, not the single shot that the Plan B pill uses.
I'll add to this that the long-term effects of continued use of hormone therapy is a major concern. This does not apply to the Plan B, since it's a two-dose application as opposed to the every day use of the Pill.
Quote from: Admiral Yi on April 05, 2013, 01:35:51 PM
Pretty sure it will be overturned.
What basis would there be for overturning this, do you think?
Quote from: merithyn on April 05, 2013, 02:57:44 PM
:huh:
What part of the above makes you think so? I'm trying to understand your reluctance to making this medication available OTC. You have made a comment that doesn't fit with the known issues. So, I'm asking you to clarify.
Where did I seem "touchy"? :unsure:
You're always touch on women's issues. But fine, no prescription then. No consultation or anything. If it's non-prescription, then hopefully I'll at least not have to share the cost through my group health insurance plan.
You win this one, Meri. But I'm not budging on the chorizo front.
Quote from: derspiess on April 05, 2013, 02:56:07 PM
:rolleyes: Never mind. This is obviously a touchy issue for you.
You're retreating because the side effect argument was proven false?
Quote from: garbon on April 05, 2013, 03:08:13 PM
Quote from: derspiess on April 05, 2013, 02:56:07 PM
:rolleyes: Never mind. This is obviously a touchy issue for you.
You're retreating because the side effect argument was proven false?
I guess. ISN'T THAT WHAT YOU WANT
Quote from: derspiess on April 05, 2013, 03:06:33 PM
You're always touch on women's issues. But fine, no prescription then. No consultation or anything. If it's non-prescription, then hopefully I'll at least not have to share the cost through my group health insurance plan.
This is actually why I was so curious as to your reluctance to make it OTC. The benefits to you are far larger with it as an OTC med than as a prescription. And since it's not an abortion pill (if you're pregnant, it won't end the pregnancy), I didn't understand why you would want it restricted on that front.
QuoteYou win this one, Meri. But I'm not budging on the chorizo front.
I wasn't out for a "win", but thanks. :)
And I'll concede that my understanding of the word chorizo may be singular rather than global. :sleep:
;)
I don't particularly want anything with regards to birth control. ;)
Quote from: garbon on April 05, 2013, 03:14:11 PM
I don't particularly want anything with regards to birth control. ;)
Aw, come on. I'm sure there's people that you'd want it retroactively applied to.
Quote from: derspiess on April 05, 2013, 01:42:08 PM
I don't have any ethical problem with the pill's availability, but it seems like it ought to require a prescription given the side effects.
All of which are less than aspirin or other NSAIDs. High dose progestins are about as safe as you can get. And you're at a lower chance of death if you terminate the pregnancy than if you carried it to term. Pregnancy has a lot of side effects that never went through the FDA approval process including but not limited to gestational diabetes, gestational hypertension, preeclampsia, placental abruption, deep vein thrombosis, pulmonary embolism, and endometritis.
He's already acquiesced, proto-doc. ;)
Quote from: merithyn on April 05, 2013, 03:34:24 PM
He's already acquiesced, proto-doc. ;)
Yeah we'd already finished him off. *high-five*
Quote from: garbon on April 05, 2013, 03:37:19 PM
Quote from: merithyn on April 05, 2013, 03:34:24 PM
He's already acquiesced, proto-doc. ;)
Yeah we'd already finished him off. *high-five*
And all without an almost-medical degree. ;)
Quote from: derspiess on April 05, 2013, 02:48:06 PM
But let's back up for a second. Don't these pills work sort of like taking multiple dosages of birth control pills? Those still require a prescription, don't they?
Estrogen in birth control needs to be regulated at point of care because it should be kept away from women at risk of blood clots (particularly smokers >35). Not all birth control contains estrogen. Plan B contains high dose progesterone analogs which don't increase blood clot risks.
Honestly I don't see a reason to keep women from buying progesterone OCPs over the counter. But it's just how it is. OB/gyns just want am excuse to see 50% of the sexually active population every year.
Quote from: Fate on April 05, 2013, 03:42:28 PM
OB/gyns just want am excuse to see 50% of the sexually active population every year.
:perv:
Quote from: derspiess on April 05, 2013, 02:34:05 PM
If that's the case, we should open the floodgates & make a bunch of other stuff available without prescription.
We should, actually.