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General Category => Off the Record => Topic started by: merithyn on December 10, 2012, 12:54:57 PM

Title: Favorite Historical Female
Post by: merithyn on December 10, 2012, 12:54:57 PM
So, keeping with my apparently feminist bent, I'll ask the question: Who is your favorite historical female? Doesn't matter where in history - but why you like the person would be nice to know.

Preference would be that the woman be dead, but if you can't think of any dead ones you like, a live one will do.
Title: Re: Favorite Historical Female
Post by: garbon on December 10, 2012, 12:57:40 PM
How sexist.
Title: Re: Favorite Historical Female
Post by: Neil on December 10, 2012, 12:58:18 PM
Hard to say.  Probably Victoria.
Title: Re: Favorite Historical Female
Post by: merithyn on December 10, 2012, 12:59:25 PM
Quote from: garbon on December 10, 2012, 12:57:40 PM
How sexist.

Feel free to start your own thread about favorite historical male. In the meantime, don't be mean. :hug:
Title: Re: Favorite Historical Female
Post by: merithyn on December 10, 2012, 12:59:45 PM
Quote from: Neil on December 10, 2012, 12:58:18 PM
Hard to say.  Probably Victoria.

Now that's interesting. Why?
Title: Re: Favorite Historical Female
Post by: Syt on December 10, 2012, 12:59:55 PM
Elizabeth I

And Messalina.
Title: Re: Favorite Historical Female
Post by: garbon on December 10, 2012, 01:02:01 PM
Quote from: merithyn on December 10, 2012, 12:59:25 PM
Quote from: garbon on December 10, 2012, 12:57:40 PM
How sexist.

Feel free to start your own thread about favorite historical male. In the meantime, don't be mean. :hug:

I'd say you are the one trivializing women, which is not particularly feminist.
Title: Re: Favorite Historical Female
Post by: merithyn on December 10, 2012, 01:06:32 PM
Quote from: garbon on December 10, 2012, 01:02:01 PM

I'd say you are the one trivializing women, which is not particularly feminist.

Not at all. Rather, I'm recognizing that on Languish, one is not likely to find someone saying that a woman is their favorite historical figure since a lot of people on here seem to prefer war figures over most others. So, by asking the question as I did, I'm likely to learn about more historical women than I would if I only asked who a favorite historical figure might be.

In my opinion, it isn't trivializing to separate a sub-group out in order to learn things about them that aren't normally addressed in the general course of things. When most of what you learn is about one group in history, specifically asking about other groups allows you to learn more interesting facts than you would otherwise come across.
Title: Re: Favorite Historical Female
Post by: merithyn on December 10, 2012, 01:07:07 PM
Quote from: Syt on December 10, 2012, 12:59:55 PM
Elizabeth I

And Messalina.

Liz I is my favorite. :wub:

Who's Messalina? :unsure:
Title: Re: Favorite Historical Female
Post by: Drakken on December 10, 2012, 01:11:10 PM
Rome's most infamous cheating whore, wife of Roman Emperor Cl-cl-cl-cl-cl-claudius.
Title: Re: Favorite Historical Female
Post by: Syt on December 10, 2012, 01:13:47 PM
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Messalina
Title: Re: Favorite Historical Female
Post by: Malthus on December 10, 2012, 01:17:27 PM
Quote from: merithyn on December 10, 2012, 01:06:32 PM

Not at all. Rather, I'm recognizing that on Languish, one is not likely to find someone saying that a woman is their favorite historical figure since a lot of people on here seem to prefer war figures over most others. So, by asking the question as I did, I'm likely to learn about more historical women than I would if I only asked who a favorite historical figure might be.

On that topic, plenty of warrior women to admire - like Britain's own Boudica, warrior queen of the Iceni - gotta love a woman who burned down London.  :D

Title: Re: Favorite Historical Female
Post by: merithyn on December 10, 2012, 01:20:41 PM
Quote from: Malthus on December 10, 2012, 01:17:27 PM
Quote from: merithyn on December 10, 2012, 01:06:32 PM

Not at all. Rather, I'm recognizing that on Languish, one is not likely to find someone saying that a woman is their favorite historical figure since a lot of people on here seem to prefer war figures over most others. So, by asking the question as I did, I'm likely to learn about more historical women than I would if I only asked who a favorite historical figure might be.

On that topic, plenty of warrior women to admire - like Britain's own Boudica, warrior queen of the Iceni - gotta love a woman who burned down London.  :D

Sure. But would you have thought to mention her if I hadn't asked specifically about historical women?
Title: Re: Favorite Historical Female
Post by: Drakken on December 10, 2012, 01:22:08 PM
Surprisingly, one of my favourite historical female character is Sisi - the real one, not the Romy Schneider one.

Not far lies also Vicki, Princess Royal, a woman who loathed with a passion everything militaristic and conservative her country of adoption Prussia was showcasing. The avowed aim of her marriage to Prussian crown prince Frederick was even to bring more liberalism in Prussia, which failed spectacularly.
Title: Re: Favorite Historical Female
Post by: Malthus on December 10, 2012, 01:22:35 PM
Quote from: Drakken on December 10, 2012, 01:11:10 PM
Rome's most infamous cheating whore, wife of Roman Emperor Cl-cl-cl-cl-cl-claudius.

Well, if we are going down that road - my favorite is the Empress Theodora, wife of Justinian the Great.

Anyone remember what she used to complain about, according to Procopius?  :D

[spoiler] That she had only three orifices suitable for fucking at the same time ... [/spoiler]
Title: Re: Favorite Historical Female
Post by: Drakken on December 10, 2012, 01:23:58 PM
Quote from: Malthus on December 10, 2012, 01:22:35 PM
Quote from: Drakken on December 10, 2012, 01:11:10 PM
Rome's most infamous cheating whore, wife of Roman Emperor Cl-cl-cl-cl-cl-claudius.

Well, if we are going down that road - my favorite is the Empress Theodora, wife of Justinian the Great.

Anyone remember what she used to complain about, according to Procopius?  :D

[spoiler] That she had only three orifices suitable for fucking at the same time ... [/spoiler]

It's hardly my quote. It's the historical consensus.

Had she asked Tacitus' opinion of her he would have answered the same - in Latin.
Title: Re: Favorite Historical Female
Post by: Malthus on December 10, 2012, 01:25:06 PM
Quote from: merithyn on December 10, 2012, 01:20:41 PM

Sure. But would you have thought to mention her if I hadn't asked specifically about historical women?

No, I'm not usually in the habit of randomly mentioning  Boudica.  :huh:
Title: Re: Favorite Historical Female
Post by: Malthus on December 10, 2012, 01:27:13 PM
Quote from: Drakken on December 10, 2012, 01:23:58 PM
Quote from: Malthus on December 10, 2012, 01:22:35 PM
Quote from: Drakken on December 10, 2012, 01:11:10 PM
Rome's most infamous cheating whore, wife of Roman Emperor Cl-cl-cl-cl-cl-claudius.

Well, if we are going down that road - my favorite is the Empress Theodora, wife of Justinian the Great.

Anyone remember what she used to complain about, according to Procopius?  :D

[spoiler] That she had only three orifices suitable for fucking at the same time ... [/spoiler]

It's hardly my quote. It's the historical consensus.

Had she asked Tacitus' opinion of her he would have answered the same - in Latin.

Fair enough - I'm just setting Theodora against her. Messalina is quantity and Theodra is quality.  :D
Title: Re: Favorite Historical Female
Post by: Jacob on December 10, 2012, 01:28:06 PM
I generally don't do favourites, but some historical women I like include:

Julie d'Aubigny: http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Julie_d'Aubigny
Margaret I of Denmark: http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Margaret_I_of_Denmark
I've always had a bit of a soft spot for Eleanor of Aquitaine as well.

Empress Wu Zetian is interesting as well: http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Wu_Zetian
Title: Re: Favorite Historical Female
Post by: Ed Anger on December 10, 2012, 01:29:01 PM
Boudicca, for getting her and her tribe's teeth kicked in by Paulinius.
Title: Re: Favorite Historical Female
Post by: Valmy on December 10, 2012, 01:29:58 PM
Quote from: merithyn on December 10, 2012, 01:07:07 PM
Who's Messalina? :unsure:

Author of probably the lamest and easiest thwarted plot to overthrow a Roman Emperor in history.

Olympe de Gouges :wub: for me.  Granted she sided with the Girondins but nobody is perfect.

Title: Re: Favorite Historical Female
Post by: Drakken on December 10, 2012, 01:31:10 PM
Quote from: Valmy on December 10, 2012, 01:29:58 PM
Olympe de Gouges :wub: for me.  Granted she sided with the Girondins but nobody is perfect.

I don't know why, as soon as I saw you'd posted I was sure you'd have answered either Olympe de Gouges or Charlotte Corday.  :lol:
Title: Re: Favorite Historical Female
Post by: Valmy on December 10, 2012, 01:32:36 PM
Quote from: Drakken on December 10, 2012, 01:22:08 PM
Surprisingly, one of my favourite historical female character is Sisi

Meh her sucking up to nationalist Hungarian douches always rubbed me the wrong way.
Title: Re: Favorite Historical Female
Post by: Valmy on December 10, 2012, 01:32:56 PM
Quote from: Drakken on December 10, 2012, 01:31:10 PM
Quote from: Valmy on December 10, 2012, 01:29:58 PM
Olympe de Gouges :wub: for me.  Granted she sided with the Girondins but nobody is perfect.

I don't know why, as soon as I saw you'd posted I was sure you'd have answered either Olympe de Gouges or Charlotte Corday.  :lol:

:P
Title: Re: Favorite Historical Female
Post by: Malthus on December 10, 2012, 01:37:28 PM
More seriously though - my number 1 choice would probably be Hatshepsut - widely considered one of the greatest pharohes in history, her reign saw a long era of peace and prosperity in which Egypt reached its absolute peak in terms of wealth, civilization, etc.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Hatshepsut
Title: Re: Favorite Historical Female
Post by: Drakken on December 10, 2012, 01:39:23 PM
Quote from: Valmy on December 10, 2012, 01:32:36 PM
Meh her sucking up to nationalist Hungarian douches always rubbed me the wrong way.

She did it for four reasons, I think, whose order of importance changed as months and years passed :

a) She genuinely appreciated Hungarian cuture, language, and aspirations as a nation, 
b) She saw that it would pacify the Hungarians and set better relations between them and the Austrians,
c) It was pissing directly into her stepmother's face, because Sophie never forgave the Hungarians for revolting and wanted their leaders either executed or banished forever
d) she desperately needed a way out from the Vienna court without totally abandoning Franz Joseph (which she ended up doing anyway), as Hungary was part of the Austrian Empire and not that far away.

I don't believe, however, that Sisi had an affair with Count Andrassy.
Title: Re: Favorite Historical Female
Post by: Valmy on December 10, 2012, 01:50:41 PM
Quote from: Malthus on December 10, 2012, 01:37:28 PM
More seriously though - my number 1 choice would probably be Hatshepsut - widely considered one of the greatest pharohes in history, her reign saw a long era of peace and prosperity in which Egypt reached its absolute peak in terms of wealth, civilization, etc.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Hatshepsut

Yeah she is my wife's as well.  I have a hard time getting a feel for Pharoahs.  All we have left is their own propaganda and the writings on Greek Historians centuries (and we are talking many centuries) later.  I mean one would think her step-son Thutmose III was a 20 foot tall collosus who smashed Nubian armies single handedly.
Title: Re: Favorite Historical Female
Post by: MadImmortalMan on December 10, 2012, 01:55:01 PM
Hmm. Cleopatra. Or Lady Hamilton.
Title: Re: Favorite Historical Female
Post by: Legbiter on December 10, 2012, 02:00:04 PM
Marie Curie.
Title: Re: Favorite Historical Female
Post by: Valmy on December 10, 2012, 02:01:36 PM
Quote from: Legbiter on December 10, 2012, 02:00:04 PM
Marie Curie.


Ooooooh good one :thumbsup:
Title: Re: Favorite Historical Female
Post by: derspiess on December 10, 2012, 02:07:01 PM
Is this another Meri trap thread?

Anyway, no contest-- Elizabeth I.
Title: Re: Favorite Historical Female
Post by: MadImmortalMan on December 10, 2012, 02:14:54 PM
Quote from: derspiess on December 10, 2012, 02:07:01 PM
Is this another Meri trap thread?


Why? Because most of the answers have been women who acted in traditionally (for their time) male roles?   :P

WHY CAN"T YOU ADMIRE FEMININITY SPICY?????
Title: Re: Favorite Historical Female
Post by: merithyn on December 10, 2012, 03:05:38 PM
Quote from: derspiess on December 10, 2012, 02:07:01 PM
Is this another Meri trap thread?

Okay, this is really, really sad, but I realized over the weekend that I really don't know very many female historical figures. :blush: I mean, I know the obvious - Elizabeth I, Eleanor of Aquitaine, Marie Curie, Boudicca, American Suffragettes - but I just don't know many beyond the most known. I knew that you guys would know a lot more, and that I would learn something by starting a thread like this. I was right. Of Jacob's list, I knew one of them - yes, just one. That's pathetic.

Quote from: MadImmortalMan on December 10, 2012, 02:14:54 PM
Why? Because most of the answers have been women who acted in traditionally (for their time) male roles?   :P

WHY CAN"T YOU ADMIRE FEMININITY SPICY?????

But that actually isn't true. The Roman chicks who used sex to get what they wanted, well, that's what they had, it worked, and it's very much a female thing as men didn't have to do it. I find it incredibly interesting to see how women, in such a male-dominated society, still managed to carve a good bit of power out for themselves. Does it fit with today's idea of "feminine power"? Of course not, but it's not meant to. It was a different time with very different ideas of humanity, much less male and female roles in society.

All of that is just fascinating to me. Not just for women; men had to do a lot of stuff too in order to maintain/get/sustain power. The difference is that my education on men is far more expansive than it is on women.
Title: Re: Favorite Historical Female
Post by: Neil on December 10, 2012, 03:14:35 PM
Quote from: merithyn on December 10, 2012, 12:59:45 PM
Quote from: Neil on December 10, 2012, 12:58:18 PM
Hard to say.  Probably Victoria.
Now that's interesting. Why?
Because she reigned effectively without renouncing her womanhood the way Elizabeth I did.  Because her reign was (excepting only perhaps that of her son) the high point of human civilization on Earth.  Because she was wise enough to use the system that had been built up for her, and to do what was required of her.
Title: Re: Favorite Historical Female
Post by: merithyn on December 10, 2012, 03:19:47 PM
Quote from: Neil on December 10, 2012, 03:14:35 PM
Because she reigned effectively without renouncing her womanhood the way Elizabeth I did.  Because her reign was (excepting only perhaps that of her son) the high point of human civilization on Earth.  Because she was wise enough to use the system that had been built up for her, and to do what was required of her.

Seems a bit unfair to compare Victoria with Elizabeth I since they had very different roles as monarchs. One was a figurehead, the other the supreme ruler.

I agree with the rest of your statement up to a point, but that point ends with the idea that it was due to Victoria that the "high point of human civilization" was due to her. She did, indeed, influence a number of things, but she didn't create the environment nor did she really directly affect anything during her reign.

Don't get me wrong. I adore Victoria. I just have a hard time equating her to rulers who actually ruled.
Title: Re: Favorite Historical Female
Post by: HVC on December 10, 2012, 03:25:02 PM
Quote from: Malthus on December 10, 2012, 01:22:35 PM
Quote from: Drakken on December 10, 2012, 01:11:10 PM
Rome's most infamous cheating whore, wife of Roman Emperor Cl-cl-cl-cl-cl-claudius.

Well, if we are going down that road - my favorite is the Empress Theodora, wife of Justinian the Great.

Anyone remember what she used to complain about, according to Procopius?  :D

[spoiler] That she had only three orifices suitable for fucking at the same time ... [/spoiler]
shes a keeper :wub: :P

As to the question, Joan of Arc. Gotta love a crazy person saving a country.
Title: Re: Favorite Historical Female
Post by: Valmy on December 10, 2012, 03:27:45 PM
Quote from: merithyn on December 10, 2012, 03:05:38 PM
The Roman chicks who used sex to get what they wanted, well, that's what they had, it worked, and it's very much a female thing as men didn't have to do it.

Now wait a second.  Who exactly are you thinking of here?  Roman women (at least those of birth, talent, and luck) could achieve quite a bit without having to sex people up.  Heck that was more commonly a good way to be executed, like Messilina, rather than get something.
Title: Re: Favorite Historical Female
Post by: Valmy on December 10, 2012, 03:29:23 PM
Quote from: HVC on December 10, 2012, 03:25:02 PM
As to the question, Joan of Arc. Gotta love a crazy person saving a country.

She is, without a doubt, the most unusual figure in history in my eyes.  I love the cynical Euros who would argue somehow it was some sort of political ploy...because giving a completely unqualified peasant girl real power leading an army and have it work is the oldest political trick in the book.  Nothing quite like it had ever happened before or since.

I mean I could get using some wacko as a figure head but actually giving her leadership?  And have this actually turn out to be have been a good idea?
Title: Re: Favorite Historical Female
Post by: merithyn on December 10, 2012, 03:30:31 PM
Quote from: Valmy on December 10, 2012, 03:27:45 PM

Now wait a second.  Who exactly are you thinking of here?  Roman women (at least those of birth, talent, and luck) could achieve quite a bit without having to sex people up.  Heck that was more commonly a good way to be executed, like Messilina, rather than get something.

The impression that I've gotten from reading about a number of those high-ranking Roman women was that they usually started an affair (or several) that ended with them trying to convince their paramour to kill their spouse/ruler/enemy. This generally had one of two consequences: they succeeded and won fame and fortune or they failed and died.
Title: Re: Favorite Historical Female
Post by: merithyn on December 10, 2012, 03:31:23 PM
Quote from: HVC on December 10, 2012, 03:25:02 PM

As to the question, Joan of Arc. Gotta love a crazy person saving a country.

I'm thinking that that's an amazing way to turn schizophrenia into a career.
Title: Re: Favorite Historical Female
Post by: Martinus on December 10, 2012, 03:37:42 PM
That's a really tough question, especially when you move to premodern era. For example how many of these who say Eleanor of Aquitaine really mean Mrs. Hepburn.
Title: Re: Favorite Historical Female
Post by: Valmy on December 10, 2012, 03:40:18 PM
Quote from: merithyn on December 10, 2012, 03:31:23 PM
I'm thinking that that's an amazing way to turn schizophrenia into a career.

Well typically French rulers did not just give control of her army to any old nutter, and armies do not usually develop extreme devotion to obvious screw balls.  She had something going for her, clearly an exceptional person.
Title: Re: Favorite Historical Female
Post by: Valmy on December 10, 2012, 03:40:43 PM
Quote from: merithyn on December 10, 2012, 03:30:31 PM
The impression that I've gotten from reading about a number of those high-ranking Roman women was that they usually started an affair (or several) that ended with them trying to convince their paramour to kill their spouse/ruler/enemy. This generally had one of two consequences: they succeeded and won fame and fortune or they failed and died.

Well sure there were lots of high-ranking women but plenty of them achieved distinction and importance without having to get anybody killed.

Which famous roman woman successfully executed this plot and achieved fame and fortune?

I mean divorce was legal, Livia did not have to get Octavian to kill her husband.
Title: Re: Favorite Historical Female
Post by: crazy canuck on December 10, 2012, 03:42:15 PM
Quote from: Malthus on December 10, 2012, 01:37:28 PM
More seriously though - my number 1 choice would probably be Hatshepsut - widely considered one of the greatest pharohes in history, her reign saw a long era of peace and prosperity in which Egypt reached its absolute peak in terms of wealth, civilization, etc.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Hatshepsut

Good Choice.

That choice being taken I will throw in Catherine the Great. 
Title: Re: Favorite Historical Female
Post by: Jacob on December 10, 2012, 03:44:08 PM
Quote from: Martinus on December 10, 2012, 03:37:42 PM
That's a really tough question, especially when you move to premodern era. For example how many of these who say Eleanor of Aquitaine really mean Mrs. Hepburn.

Not me, since I haven't seen the movie... I assume there's a movie involved. That said, I don't think there is anything wrong with being influenced by popular media in making that decision - in fact that's pretty much the only way we can form an opinion about a "favourite".
Title: Re: Favorite Historical Female
Post by: crazy canuck on December 10, 2012, 03:48:26 PM
Quote from: Martinus on December 10, 2012, 03:37:42 PM
That's a really tough question, especially when you move to premodern era. For example how many of these who say Eleanor of Aquitaine really mean Mrs. Hepburn.

Given that the people who are responding are history and not movie buffs I would guess the number is 0
Title: Re: Favorite Historical Female
Post by: MadImmortalMan on December 10, 2012, 03:51:54 PM
There is a lot of correlation here with attaining power. Is that the admirable thing?
Title: Re: Favorite Historical Female
Post by: HVC on December 10, 2012, 03:55:08 PM
Quote from: MadImmortalMan on December 10, 2012, 03:51:54 PM
There is a lot of correlation here with attaining power. Is that the admirable thing?
it's hard to have your name remembered across centuries without attaining some sort of power in your life time... Well except maybe losing given power because you're so crappy at keeping it. 
Title: Re: Favorite Historical Female
Post by: crazy canuck on December 10, 2012, 03:55:33 PM
Quote from: MadImmortalMan on December 10, 2012, 03:51:54 PM
There is a lot of correlation here with attaining power. Is that the admirable thing?

How many women do we have to choose from the historical record if we remove the ones that achieved some measure of power and influence?
Title: Re: Favorite Historical Female
Post by: Valmy on December 10, 2012, 03:57:32 PM
Quote from: crazy canuck on December 10, 2012, 03:55:33 PM
Quote from: MadImmortalMan on December 10, 2012, 03:51:54 PM
There is a lot of correlation here with attaining power. Is that the admirable thing?

How many women do we have to choose from the historical record if we remove the ones that achieved some measure of power and influence?

Well the further you go back probably zero but there are many from more recent times.  Marie Curie was hardly a juggernaut of political power.
Title: Re: Favorite Historical Female
Post by: MadImmortalMan on December 10, 2012, 03:58:48 PM
Heck I don't know. I said Cleopatra, so it's the same with me. I was just musing. I guess any kind of notoriety is some form of power.
Title: Re: Favorite Historical Female
Post by: Neil on December 10, 2012, 03:59:44 PM
Quote from: merithyn on December 10, 2012, 03:19:47 PM
Quote from: Neil on December 10, 2012, 03:14:35 PM
Because she reigned effectively without renouncing her womanhood the way Elizabeth I did.  Because her reign was (excepting only perhaps that of her son) the high point of human civilization on Earth.  Because she was wise enough to use the system that had been built up for her, and to do what was required of her.
Seems a bit unfair to compare Victoria with Elizabeth I since they had very different roles as monarchs. One was a figurehead, the other the supreme ruler.

I agree with the rest of your statement up to a point, but that point ends with the idea that it was due to Victoria that the "high point of human civilization" was due to her. She did, indeed, influence a number of things, but she didn't create the environment nor did she really directly affect anything during her reign.

Don't get me wrong. I adore Victoria. I just have a hard time equating her to rulers who actually ruled.
I certainly can compare the way they handled the fact that they were women.

I think that Victoria certainly had an influence.  Compare the way she interacted with the upper class with the way that her uncles did.  They don't call them 'Victorian' morals for nothing.  Her relative austerity created a great deal of social capital that was invested towards stability and order.  Given the intellectual and social tides that were buffeting Britain at the time, I am more impressed by Victoria's achievements than those of Elizabeth.
Title: Re: Favorite Historical Female
Post by: crazy canuck on December 10, 2012, 04:00:04 PM
Quote from: Valmy on December 10, 2012, 03:57:32 PM
Quote from: crazy canuck on December 10, 2012, 03:55:33 PM
Quote from: MadImmortalMan on December 10, 2012, 03:51:54 PM
There is a lot of correlation here with attaining power. Is that the admirable thing?

How many women do we have to choose from the historical record if we remove the ones that achieved some measure of power and influence?

Well the further you go back probably zero but there are many from more recent times.  Marie Curie was hardly a juggernaut of political power.

She is exceptional because she became a notable scientist at a time there were few female scentist.
Title: Re: Favorite Historical Female
Post by: Jacob on December 10, 2012, 04:00:15 PM
Quote from: MadImmortalMan on December 10, 2012, 03:51:54 PM
There is a lot of correlation here with attaining power. Is that the admirable thing?

Not necessarily, but those who attain power has more histories written about them and more attention paid to the personal qualities. It's easier for us to know about them... and their mythologies are probably more elaborate as well, making it easier to develop favourites for whatever idiosyncratic reason.
Title: Re: Favorite Historical Female
Post by: Jacob on December 10, 2012, 04:05:09 PM
I have long appreciated Freya Stark - in part because her life and name makes her sounds like a player character - http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Freya_Stark
Title: Re: Favorite Historical Female
Post by: Valmy on December 10, 2012, 04:05:31 PM
Quote from: crazy canuck on December 10, 2012, 04:00:04 PM
She is exceptional because she became a notable scientist at a time there were few female scentist.

Right.  But she was not powerful in any sense.
Title: Re: Favorite Historical Female
Post by: crazy canuck on December 10, 2012, 04:06:56 PM
Quote from: Valmy on December 10, 2012, 04:05:31 PM
Quote from: crazy canuck on December 10, 2012, 04:00:04 PM
She is exceptional because she became a notable scientist at a time there were few female scentist.

Right.  But she was not powerful in any sense.

Valmy, the point is once you remove the women who attained positions of power and influence you are left with a short list of Madam Currie and well not much else.
Title: Re: Favorite Historical Female
Post by: Valmy on December 10, 2012, 04:09:18 PM
Quote from: crazy canuck on December 10, 2012, 04:06:56 PM
Valmy, the point is once you remove the women who attained positions of power and influence you are left with a short list of Madam Currie and well not much else.

I disagee.  I was only using her because she was already mentioned in this thread.  But like Marie you have to look in the arts and sciences and philanthrope and social activism and all that good stuff.
Title: Re: Favorite Historical Female
Post by: PDH on December 10, 2012, 04:15:45 PM
I would have to say the woman who first made beer.
Title: Re: Favorite Historical Female
Post by: Lettow77 on December 10, 2012, 04:17:20 PM
 Historical Women I really like-

Queen Victoria immediately comes to mind, naturally, as the epitome of ladylike propriety and the symbol of an age, or Joan of Arc, who was a pure and valiant maiden

I also really like Flannery O'Conner's writing and sense of culture. Jane Austen is wonderful for the extent to which she exalted ordinary rhythms of life and polite society.
Title: Re: Favorite Historical Female
Post by: MadImmortalMan on December 10, 2012, 04:31:37 PM
Quote from: merithyn on December 10, 2012, 03:05:38 PM
The Roman chicks who used sex to get what they wanted, well, that's what they had, it worked, and it's very much a female thing as men didn't have to do it. I find it incredibly interesting to see how women, in such a male-dominated society, still managed to carve a good bit of power out for themselves. Does it fit with today's idea of "feminine power"? Of course not, but it's not meant to. It was a different time with very different ideas of humanity, much less male and female roles in society.

Oh, here's another question. Do you guys think that the "feminine" path to power those ladies took is not admirable today? Why not? What if a man attained power through those means? Would you look down on him?

If it's not admirable, then why did we take the male method and make it the "good" one?
Title: Re: Favorite Historical Female
Post by: crazy canuck on December 10, 2012, 04:34:51 PM
Quote from: Valmy on December 10, 2012, 04:09:18 PM
Quote from: crazy canuck on December 10, 2012, 04:06:56 PM
Valmy, the point is once you remove the women who attained positions of power and influence you are left with a short list of Madam Currie and well not much else.

I disagee.  I was only using her because she was already mentioned in this thread.  But like Marie you have to look in the arts and sciences and philanthrope and social activism and all that good stuff.

Ok go for it.

Sciences.  Got that list pretty much completed - historically a male dominated area

Arts - fill in the blank, historically a male dominated area

philanthrope - historically what women were independantly wealthy and had the freedom to give away their wealth? - historically a male dominated area

Title: Re: Favorite Historical Female
Post by: Valmy on December 10, 2012, 04:41:21 PM
Quote from: crazy canuck on December 10, 2012, 04:34:51 PM
Ok go for it.

Heh no.  If I have that sort of free time I am taking a nap.
Title: Re: Favorite Historical Female
Post by: Maximus on December 10, 2012, 05:05:24 PM
Quote from: Legbiter on December 10, 2012, 02:00:04 PM
Marie Curie.
I'll see your Madame Curie and raise you the Countess Lovelace
Title: Re: Favorite Historical Female
Post by: Maximus on December 10, 2012, 05:12:07 PM
Quote from: Maximus on December 10, 2012, 05:05:24 PM
Quote from: Legbiter on December 10, 2012, 02:00:04 PM
Marie Curie.
I'll see your Madame Curie and raise you the Countess Lovelace
I just googled something about her and in a strange coincidence it turns out today is her birthday and she is the subject of Google's doodle for today. :unsure:
Title: Re: Favorite Historical Female
Post by: merithyn on December 10, 2012, 05:16:57 PM
Quote from: crazy canuck on December 10, 2012, 04:34:51 PM
Ok go for it.

Sciences.   - Smithsonian suggests these ladies (http://www.smithsonianmag.com/science-nature/Ten-Historic-Female-Scientists-You-Should-Know.html). Of them, I knew Rosalind Franklin only.

Arts - This one's a lot easier. Jane Austen, Mary Cassat, Frida Kahlo, Louisa Alcott, Laura Ingalls Wilder, Juliana Berners (medieval writer: The Book of St Albans, the Bronte sisters, Lucy Maud Montgomery

philanthrope - Jane Adams (Hull House) - That's all I could come up with for this one, but then, I don't typically know a lot of philanthropists in general.
Title: Re: Favorite Historical Female
Post by: derspiess on December 10, 2012, 05:35:21 PM
Quote from: Valmy on December 10, 2012, 04:41:21 PM
Quote from: crazy canuck on December 10, 2012, 04:34:51 PM
Ok go for it.

Heh no.  If I have that sort of free time I am taking a nap.

No shit.
Title: Re: Favorite Historical Female
Post by: derspiess on December 10, 2012, 05:37:34 PM
Quote from: merithyn on December 10, 2012, 05:16:57 PM
Quote from: crazy canuck on December 10, 2012, 04:34:51 PM
Ok go for it.

Sciences.   - Smithsonian suggests these ladies (http://www.smithsonianmag.com/science-nature/Ten-Historic-Female-Scientists-You-Should-Know.html). Of them, I knew Rosalind Franklin only.

Arts - This one's a lot easier. Jane Austen, Mary Cassat, Frida Kahlo, Louisa Alcott, Laura Ingalls Wilder, Juliana Berners (medieval writer: The Book of St Albans, the Bronte sisters, Lucy Maud Montgomery

philanthrope - Jane Adams (Hull House) - That's all I could come up with for this one, but then, I don't typically know a lot of philanthropists in general.

I wish you could select the authors who appear on my Kindle when it goes into sleep mode.  Seems like more often than not that ugly-assed Emily Dickinson's face appears.  Ugh, I'd rather have the ads.
Title: Re: Favorite Historical Female
Post by: Agelastus on December 10, 2012, 06:05:39 PM
I've always had a soft spot for Artemisia myself.

From Wikipedia's account of the battle of Salamis -

QuoteHerodotus recounts that Artemisia the queen of Halicarnassus, and commander of the Carian contingent, found herself pursued by the ship of Ameinias of Pallene. In her desire to escape, she attacked and rammed another Persian vessel, thereby convincing the Athenian captain that the ship was an ally; Ameinias accordingly abandoned the chase. However, Xerxes, looking on, thought that she had successfully attacked an Allied ship, and seeing the poor performance of his other captains commented that "My men have become women, and my women men".

:lol:
Title: Re: Favorite Historical Female
Post by: grumbler on December 10, 2012, 06:13:49 PM
Artemisia Gentileschi:  the first female painter to gain fame as an artist on her own.  Ironically, while she was a world-famous figure in her lifetime, a generation after her death her paintings were being attributed to her father.

Plus, her works were fully of kittens and teddy bears:
(https://languish.org/forums/proxy.php?request=http%3A%2F%2Fupload.wikimedia.org%2Fwikipedia%2Fcommons%2F4%2F4e%2FArtemisia_Gentileschi_-_Judith_Beheading_Holofernes_-_WGA8563.jpg&hash=efeca5a2726df34a1b2fd8db59d91486cbf04ae5)
Title: Re: Favorite Historical Female
Post by: Agelastus on December 10, 2012, 06:56:49 PM
 :hmm:

I've seen images of that painting hundreds of times and yet I'd never registered that the artist was another Artemisia. Well I'll be...
Title: Re: Favorite Historical Female
Post by: Jacob on December 10, 2012, 07:01:36 PM
Quote from: grumbler on December 10, 2012, 06:13:49 PM
Artemisia Gentileschi:  the first female painter to gain fame as an artist on her own.  Ironically, while she was a world-famous figure in her lifetime, a generation after her death her paintings were being attributed to her father.

Good one :cheers:
Title: Re: Favorite Historical Female
Post by: Legbiter on December 10, 2012, 07:04:02 PM
Quote from: Valmy on December 10, 2012, 02:01:36 PM
Quote from: Legbiter on December 10, 2012, 02:00:04 PM
Marie Curie.


Ooooooh good one :thumbsup:

Only bitch to figure shit out on her own.  ;)
Title: Re: Favorite Historical Female
Post by: Ed Anger on December 10, 2012, 07:50:25 PM
To be serious, Thatcher. Argie killin'? Closing coal mines and making Josq cry? Good stuff.

Title: Re: Favorite Historical Female
Post by: The Minsky Moment on December 10, 2012, 07:54:03 PM
 Joan Violet Robinson, of course!
Title: Re: Favorite Historical Female
Post by: Caliga on December 10, 2012, 08:22:00 PM
Quote from: Drakken on December 10, 2012, 01:11:10 PM
Rome's most infamous cheating whore, wife of Roman Emperor Cl-cl-cl-cl-cl-claudius.
:D
WAAH WAAAH WAAAH I KONT!!!!
Do it, child.  Your life is finished.
I KONT, I KONT, WAAAAAAAAH
Title: Re: Favorite Historical Female
Post by: Sheilbh on December 10, 2012, 08:25:02 PM
Barbara Castle :wub:

I love Margery Kempe and whoever Marie de France was.

If I was American I think I'd LOVE Shirley Chisholm.
Title: Re: Favorite Historical Female
Post by: jimmy olsen on December 10, 2012, 09:03:26 PM
Jean d'Arc
Title: Re: Favorite Historical Female
Post by: garbon on December 10, 2012, 09:51:46 PM
Quote from: merithyn on December 10, 2012, 01:06:32 PM
Not at all. Rather, I'm recognizing that on Languish, one is not likely to find someone saying that a woman is their favorite historical figure since a lot of people on here seem to prefer war figures over most others. So, by asking the question as I did, I'm likely to learn about more historical women than I would if I only asked who a favorite historical figure might be.

In my opinion, it isn't trivializing to separate a sub-group out in order to learn things about them that aren't normally addressed in the general course of things. When most of what you learn is about one group in history, specifically asking about other groups allows you to learn more interesting facts than you would otherwise come across.

Which unfortunately I think continues the trend. However, given what you later said was your aim with this thread, I understand. :hug:
Title: Re: Favorite Historical Female
Post by: Drakken on December 11, 2012, 12:24:00 AM
Quote from: Caliga on December 10, 2012, 08:22:00 PM
Quote from: Drakken on December 10, 2012, 01:11:10 PM
Rome's most infamous cheating whore, wife of Roman Emperor Cl-cl-cl-cl-cl-claudius.
:D
WAAH WAAAH WAAAH I KONT!!!!
Do it, child.  Your life is finished.
I KONT, I KONT, WAAAAAAAAH


One of I, Clavdivs' best scenes. :thumbsup:
Title: Re: Favorite Historical Female
Post by: Ideologue on December 11, 2012, 12:39:19 AM
Rosa Luxemburg.
Title: Re: Favorite Historical Female
Post by: Valmy on December 11, 2012, 12:40:15 AM
Quote from: Ideologue on December 11, 2012, 12:39:19 AM
Rosa Luxemburg.

Not Emma Goldman?
Title: Re: Favorite Historical Female
Post by: derspiess on December 11, 2012, 12:48:22 AM
Quote from: Ideologue on December 11, 2012, 12:39:19 AM
Rosa Luxemburg.

Lolz Freikorps FTW
Title: Re: Favorite Historical Female
Post by: Neil on December 11, 2012, 12:48:23 AM
Quote from: Ideologue on December 11, 2012, 12:39:19 AM
Rosa Luxemburg.
:lol:  Yeah right.  No way she was under 100 pounds.
Title: Re: Favorite Historical Female
Post by: Ideologue on December 11, 2012, 12:57:17 AM
Quote from: Valmy on December 11, 2012, 12:40:15 AM
Quote from: Ideologue on December 11, 2012, 12:39:19 AM
Rosa Luxemburg.

Not Emma Goldman?

Luxemburg wasn't a dirty anarchist.
Title: Re: Favorite Historical Female
Post by: Syt on December 11, 2012, 01:04:24 AM
Quote from: Ideologue on December 11, 2012, 12:39:19 AM
Rosa Luxemburg.

The other day I sat in the subway across from a '68 generation lefty who read "Not Marxist, and not Anarchist either: Women of the First International".

(https://languish.org/forums/proxy.php?request=http%3A%2F%2Fwww.bibliothekderfreien.de%2Fimages%2Fveranstaltungen%2Fschrupp.jpg&hash=c7cfd77ecd3d17e1393d8431af81840a8a276e65)
Title: Re: Favorite Historical Female
Post by: Barrister on December 11, 2012, 01:09:06 AM
Lady Jane Franklin.

I read a bio of her as a result of my interest in Arctic exploration, but she was quite the fascinating figure in her own right.
Title: Re: Favorite Historical Female
Post by: Camerus on December 11, 2012, 02:03:55 AM
To mention two 19th century American women, I always found both Sacagawea and Sojouner Truth pretty interesting.
Title: Re: Favorite Historical Female
Post by: Caliga on December 11, 2012, 07:26:27 PM

Quote from: Drakken on December 10, 2012, 01:11:10 PM
One of I, Clavdivs' best scenes. :thumbsup:
I liked the scene immediately following when those dudes told Claudius about the execution and he then listened to them drone on about stupid shit, they looked at each other and were like "ummm time to GTFO" and then C-C-C-C-C-Claudius started crying in that fucked up manner of his. :)
Title: Re: Favorite Historical Female
Post by: Caliga on December 11, 2012, 07:33:51 PM
Anyway, as to the OP, I always thought Empress Theodora was pretty cool.  From hooker to Empress of Byzantium. :cool:
Title: Re: Favorite Historical Female
Post by: Caliga on December 11, 2012, 07:35:11 PM
Also, if Thatcher was dead, she'd probably get my vote. :bowler:
Title: Re: Favorite Historical Female
Post by: Malthus on December 12, 2012, 09:42:48 AM
Quote from: Caliga on December 11, 2012, 07:33:51 PM
Anyway, as to the OP, I always thought Empress Theodora was pretty cool.  From hooker to Empress of Byzantium. :cool:

Hey, I beat ya to it.  :D
Title: Re: Favorite Historical Female
Post by: Darth Wagtaros on December 12, 2012, 09:47:44 AM
Doctor Quinn, Medicine Woman.
Title: Re: Favorite Historical Female
Post by: 11B4V on December 12, 2012, 10:58:39 AM
Quote from: merithyn on December 10, 2012, 12:54:57 PM
Who is your favorite historical female?

(https://languish.org/forums/proxy.php?request=http%3A%2F%2Fblog.trialandheirs.com%2Fwp-content%2Fuploads%2Ffarrah_fawcett_011.jpg&hash=0efbe1b053ae8bef1e1ae2fb1d4f4f287420e984)
Title: Re: Favorite Historical Female
Post by: Brazen on December 12, 2012, 11:02:49 AM
Rosalind Franklin for her critical contribution to the discovery of the structure of DNA and Florence Nightingale for her statistical analysis and sanitary reform in a clinical environment. And Eleanor Roosevelt for her contribution to zingers.