Languish.org

Been thinking about this off and on since we moved to Edmonton.  What is the best situation to raise kids in?

There are obviously pros and cons to each.

If you're living in an "urban" area, you're probably in a condo/apartment.  No big back yard to run around in, probably much more exposure to street crime.  But living in that kind of density exposes you to a lot more diversity.  There will be far more programs and options available to you.  And possibly with so much available to you within walking distance, kids don't spend so much time in the back seat of a car.

A suburban area is the compromise.  You can have a back yard to run around in.  You still have access to a decent number of programs and options.  There will probably be less diversity than living downtown, but these days you won't find any pure whitebread suburbs (our neighbors on either side are south asian).  You will spend more time in a car.

Then there's rural.  All of nature is your playground.  You can actually see the stars at night.  Depending on the town, you might actually not even bother locking your door at night.  But very few programs, and what is available will have you driving everywhere.

So what says Languish?

Straight rural would be my choice. They'd have to get exposure to the city from time to time though.

Humid subtropical.

Needs "subterranean" option for Austria.

I have yet to meet a city kid (non-projects) who was poorly adjusted.

Rural communities in the US make me think of Meth and trashy values and horrible schools.

Quote from: Valmy on March 05, 2013, 03:30:33 PM
Rural communities in the US make me think of Meth and trashy values and horrible schools.

Meth depends on the individual community.  Schools tend to be... average.  No terrible ones, and no OMG awesome ones.

Values... that gets a bit tricky now doesn't it.  Religion is going to be stronger out in the country, now isn't it...

Burbs all the way.  Preferably a gated community (adjacent to a golf course) with a nice big pond, swimming pool, tennis courts, and a nice wooded area to explore.  Like what I had as a kid.

Wife used to insist urban was the way to go but her time in the US has soured her on that.

Quote from: derspiess on March 05, 2013, 03:33:17 PM
Like what I had as a kid.

I wonder if everyone's reaction essentially boils down to that.

I of course grew up suburban, my wife rural.

Probably suburban. Although in the internet age it really doesn't matter anymore.

Quote from: Barrister on March 05, 2013, 03:35:15 PM
I wonder if everyone's reaction essentially boils down to that.

Yeah but seriously it was a friggin' childhood utopia.  I really had no idea at the time how well we had things.  Only downside was that it was in West Virginia and 3 hours away from a city with decent museums, pro sports teams, zoo, etc.

Where I'm raising my kids, it's a nice street and we have a wooded lot with a big-enough yard, but there's a little too much traffic on the street for my tastes.  But on the other side, I've gotten in probably as much "city stuff" with Tommy as I had my entire childhood.

Quote from: derspiess on March 05, 2013, 03:46:17 PM

Quote from: Barrister on March 05, 2013, 03:35:15 PM
I wonder if everyone's reaction essentially boils down to that.

Yeah but seriously it was a friggin' childhood utopia.  I really had no idea at the time how well we had things.  Only downside was that it was in West Virginia and 3 hours away from a city with decent museums, pro sports teams, zoo, etc.

Where I'm raising my kids, it's a nice street and we have a wooded lot with a big-enough yard, but there's a little too much traffic on the street for my tastes.  But on the other side, I've gotten in probably as much "city stuff" with Tommy as I had my entire childhood.

What you describe sounds fairly rural to me.

Quote from: Barrister on March 05, 2013, 03:35:15 PM

Quote from: derspiess on March 05, 2013, 03:33:17 PM
Like what I had as a kid.

I wonder if everyone's reaction essentially boils down to that.

I of course grew up suburban, my wife rural.

Well....even if I wanted urban I lack the piles of cash necessary to try it out.

Quote from: Barrister on March 05, 2013, 03:47:19 PM

Quote from: derspiess on March 05, 2013, 03:46:17 PM

Quote from: Barrister on March 05, 2013, 03:35:15 PM
I wonder if everyone's reaction essentially boils down to that.

Yeah but seriously it was a friggin' childhood utopia.  I really had no idea at the time how well we had things.  Only downside was that it was in West Virginia and 3 hours away from a city with decent museums, pro sports teams, zoo, etc.

Where I'm raising my kids, it's a nice street and we have a wooded lot with a big-enough yard, but there's a little too much traffic on the street for my tastes.  But on the other side, I've gotten in probably as much "city stuff" with Tommy as I had my entire childhood.

What you describe sounds fairly rural to me.

No.  Just a gated community with a lot of space.  We were in a suburban area east of Huntington, WV which had a little over 50,000 people and I think 250,000 in the tri-state area.  Not a big city by any means, but big enough to have suburbs.

Look up 38.416768,-82.327783 on Google Maps or whatever.

Vancouver and most particularly North Vancouver.

Quote from: Valmy on March 05, 2013, 03:49:13 PM

Quote from: Barrister on March 05, 2013, 03:35:15 PM

Quote from: derspiess on March 05, 2013, 03:33:17 PM
Like what I had as a kid.

I wonder if everyone's reaction essentially boils down to that.

I of course grew up suburban, my wife rural.

Well....even if I wanted urban I lack the piles of cash necessary to try it out.

You have the cash necessary.  I'm positive you could find a 3 bedroom apartment/condo in downtown Austin, possibly by renting.

Quote from: Barrister on March 05, 2013, 03:06:25 PM
Then there's rural.  All of nature is your playground.  You can actually see the stars at night.  Depending on the town, you might actually not even bother locking your door at night.  But very few programs, and what is available will have you driving everywhere.

This.  Can't imagine growing up anywhere else than I did.  Even while travelling with my father, we were staying on a construction site, always lots of space.

Not sure how I'd rate where I live right now. Is it urban or suburban? It was certainly designed as a suburb.

I do have a house and a backyard, but I'm right next to the subway and shops.  :)

If you can get to things without driving, that's urban in my book.

Quote from: viper37 on March 05, 2013, 04:11:27 PM

Quote from: Barrister on March 05, 2013, 03:06:25 PM
Then there's rural.  All of nature is your playground.  You can actually see the stars at night.  Depending on the town, you might actually not even bother locking your door at night.  But very few programs, and what is available will have you driving everywhere.

This.  Can't imagine growing up anywhere else than I did.  Even while travelling with my father, we were staying on a construction site, always lots of space.

I never thought a construction site would be the answer for raising children. Though it would have a certain Darwinian attraction ...  :D

Suburbia, close to a city but far enough from it.

Quote from: Malthus on March 05, 2013, 04:13:37 PM
I never thought a construction site would be the answer for raising children. Though it would have a certain Darwinian attraction ...  :D

It's like being raised in a circus, minus all the fun stuff.

Quote from: lustindarkness on March 05, 2013, 04:15:30 PM
Suburbia, close to a city but far enough from it.

Rural enough to have trees but urban enough not to have bears.

Quote from: MadImmortalMan on March 05, 2013, 04:13:14 PM
If you can get to things without driving, that's urban in my book.

Then I guess I'll vote urban. Unfortunately, this choice is reflected in property taxes.  :(

*Cue rant ...

Quote from: Malthus on March 05, 2013, 04:13:37 PM
I never thought a construction site would be the answer for raising children. Though it would have a certain Darwinian attraction ...  :D

We were one of the first houses in our part of the development, so there were a lot of houses being built on our street and the adjacent streets.  My brothers, friends & I had tons of fun exploring the constructions sites in the evenings and scavenging scraps to use to make boats for the ponds.

Ehm, probably not the *safest* places for young kids, but I guess that was before the "child safety no matter what" thing took hold.

Urban, suburban, or rural I think we can all agree that a child is best served with a house full of money.

Quote from: Razgovory on March 05, 2013, 04:33:05 PM
Urban, suburban, or rural I think we can all agree that a child is best served with a house full of money.

(https://languish.org/forums/proxy.php?request=http%3A%2F%2F4.bp.blogspot.com%2F-jej1s6KHIW0%2FTpWmpdi0FOI%2FAAAAAAAAHK4%2FhPa_TaWR12c%2Fs400%2FScroogeMoneyBin.jpg&hash=f494da34931c5c8281db42e26fbaf3c578645a93)

Quote from: Barrister on March 05, 2013, 03:35:15 PM

Quote from: derspiess on March 05, 2013, 03:33:17 PM
Like what I had as a kid.

I wonder if everyone's reaction essentially boils down to that.

I of course grew up suburban, my wife rural.

Not really.  My wife grew up suburban and would never move back; I grew up rural and would never move back.

Quote from: derspiess on March 05, 2013, 03:46:17 PM

Quote from: Barrister on March 05, 2013, 03:35:15 PM
I wonder if everyone's reaction essentially boils down to that.

Yeah but seriously it was a friggin' childhood utopia.  I really had no idea at the time how well we had things.  Only downside was that it was in West Virginia and 3 hours away from a city with decent museums, pro sports teams, zoo, etc.

Where I'm raising my kids, it's a nice street and we have a wooded lot with a big-enough yard, but there's a little too much traffic on the street for my tastes. But on the other side, I've gotten in probably as much "city stuff" with Tommy as I had my entire childhood.

That's the same the world over.

Look at a current photo of any street in a village,town or city and one from 40 years ago and these a lot more traffic, cars on/in the roads, plus more road furniture/signage .

Sparta

Quote from: ulmont on March 05, 2013, 04:41:37 PM

Quote from: Barrister on March 05, 2013, 03:35:15 PM

Quote from: derspiess on March 05, 2013, 03:33:17 PM
Like what I had as a kid.

I wonder if everyone's reaction essentially boils down to that.

I of course grew up suburban, my wife rural.

Not really.  My wife grew up suburban and would never move back; I grew up rural and would never move back.

WHy's that?

Hunter gatherer environment. It's what we've evolved to live in for the last 2 million years after all. -_-

As weird as it sounds, I think that where we live now is perfect for raising kids. It's a good mix of all of the above. We have urban-type things like museums, great libraries, University lectures, shows, art exhibits, great diversity, and Chicago/Indy/St Louis only a 2-3 hour drive/train ride away. It's also a small enough town/city that it isn't long before you get to know people quickly and easily, and often have friends in common. We also rarely lock our doors, crime is minimal, and I have no problem with my kids being out running around. And while we're not rural ourselves, a 15-minute drive has you in the middle of rural communities and state parks.

I grew up in an urban area with a large yard and great natural places to explore, so I know that you can have those in an urban setting. I lived in the suburbs of Chicago for 13 years and hated it with every essence of my being. I haven't lived in a rural place - yet - but I can definitely see the charm of it for raising kids, so long as you're close enough to cultural stuff, too.

I guess my answer is a small city not far from larger cities, which you don't list as an option.

Quote from: jimmy olsen on March 05, 2013, 05:29:18 PM
Hunter gatherer environment. It's what we've evolved to live in for the last 2 million years after all. -_-

Try it for a week.  :D

Strictly the environment, I don't think has too much impact, the more important things to get right are peer group, parenting and school influences in that order. 

For looking at the widest social conditions I'd say that means cultural and country characteristics, which we and parents don't have any direct inflence on.

Quote from: Malthus on March 05, 2013, 06:15:12 PM

Quote from: jimmy olsen on March 05, 2013, 05:29:18 PM
Hunter gatherer environment. It's what we've evolved to live in for the last 2 million years after all. -_-

Try it for a week.  :D

These days it's called being a "bum".

As someone who was raised in a suburban/rural area- do not condemn your kids to that shit if you have a choice, they will hate you for it.
For young kids its fine, they aren't allowed to leave your sight anyway, but once they enter their teenage years it becomes a hell in which they are artificially trapped.

Diversity is a bad thing.

Quote from: Tyr on March 05, 2013, 07:49:38 PM
As someone who was raised in a suburban/rural area- do not condemn your kids to that shit if you have a choice, they will hate you for it.
For young kids its fine, but once they enter their teenage years it becomes a hell in which they are artificially trapped.

Unless there's a coal mine, right?

Somebody didn't have a car.

Quote from: Neil on March 05, 2013, 07:50:46 PM

Quote from: Tyr on March 05, 2013, 07:49:38 PM
As someone who was raised in a suburban/rural area- do not condemn your kids to that shit if you have a choice, they will hate you for it.
For young kids its fine, but once they enter their teenage years it becomes a hell in which they are artificially trapped.

Unless there's a coal mine, right?

It would have given the town an economy of its own and thus made it a bit less shitty. We may even have had the fabled McDonalds.
But.....relevant much?

Rural. I think urban would be good too.

I hated the suburbs.

Quote from: Sheilbh on March 05, 2013, 10:49:12 PM
Rural. I think urban would be good too.

I hated the suburbs.

Wasn't that mostly ideological though?

Quote from: Neil on March 05, 2013, 10:50:47 PM
Wasn't that mostly ideological though?

:lol: Partly. But I just hated it. I moved from the Highlands to a suburban town in the commuter belt. It was pretty enough and it was nice having a cinema less than a 2-3 hour drive away, but the whole place was pretty grim.

Some people I know since love it. But I don't know I think there's an excitement and joy for a kid in cities and the countryside. In the suburbs it's all just a bit more controlled and reined in. In the countryside I spent all my time cycling, my friends who grew up in London always had things to do and lived seconds from each other. In the suburbs you hang around the market square until you're old enough to start under age drinking.

Quote from: Sheilbh on March 05, 2013, 11:00:58 PM

Quote from: Neil on March 05, 2013, 10:50:47 PM
Wasn't that mostly ideological though?

:lol: Partly. But I just hated it. I moved from the Highlands to a suburban town in the commuter belt. It was pretty enough and it was nice having a cinema less than a 2-3 hour drive away, but the whole place was pretty grim.

Some people I know since love it. But I don't know I think there's an excitement and joy for a kid in cities and the countryside. In the suburbs it's all just a bit more controlled and reined in. In the countryside I spent all my time cycling, my friends who grew up in London always had things to do and lived seconds from each other. In the suburbs you hang around the market square until you're old enough to start under age drinking.

That's what people have already said about living in rural areas.

Quote from: Barrister on March 05, 2013, 03:32:58 PM
Values... that gets a bit tricky now doesn't it.  Religion is going to be stronger out in the country, now isn't it...

I was more thinking along the lines of:

If you think "loading the dishwasher" means getting your wife drunk...
If you own a home that is mobile and 5 cars that aren't...
If you think the stock market has a fence around it...
If you consider the fifth grade you senior year...

you might be...

For younger kids I'd go either rural or urban; if you're rich enough, both :)

Once the kids become teens, I prefer urban. Too much boredom in the suburbs or rural leads to too much drinking, fighting, drug abuse, and early pregnancy.

Quote from: Jacob on March 06, 2013, 12:24:15 AM
For younger kids I'd go either rural or urban; if you're rich enough, both :)

Once the kids become teens, I prefer urban. Too much boredom in the suburbs or rural leads to too much drinking, fighting, drug abuse, and early pregnancy.

I see a lot of that in the urban kids I prosecute. :)

Yeah, I don't know about kids these days, but at least in my generation, drug use appears to have been much more common in the urban kids (and I don't mean stuff like "inner city" ghetto kids, but even kids coming from so-called "good homes").

I grew up in the suburbs and I think I knew there was a couple of guys in my high school who may have taken something more serious than pot. From what I talked with my peers who grew up in Warsaw and went to the most prestigious high schools, half of the students were running on amphetamines. :P

Of course there were downsides, too - growing in the suburbs as a gay kid made me feel like I'm the only gay in the village.

But as I said, it's probably completely different now, with everybody having access to the internet.

Quote from: Barrister on March 06, 2013, 12:50:53 AM

Quote from: Jacob on March 06, 2013, 12:24:15 AM
For younger kids I'd go either rural or urban; if you're rich enough, both :)

Once the kids become teens, I prefer urban. Too much boredom in the suburbs or rural leads to too much drinking, fighting, drug abuse, and early pregnancy.

I see a lot of that in the urban kids I prosecute. :)

When people speak of urban settings they mean real cities.  Not frontier towns with government offices.

Quote from: Barrister on March 06, 2013, 12:02:32 AM
That's what people have already said about living in rural areas.

Well I think Jacob's onto something on the split. But I also think the British countryside is different. There's rural poverty which is one thing, and the odd area that's a bit inbred. But I don't think drug abuse would be a common association with the countryside - fighting, to an extent, but there's always fighting with kids. Similarly I'd say drinking's more difficult in the countryside. No pubs nearby, no shops - you have to wait for house parties.

Also I don't mind drinking. I started underage drinking when I was about 14 and went to the pub a few times a week. But it was fine. There was only one or two pubs in town that server under-agers, everyone knew they did and generally the landlords would make sure no-one got really drunk. The landlady used to give me a birthday cake every year and say '18 again?'

I feel sorry for kids now because they've clamped down on it. I think it's far better to be drinking in a pub or a bar than buying a bottle of vodka at a dodgy off-license and going to the park.

Quote from: Sheilbh on March 06, 2013, 08:46:46 AM

Quote from: Barrister on March 06, 2013, 12:02:32 AM
That's what people have already said about living in rural areas.

Well I think Jacob's onto something on the split.

That is why where I live is ideal.  A short drive to downtown Vancouver where they can take in a wide range of entertainments; a short walk to a trail head which takes them into the wilderness; a short bike ride to beaches; and a short bus ride to the local mountains for skiing in the winter or hiking in the summer.

Having grown up in a rural setting I would say it was the worst of all possible worlds.  The only real entertainment was getting drunk at field parties and all the trouble that comes with that.  And the trouble part ended up being most of the entertainment of going to the things in the first place.

Living in a suburb would be a living hell I would think.  Hey guys, lets go hang out at the mall, again...

Quote from: crazy canuck on March 06, 2013, 08:54:21 AM
Living in a suburb would be a living hell I would think.  Hey guys, lets go hang out at the mall, again...

Maybe it was just us but I never found the 15 minute trip to downtown all that hellish.  There were even free parking garages on weekends. 

Quote from: Barrister on March 05, 2013, 04:07:11 PM
You have the cash necessary.  I'm positive you could find a 3 bedroom apartment/condo in downtown Austin, possibly by renting.

A quick search suggests: negative.  I am somewhat amused by what Austin Realestate considers 'downtown'.  North of 45th street is not even close people.

Quote from: Valmy on March 06, 2013, 09:32:48 AM

Quote from: crazy canuck on March 06, 2013, 08:54:21 AM
Living in a suburb would be a living hell I would think.  Hey guys, lets go hang out at the mall, again...

Maybe it was just us but I never found the 15 minute trip to downtown all that hellish.  There were even free parking garages on weekends.

Read much?  Try going back and reading my post.

Quote from: crazy canuck on March 06, 2013, 10:26:47 AM

Quote from: Valmy on March 06, 2013, 09:32:48 AM

Quote from: crazy canuck on March 06, 2013, 08:54:21 AM
Living in a suburb would be a living hell I would think.  Hey guys, lets go hang out at the mall, again...

Maybe it was just us but I never found the 15 minute trip to downtown all that hellish.  There were even free parking garages on weekends.

Read much?  Try going back and reading my post.

Read it again and it still looks like you are saying a suburb would be living hell.  Which part do you want me to take into consideration? :hmm:

Quote from: Barrister on March 05, 2013, 05:28:13 PM

Quote from: ulmont on March 05, 2013, 04:41:37 PM

Not really.  My wife grew up suburban and would never move back; I grew up rural and would never move back.

WHy's that?

For me - small town where everyone's related or at least knows everybody's business; no movie theater or even a decent restaurant closer than a 30 minute drive, and at that the restaurants are iffy; intensely religious and conservative area; didn't like it then, wouldn't like it now.

For my wife - as best I can tell, pick your parody of suburban NJ life and that's how she grew up, so really has no desire to go back to anything close to that.

Quote from: Valmy on March 06, 2013, 10:31:17 AM

Quote from: crazy canuck on March 06, 2013, 10:26:47 AM

Quote from: Valmy on March 06, 2013, 09:32:48 AM

Quote from: crazy canuck on March 06, 2013, 08:54:21 AM
Living in a suburb would be a living hell I would think.  Hey guys, lets go hang out at the mall, again...

Maybe it was just us but I never found the 15 minute trip to downtown all that hellish.  There were even free parking garages on weekends.

Read much?  Try going back and reading my post.

Read it again and it still looks like you are saying a suburb would be living hell.  Which part do you want me to take into consideration? :hmm:

You either need glasses or reading comprehension classes.

QuoteA short drive to downtown Vancouver where they can take in a wide range of entertainments

Quote from: crazy canuck on March 06, 2013, 12:04:04 PM
You I either need glasses or reading comprehension classes.

My money's on the classes.

Quote from: crazy canuck on March 06, 2013, 12:04:04 PM
You either need glasses or reading comprehension classes.

QuoteA short drive to downtown Vancouver where they can take in a wide range of entertainments

Usually paragraphs contain a complete statement.  You were talking about living in a rural area in that paragraph.

Quote from: Valmy on March 06, 2013, 12:27:32 PM

Quote from: crazy canuck on March 06, 2013, 12:04:04 PM
You either need glasses or reading comprehension classes.

QuoteA short drive to downtown Vancouver where they can take in a wide range of entertainments

Usually paragraphs contain a complete statement.  You were talking about living in a rural area in that paragraph.

Sigh, there is no point to further communication if you cannot understand that I was talking about a point in space that was near to all those things.  I will try to type more slowly for you next time.

Quote from: crazy canuck on March 06, 2013, 12:38:41 PM
Sigh, there is no point to further communication if you cannot understand that I was talking about a point in space that was near to all those things.  I will try to type more slowly for you next time.

I thought that was sort of what suburbs meant.  You are in a community near to a major urban area.

I like the idea of rural but from my personal exposure to my cousins. They will start to drive at the earliest possible time & will also start drinking much younger. More chances for under18 DUI than in an Urban public transport environment.

*This might have been mentioned, I am not reading 5 pages of CC vs anyone deaf discourse.

Quote from: Valmy on March 06, 2013, 12:42:23 PM

Quote from: crazy canuck on March 06, 2013, 12:38:41 PM
Sigh, there is no point to further communication if you cannot understand that I was talking about a point in space that was near to all those things.  I will try to type more slowly for you next time.

I thought that was sort of what suburbs meant.  You are in a community near to a major urban area.

Then you thought wrong.  Not all suburbs are that close to major urban centres.  That is the definition of suburban hell.

Quote from: crazy canuck on March 06, 2013, 01:00:29 PM

Quote from: Valmy on March 06, 2013, 12:42:23 PM

Quote from: crazy canuck on March 06, 2013, 12:38:41 PM
Sigh, there is no point to further communication if you cannot understand that I was talking about a point in space that was near to all those things.  I will try to type more slowly for you next time.

I thought that was sort of what suburbs meant.  You are in a community near to a major urban area.

Then you thought wrong.  Not all suburbs are that close to major urban centres.  That is the definition of suburban hell.

Well you raise the point that with sufficient money these distinctions start to break down.  You can live next to downtown, and have a beautiful backyard, and have recreational property for weekends, to get the best of all worlds.

So perhaps we should exclude, oh, I dunno, the richest 1% from this discussion.

There are neighbourhoods with beautiful yards that would allow me to bicycle to work.  I can not afford them however.  My choices instead would be to live in a cramped condo downtown, or a big house 45 minutes away from downtown.

Quote from: Barrister on March 06, 2013, 02:03:32 PM
So perhaps we should exclude, oh, I dunno, the richest 1% from this discussion.

If you dont want my opinion, dont ask for it :bash:

But remember in the Canadian context the 1% isnt all that more rich....

Quote from: crazy canuck on March 06, 2013, 01:00:29 PM

Quote from: Valmy on March 06, 2013, 12:42:23 PM

Quote from: crazy canuck on March 06, 2013, 12:38:41 PM
Sigh, there is no point to further communication if you cannot understand that I was talking about a point in space that was near to all those things.  I will try to type more slowly for you next time.

I thought that was sort of what suburbs meant.  You are in a community near to a major urban area.

Then you thought wrong.  Not all suburbs are that close to major urban centres.  That is the definition of suburban hell.

Actually to be a suburb, I think you have to be in commuting distance of an urban area. Though of course that commuting distance can very greatly.

Quote from: garbon on March 06, 2013, 02:25:16 PM

Quote from: crazy canuck on March 06, 2013, 01:00:29 PM

Quote from: Valmy on March 06, 2013, 12:42:23 PM

Quote from: crazy canuck on March 06, 2013, 12:38:41 PM
Sigh, there is no point to further communication if you cannot understand that I was talking about a point in space that was near to all those things.  I will try to type more slowly for you next time.

I thought that was sort of what suburbs meant.  You are in a community near to a major urban area.

Then you thought wrong.  Not all suburbs are that close to major urban centres.  That is the definition of suburban hell.

Actually to be a suburb, I think you have to be in commuting distance of an urban area. Though of course that commuting distance can very greatly.

Yeah, here in Vancouver some people end up commuting two hours  - one way.  Hardly close proximity to the entertainments of the City core - hence suburban hell.

Put another way, if everyone in the suburbs had easy access to urban services and entertainment then there would be no useful distinction between urban and suburban. 

Quote from: crazy canuck on March 06, 2013, 02:37:12 PM
Put another way, if everyone in the suburbs had easy access to urban services and entertainment then there would be no useful distinction between urban and suburban. 

Sort of. I mean there is still some distinction as there's a difference of walking outside of one's home vs. driving into the city proper and finding parking. One's much less of a hassle and likely to be done more often.

Hell there is even distinctions of ease within a city say Manhattan vs. The Bronx or Sunset District vs. Mission District (in SF).

For me suburban hell suggests like what they showed on Weeds where all of the suburban homes are built in the exact same style and seem to be replicated over a vast area with little to break up the housing tracts.

Quote from: garbon on March 06, 2013, 02:42:22 PM

Quote from: crazy canuck on March 06, 2013, 02:37:12 PM
Put another way, if everyone in the suburbs had easy access to urban services and entertainment then there would be no useful distinction between urban and suburban. 

Sort of. I mean there is still some distinction as there's a difference of walking outside of one's home vs. driving into the city proper and finding parking. One's much less of a hassle and likely to be done more often.

Point conceded

Quote from: Malthus on March 05, 2013, 04:13:37 PM

Quote from: viper37 on March 05, 2013, 04:11:27 PM

Quote from: Barrister on March 05, 2013, 03:06:25 PM
Then there's rural.  All of nature is your playground.  You can actually see the stars at night.  Depending on the town, you might actually not even bother locking your door at night.  But very few programs, and what is available will have you driving everywhere.

This.  Can't imagine growing up anywhere else than I did.  Even while travelling with my father, we were staying on a construction site, always lots of space.

I never thought a construction site would be the answer for raising children. Though it would have a certain Darwinian attraction ...  :D

Quote from: Admiral Yi on March 05, 2013, 04:17:29 PM
It's like being raised in a circus, minus all the fun stuff.

Let's see:
+ lots of space.
+ while other kids had a tiny sandbox, I had a whole truck to play with.
+ lots of objects to have fun, nails, hammers, pieces of wood.
+ concrete, lots of it.  Who doesn't love concrete? :)
+ concrete slabs + left over construction material = springboard for bike stunts (until my father discovered it :( )
+ steel structure to walk on and give my parents stomach cramps.

The environment within the home is more important than the environment of the community in which the home is located.

Outer Space.

Quote from: katmai on March 06, 2013, 08:29:19 PM
Outer Space.

Easier to dispose of when they show Tim like symptoms.