Max brought this to my attention. I think this guy's an idiot, but hey, what a way to die, right?
Article (http://www.cbsnews.com/8301-205_162-57528449/felix-baumgartner-set-for-jump-from-edge-of-space/)
QuoteExtreme athlete and skydiver Felix Baumgartner hopes to end five years of preparation with a death-defying 23-mile free fall into the southeastern New Mexico desert Tuesday morning.
Weather permitting, the 43-year-old Austrian will take off in a 55-story, ultra-thin and easy-to-tear helium balloon that will take him into the stratosphere for a jump that he hopes will make him the first skydiver to break the sound barrier and shatter three other world records.
The balloon is set to launch at about 7 a.m. local time from a field near the airport in a flat dusty town that until now has been best known for a rumored 1947 UFO landing.
After a nearly three-hour ascent to 120,000 feet, Baumgartner will take a bunny-style hop from a pressurized capsule into a near-vacuum where there is barely any oxygen to begin what is expected to be the fastest, farthest free fall from the highest-ever manned balloon.
But the former military parachutist can only make the jump if winds are no greater than 2 mph. A cold front already delayed the jump by one day, but his team was optimistic Monday that a break before a second cold front is due to arrive Thursday will give him the opportunity to complete his mission.
Baumgartner spent Monday at his hotel, mentally preparing for the dangerous feat with his parents, girlfriend and four close friends, his team said.
Among the risks: any contact with the capsule on his exit could tear the pressurized suit. A rip could expose him to a lack of oxygen and temperatures as low as 70 degrees below zero. It could cause potentially lethal bubbles to form in his bodily fluids, a condition known as "boiling blood."
He could also spin out of control, causing other risky problems.
The energy drink maker Red Bull, which is sponsoring the feat, has been promoting a live Internet stream of the event at this website from nearly 30 cameras on the capsule, the ground and a helicopter. But organizers said there will be a 20-second delay in their broadcast of footage in case of a tragic accident.
Despite the dangers and questionable wind forecast, high performance director Andy Walshe said the team was excited, not nervous.
Baumgartner has made two practice jumps, one from 15 miles in March and another from 18 miles in July.
"With these big moments, you get a kind of sense that the energy changes," he said Monday. "It really is just kind of a heightened energy. It keeps you on your toes. It's not nervousness, it's excitement."
During the ascent, Walshe said, the team will have views from a number of cameras, including one focused directly on Baumgartner's face. Additionally, they will have data from life support and other systems that show things like whether he is getting enough oxygen.
The team also expects constant communication with Baumgartner, although former astronaut Joe Kittinger, whose 1960 free-fall record from 19.5 miles Baumgartner hopes to break, is the only member of mission control who will be allowed to talk to him.
And while Baumgartner hopes to set four new world records, his free fall is more than just a stunt.
His dive from the stratosphere should provide scientists with valuable information for next-generation spacesuits and techniques that could help astronauts survive accidents.
Jumping from more than three times the height of the average cruising altitude for jetliners, Baumgartner's expects to hit a speed of 690 mph or more before he activates his parachute at 9,500 feet above sea level, or about 5,000 above the ground in southeastern New Mexico. The total jump should take about 10 minutes.
His medical director is Dr. Jonathan Clark, a NASA space shuttle crew surgeon who lost his wife, Laurel Clark, in the 2003 Columbia accident. No one knows what happens to a body when it breaks the sound barrier, Clark said.
"That is really the scientific essence of this mission," said Clark, who is dedicated to improving astronauts' chances of survival in a high-altitude disaster.
Clark told reporters Monday he expects Baumgartner's pressurized spacesuit to protect him from the shock waves of breaking the sound barrier. If all goes well and he survives the jump, NASA could certify a new generation of spacesuits for protecting astronauts and provide an escape option from spacecraft at 120,000 feet, he said.
Currently, spacesuits are certified to protect astronauts to 100,000 feet, the level Kittinger reached in 1960. Kittinger's speed of 614 mph was just shy of breaking the sound barrier at that altitude.
He's handsome too, it would be such a waste. Honestly I can't see it happening. 2mph winds at ground level and no more than 4mph on the way up? Could take months.
Attempt today was called off already.
What a wuss.
Austrian media follow it closely. The reporting goes:
- He'll jump! Today!
- No, he doesn't.
- But today for sure!
- Uhm, no.
Etc.
Quote from: Brazen on October 09, 2012, 02:24:12 PM
He's handsome too, it would be such a waste. Honestly I can't see it happening. 2mph winds at ground level and no more than 4mph on the way up? Could take months.
Seems like an astronaut jumping out of a spaceship wouldn't have the luxury of those conditions.
Quote from: jimmy olsen on October 09, 2012, 11:38:33 PM
Seems like an astronaut jumping out of a spaceship wouldn't have the luxury of those conditions.
(https://languish.org/forums/proxy.php?request=http%3A%2F%2F2.bp.blogspot.com%2F_hDWlz9J7b6E%2FTT8_yCZQtCI%2FAAAAAAAAAHc%2FVltzjAidOLo%2Fs1600%2Flemur-facepalm.jpg&hash=adb5f3826e89ba63e677dacab4f81b13d846ec25)
QuoteNo one knows what happens to a body when it breaks the sound barrier, Clark said.
My guess would be severe internal shifting. Like chips in transit. Contents will settle.
Quote from: merithyn on October 09, 2012, 02:22:16 PM
Max brought this to my attention. I think this guy's an idiot, but hey, what a way to die, right?
Article (http://www.cbsnews.com/8301-205_162-57528449/felix-baumgartner-set-for-jump-from-edge-of-space/)
QuoteExtreme athlete and skydiver Felix Baumgartner hopes to end five years of preparation with a death-defying 23-mile free fall into the southeastern New Mexico desert Tuesday morning.
Weather permitting, the 43-year-old Austrian will take off in a 55-story, ultra-thin and easy-to-tear helium balloon that will take him into the stratosphere for a jump that he hopes will make him the first skydiver to break the sound barrier and shatter three other world records.
The balloon is set to launch at about 7 a.m. local time from a field near the airport in a flat dusty town that until now has been best known for a rumored 1947 UFO landing.
After a nearly three-hour ascent to 120,000 feet, Baumgartner will take a bunny-style hop from a pressurized capsule into a near-vacuum where there is barely any oxygen to begin what is expected to be the fastest, farthest free fall from the highest-ever manned balloon.
But the former military parachutist can only make the jump if winds are no greater than 2 mph. A cold front already delayed the jump by one day, but his team was optimistic Monday that a break before a second cold front is due to arrive Thursday will give him the opportunity to complete his mission.
Baumgartner spent Monday at his hotel, mentally preparing for the dangerous feat with his parents, girlfriend and four close friends, his team said.
Among the risks: any contact with the capsule on his exit could tear the pressurized suit. A rip could expose him to a lack of oxygen and temperatures as low as 70 degrees below zero. It could cause potentially lethal bubbles to form in his bodily fluids, a condition known as "boiling blood."
He could also spin out of control, causing other risky problems.
The energy drink maker Red Bull, which is sponsoring the feat, has been promoting a live Internet stream of the event at this website from nearly 30 cameras on the capsule, the ground and a helicopter. But organizers said there will be a 20-second delay in their broadcast of footage in case of a tragic accident.
Despite the dangers and questionable wind forecast, high performance director Andy Walshe said the team was excited, not nervous.
Baumgartner has made two practice jumps, one from 15 miles in March and another from 18 miles in July.
"With these big moments, you get a kind of sense that the energy changes," he said Monday. "It really is just kind of a heightened energy. It keeps you on your toes. It's not nervousness, it's excitement."
During the ascent, Walshe said, the team will have views from a number of cameras, including one focused directly on Baumgartner's face. Additionally, they will have data from life support and other systems that show things like whether he is getting enough oxygen.
The team also expects constant communication with Baumgartner, although former astronaut Joe Kittinger, whose 1960 free-fall record from 19.5 miles Baumgartner hopes to break, is the only member of mission control who will be allowed to talk to him.
And while Baumgartner hopes to set four new world records, his free fall is more than just a stunt.
His dive from the stratosphere should provide scientists with valuable information for next-generation spacesuits and techniques that could help astronauts survive accidents.
Jumping from more than three times the height of the average cruising altitude for jetliners, Baumgartner's expects to hit a speed of 690 mph or more before he activates his parachute at 9,500 feet above sea level, or about 5,000 above the ground in southeastern New Mexico. The total jump should take about 10 minutes.
His medical director is Dr. Jonathan Clark, a NASA space shuttle crew surgeon who lost his wife, Laurel Clark, in the 2003 Columbia accident. No one knows what happens to a body when it breaks the sound barrier, Clark said.
"That is really the scientific essence of this mission," said Clark, who is dedicated to improving astronauts' chances of survival in a high-altitude disaster.
Clark told reporters Monday he expects Baumgartner's pressurized spacesuit to protect him from the shock waves of breaking the sound barrier. If all goes well and he survives the jump, NASA could certify a new generation of spacesuits for protecting astronauts and provide an escape option from spacecraft at 120,000 feet, he said.
Currently, spacesuits are certified to protect astronauts to 100,000 feet, the level Kittinger reached in 1960. Kittinger's speed of 614 mph was just shy of breaking the sound barrier at that altitude.
Do you think all astronauts are idiots too? Are all scientists?
Quote from: Grey Fox on October 10, 2012, 06:44:37 AM
Quote from: merithyn on October 09, 2012, 02:22:16 PM
Max brought this to my attention. I think this guy's an idiot, but hey, what a way to die, right?
Do you think all astronauts are idiots too? Are all scientists?
What in my statement made you draw any conclusion that I would?
Because what he is doing akin to that. Kittinger did the samething 53 years ago & hes not considered an idiot.
Quote from: Grey Fox on October 10, 2012, 09:56:50 AM
Because what he is doing akin to that. Kittinger did the samething 53 years ago & hes not considered an idiot.
Trying to equate what this man is attempting to do with playing with test tubes and microscopes in a lab (something the majority of scientists do) is rather stupid, imo. So it was rather stupid to imply that I would think that "all scientists" are idiots.
As for do I think that all astronauts are idiots, no, I don't. However, they're in very controlled environments, unlike what this man is attempting.
The fact that this is the first time ever for such a stunt says that there is no equivalent. Ergo, calling him an idiot does not in any way mean that I'm calling anyone else an idiot. Well, except you now.
But it isn't the first time - this exact same thing has been done many times, just not quite as high.
That is like saying the first time someone tried to fly faster than anyone has the time before that is "the first time for such a stunt". Not it isn't - speed records for flying (as an example) were broken over and over and over again. The men flying those planes were not "idiots", I don't think, although plenty paid for the attempt with their lives.
I don't understand what is different about what this guy is doing that makes him an idiot compared to others. What is any less controlled about his environment than Kittingers? They both rode a balloon really high and jumped out, it was very dangerous for both of them.
The only real difference here is what auspice the attempt is being made under - in this case, it is a privately funded attempt as opposed to a government funded and controlled attempt. Is that what defines this as idiotic, rather than brave and noble?
What defines it as idiotic - in my opinion - is going up in a ballon to where there is no atmosphere and jumping out. I think it's stupid. I define that as idiotic and neither brave nor noble.
You're welcome to define idiotic however you choose. To me, this is one way to do so.
So Kittinger was idiotic as well?
And astronauts are idiotic, since they go up in a spaceship where there is no atmosphere?
Or is it specifically the balloon that makes it idiotic? Or the jumping out?
What if he went up in a glider and jumped out?
What if he went up in a balloon, but did not jump out?
*sigh*
Meri thinks Chuck Yeager's a big old pussy, too.
Quote from: Berkut on October 10, 2012, 10:50:54 AM
So Kittinger was idiotic as well?
And astronauts are idiotic, since they go up in a spaceship where there is no atmosphere?
Or is it specifically the balloon that makes it idiotic? Or the jumping out?
What if he went up in a glider and jumped out?
What if he went up in a balloon, but did not jump out?
Quote from: merithyn on October 10, 2012, 10:47:24 AM
What defines it as idiotic - in my opinion - is going up in a ballon to where there is no atmosphere and jumping out. I think it's stupid. I define that as idiotic and neither brave nor noble.
You're welcome to define idiotic however you choose. To me, this is one way to do so.
I find the above stupid. So if that's what Kittinger did, then yes, I think that's idiotic, too.
As for the rest, why do you care?
Quote from: CountDeMoney on October 10, 2012, 10:51:22 AM
Meri thinks Chuck Yeager's a big old pussy, too.
idiotic =/= pussy
The issue, I would have thought, is whether he's taking a real big risk, and if so, what he hopes to accomplish.
Risking your life for a thrill, to get in the record books, or to promote Red Bull, isn't really the same as risking your life to advance science. Assuming he's doing the former and not the latter.
Well, apparently there's some "advancing science" bits attached to it too... testing the suit he's wearing and whatnot.
Yeah, he says it's primarily a science mission.
And Red Bull will give him a lot of bananas if he survives.
The guy is from Zell am See, i.e. around the corner from Dietrich Mateschitz, i.e. Mr. Red Bull himself.
Zell am See, btw. Beautiful place. :)
(https://languish.org/forums/proxy.php?request=http%3A%2F%2Fzell-amsee.at%2F2%2F3%2Ffotos%2Fxlarge%2Fzell_am_see_C2289z.jpg&hash=261492bcab1ff7d1236cc8a6b231b6ce4d954d24)
Mark my words: when word gets out about Red Bull, with the help of marketing gimmicks like this, it will be big.
Quote from: Syt on October 10, 2012, 11:42:19 AM
Zell am See, btw. Beautiful place. :)
(https://languish.org/forums/proxy.php?request=http%3A%2F%2Fzell-amsee.at%2F2%2F3%2Ffotos%2Fxlarge%2Fzell_am_see_C2289z.jpg&hash=261492bcab1ff7d1236cc8a6b231b6ce4d954d24)
Full of Russians.
They're everywhere now, aren't they? :(
Quote from: Syt on October 10, 2012, 11:42:19 AM
Zell am See, btw. Beautiful place. :)
(https://languish.org/forums/proxy.php?request=http%3A%2F%2Fzell-amsee.at%2F2%2F3%2Ffotos%2Fxlarge%2Fzell_am_see_C2289z.jpg&hash=261492bcab1ff7d1236cc8a6b231b6ce4d954d24)
Just like in Band of Brothers.
So....is he dead yet?
Quote from: Josephus on October 10, 2012, 01:51:35 PM
So....is he dead yet?
Still alive. Will probably remain that way until his next attemp on Sunday.
Feed is live and the baloon is inflated.
http://www.youtube.com/user/redbull?v=MrIxH6DToXQ
Not gonna spend 3 hours watching this.
Why does this get so much media attention?
Quote from: Zanza on October 14, 2012, 10:52:18 AM
Why does this get so much media attention?
Same reason why an earth circumnavigation in a balloon gets attention, I guess.
Also, Red Bull marketing.
The Youtube live stream is watched by more than 2.2 million people right now and it's really, really boring.
Watching and leaving it on in the background while doing something else are two different things, though. ;)
*whistles* He's about to jump, come back and watch!
Nope, still doing nothing, still super boring.
That must be a fantastic view for him right now.
He's jumping any time now. he is disconnecting himself from the balloon now.
If he succeeds gravity won't be just a theory anymore.
Did he break the speed of sound?
Well, seems he didn't break the record for longest free fall at least.
Quote from: Zanza on October 14, 2012, 01:11:29 PM
Did he break the speed of sound?
He came close but I'm not sure he got there based on the Youtube feed.
Quote from: Syt on October 14, 2012, 01:13:24 PM
Well, seems he didn't break the record for longest free fall at least.
Nope seems like he pulled the chute awfully early, he is still over 6000' feet up.
TV said he broke it. But I didn't see it on the Youtube feed either.
Well that was pretty god damn impressive. :cool:
Quote from: mongers on October 14, 2012, 01:24:21 PM
Well that was pretty god damn impressive. :cool:
Yeah it was, in all of the discussion of which absurd records he may or may not have broken. I really thought he was in trouble there shortly after he jumped when he seemed to be in an uncontrollable spin, but he recovered.
Yeah, that was the most dangerous part, at the beginning when he had no control due to no air pressure.
(https://languish.org/forums/proxy.php?request=http%3A%2F%2F24.media.tumblr.com%2Ftumblr_mbwallp18g1qetdhio1_500.gif&hash=2948ce0b8ab7b08ef482821437fedd48716129d4)
I still call it insanity, but go him. He survived. Not only that, but apparently, he suffered from crippling claustrophobia in the suit and overcame it to manage the stunt.
Quote from: merithyn on October 14, 2012, 01:54:34 PM
I still call it insanity
But it's not all vanity:
http://www.redbullstratos.com/science/scientific-values/
QuoteLike any transportation system, high-altitude flights need safety procedures; but currently, researchers don't know if it's possible to bail out from ultra-high altitudes. What would happen to a human falling to Earth faster than the speed of sound? Would a spacesuit provide sufficient protection? Would GPS equipment function? Could a drogue parachute provide adequate stabilization?
Worldwide, the answers to such questions are vital. Aviators and astronauts look to extend the boundaries of their exploration and - with the opening of facilities like SpacePort America - the day when everyday people can become space tourists is on the horizon. The mission's findings may point the way toward developing escape systems for the space tourists of the future, as well as for the pilots and astronauts who already need suborbital systems today.
SCIENTIFIC CONTRIBUTION FOCUS
Red Bull Stratos aims to provide information that will further the progression of aerospace safety. The key benefits for the science community are as follows:
- To aid development of a new generation of space suits - including enhanced mobility and visual clarity - and other systems to lead toward passenger/crew exit from space.
- To aid development of protocols for exposure to high altitude/high acceleration.
- To aid exploration of the effects on the human body of supersonic acceleration and deceleration, including development of the latest innovations in parachute systems.
Fail from the bbc commentaroes for not telling us the the older man acting as Capcom" - capsule communicator, was Joe Kittinger who set the record in 1960.
Quote from: sbr on October 14, 2012, 01:46:56 PM
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What I'd like see done to tim. Without a parachute.
That gif is rubbish, if they'd left the footage run another 2-3 seconds, we see him reduced to a small grey dot, a much better demonstration of the acceleration.
Congratulations to Felix Baumgartner, 127,000 ft and 729mph, the real Spirit of Endeavour; Mankind needs to go higher, further and faster.
Big deal. I once ate 20 bowls of chili in one setting.
Quote from: Ed Anger on October 14, 2012, 02:21:55 PM
Big deal. I once ate 20 bowls of chili in one setting.
I see you've been posting in the bbc comments section of the news item:
Quote
Comment number 3. Rob
34 Minutes ago
So this is the most important news story in the world right now? Guy jumps out of balloon. Does nothing for 5 mins. Lands on the ground. This is just one man with too much money and nothing better to do.
Clearly not, the styles are way different.
Meh, worthless without sonic boom pics. I wanted to see what happened to the exposed human body when it does that.
Very cool.
Quote from: mongers on October 14, 2012, 02:13:39 PM
That gif is rubbish, if they'd left the footage run another 2-3 seconds, we see him reduced to a small grey dot, a much better demonstration of the acceleration.
Here you go
(https://languish.org/forums/proxy.php?request=http%3A%2F%2Fi.minus.com%2FiBGiO6fcbwnAV.gif&hash=ed355c289d0aa03ab0ca1b32cadb0fdea40e8775)
Quote from: Malthus on October 10, 2012, 11:01:12 AM
The issue, I would have thought, is whether he's taking a real big risk, and if so, what he hopes to accomplish.
Risking your life for a thrill, to get in the record books, or to promote Red Bull, isn't really the same as risking your life to advance science. Assuming he's doing the former and not the latter.
I think he did it for both. It doesn't change anything to what I think of him. I still think he's crazy, but we need crazy people to advance science by experiements. The first astronauts were certainly a bit crazy. Landing on the moon in a capsule and walking there? So many things can go wrong. Yet, they did it.
It is one of those pointless endeavours, but it still is totally awesome. NOne of us know what that will feel like.
(https://languish.org/forums/proxy.php?request=http%3A%2F%2Fi1.kym-cdn.com%2Fphotos%2Fimages%2Fnewsfeed%2F000%2F418%2F983%2F5dc.jpg&hash=9839deadbd085667a13f7d24658bc8b2c0507d13)
Reminds me of that line "here I am on top of the world, all I need is a beautiful girl."
Quote from: Zanza on October 16, 2012, 12:05:32 PM
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:lmfao:
Quote from: Peter Wiggin on October 16, 2012, 12:18:47 PM
Reminds me of that line "here I am on top of the world, all I need is a beautiful girl."
:x
Quote from: Ed Anger on October 14, 2012, 02:21:55 PM
Big deal. I once ate 20 bowls of chili in one setting.
not good enough as you didn't manage to reach orbit.
Eat more and fly higher!
Dude's 26 year old fiancee is a hottie.
Quote from: Ed Anger on October 14, 2012, 02:21:55 PM
Big deal. I once ate 20 bowls of chili in one setting.
That is pretty risky.
Not offically confirmed gps data show he achieved:
QuoteThe jump in numbers
Exit altitude: 128,100ft; 39,045m
Total jump duration: 9'03"
Freefall time: 4'20"
Freefall distance 119,846ft; 36,529m
Max velocity: 833.9mph; 1,342.8km/h; Mach 1.24
(https://languish.org/forums/proxy.php?request=http%3A%2F%2Fnews.bbcimg.co.uk%2Fmedia%2Fimages%2F63493000%2Fgif%2F_63493074_felix_304_v2.gif&hash=1a5d55560b7588b9c85d85eeb610f28311f2a9ad)
http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/science-environment-19943590 (http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/science-environment-19943590)
Nearly Mach 1.25, I don't think that was achieved until the early 50s by a piloted aircraft.
edit:
even later than I thought, he would have beaten the record set in 1955 by and F100 super sabre, before the Fairy Delta took the airspeed record to a new level in 56 by topping 1000 mph.
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Flight_airspeed_record (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Flight_airspeed_record)
I wonder - assuming that you could match velocities with the planet, is there anything stopping you from free-falling from any distance in space to earth like this guy? I always sort of assumed you would burn up in the atmosphere on re-entry from the friction with the atmosphere, like a meteor - but of course meteors tend to have have a big veocity already vs. Earth.
Quote from: Malthus on October 16, 2012, 04:22:39 PM
I wonder - assuming that you could match velocities with the planet, is there anything stopping you from free-falling from any distance in space to earth like this guy? I always sort of assumed you would burn up in the atmosphere on re-entry from the friction with the atmosphere, like a meteor - but of course meteors tend to have have a big veocity already vs. Earth.
Meteors don't burn up because of friction. It's caused by compressing the gasses in front of the meteor so much they light up. :smarty:
Quote from: Malthus on October 16, 2012, 04:22:39 PM
I wonder - assuming that you could match velocities with the planet, is there anything stopping you from free-falling from any distance in space to earth like this guy? I always sort of assumed you would burn up in the atmosphere on re-entry from the friction with the atmosphere, like a meteor - but of course meteors tend to have have a big veocity already vs. Earth.
I think that's one of the things this jump was meant to get data on. What happens to the human body when it breaks the sound barrier? What effect does a free-fall-induced adrenaline rush have in a low-pressure environment? Stuff like that.
Quote from: Peter Wiggin on October 16, 2012, 03:58:40 PM
Quote from: MadImmortalMan on October 16, 2012, 03:49:01 PM
Dude's 26 year old fiancee is a hottie.
pics?
Here. (http://slimcelebrity.com/celebrity-athletes/nicole-oetl-is-felix-baumgartmers-girlfriend/)
(https://languish.org/forums/proxy.php?request=http%3A%2F%2Fslimcelebrity.com%2Fwp-content%2Fuploads%2F2012%2F10%2FNicole-Oelt-Felix-Baumgartner-girlfriendphoto.jpg&hash=c3c13f4ee48705c6eac73d5db6d04d8eee676caf)
(https://languish.org/forums/proxy.php?request=http%3A%2F%2Fslimcelebrity.com%2Fwp-content%2Fuploads%2F2012%2F10%2FNicole-Oelt-Felix-Baumgartner-girlfriend_picture.jpg&hash=5c63c40c4face68a251729233a67240d148c1e69)
Yeah, I always thought things burned up when re-entering the atmosphere. Like spaceships and their ablative shielding and such. Maybe that is just because they are moving much, much faster and are using the atmosphere as a brake?
In other words, a spaceship could re-enter the earth atmosphere without the need for a heat shield if it did not need to use the atmosphere to slow down?
Quote from: Berkut on October 16, 2012, 06:28:13 PM
Yeah, I always thought things burned up when re-entering the atmosphere. Like spaceships and their ablative shielding and such. Maybe that is just because they are moving much, much faster and are using the atmosphere as a brake?
In other words, a spaceship could re-enter the earth atmosphere without the need for a heat shield if it did not need to use the atmosphere to slow down?
Probably but it would take a lot of fuel. When you come out of orbit you go really, really fast. This guy's speed was Mach 1.2, the space shuttle would clock in at about Mach 25. I guess you could turn an engine to slow your decent, but that would probably be more dangerous and expensive.
Quote from: Berkut on October 16, 2012, 06:28:13 PM
In other words, a spaceship could re-enter the earth atmosphere without the need for a heat shield if it did not need to use the atmosphere to slow down?
That's a very common technique in sci-fi where they have reactionless thrusters. It's not practical for real spaceships, but the theory is sound. It just requires a gigantic amount of thrust while descending.
I got to say things about science that were relevant and true! Today is a wonderful day!
Quote from: Malthus on October 16, 2012, 04:22:39 PM
I wonder - assuming that you could match velocities with the planet, is there anything stopping you from free-falling from any distance in space to earth like this guy? I always sort of assumed you would burn up in the atmosphere on re-entry from the friction with the atmosphere, like a meteor - but of course meteors tend to have have a big veocity already vs. Earth.
Well, technically if you exactly matched speed with the planet, you'd just trail along behind it as it orbited the sun, and never actually "fall". But, A) I know that's not exactly what you meant--at least I don't think that's what you meant; and B) I don't think an orbit like that's stable.
Quote from: Malthus on October 16, 2012, 04:22:39 PM
I wonder - assuming that you could match velocities with the planet, is there anything stopping you from free-falling from any distance in space to earth like this guy? I always sort of assumed you would burn up in the atmosphere on re-entry from the friction with the atmosphere, like a meteor - but of course meteors tend to have have a big veocity already vs. Earth.
If you get too far away the earth's gravity will no longer pull you down and you would just float in space.
Quote from: Berkut on October 16, 2012, 06:28:13 PM
Yeah, I always thought things burned up when re-entering the atmosphere. Like spaceships and their ablative shielding and such. Maybe that is just because they are moving much, much faster and are using the atmosphere as a brake?
In other words, a spaceship could re-enter the earth atmosphere without the need for a heat shield if it did not need to use the atmosphere to slow down?
That's my impression as well.
Quote from: Berkut on October 16, 2012, 06:28:13 PM
Yeah, I always thought things burned up when re-entering the atmosphere. Like spaceships and their ablative shielding and such. Maybe that is just because they are moving much, much faster and are using the atmosphere as a brake?
In other words, a spaceship could re-enter the earth atmosphere without the need for a heat shield if it did not need to use the atmosphere to slow down?
He just wasn't high up enough. If he jumped out of the ISS, then years later his dessicated corpse would burn up in the atmosphere as it came down.
Lego Baumgartner. Almost as technically challenging as the real thing:
http://www.guardian.co.uk/sport/video/2012/oct/15/felix-baumgartner-skydive-lego-video (http://www.guardian.co.uk/sport/video/2012/oct/15/felix-baumgartner-skydive-lego-video)
Quote from: Brazen on October 17, 2012, 04:58:13 AM
Lego Baumgartner. Almost as technically challenging as the real thing:
http://www.guardian.co.uk/sport/video/2012/oct/15/felix-baumgartner-skydive-lego-video (http://www.guardian.co.uk/sport/video/2012/oct/15/felix-baumgartner-skydive-lego-video)
:)
Quote from: sbr on October 16, 2012, 10:18:39 PM
Quote from: Malthus on October 16, 2012, 04:22:39 PM
I wonder - assuming that you could match velocities with the planet, is there anything stopping you from free-falling from any distance in space to earth like this guy? I always sort of assumed you would burn up in the atmosphere on re-entry from the friction with the atmosphere, like a meteor - but of course meteors tend to have have a big veocity already vs. Earth.
If you get too far away the earth's gravity will no longer pull you down and you would just float in space.
It doesn't matter how far away from earth you are, you are stilled "pulled" by its gravity. It's only a question if other forces swamp it.
Meteors burn up in the atmosphere because they hit it at an angle. If they hit at enough of an angle they'll bounce off. If the meteor is coming in head on or near head on (or are big enough) like Baumgartner they don't burn up (meteorite).
Quote from: dps on October 16, 2012, 10:14:43 PM
Quote from: Malthus on October 16, 2012, 04:22:39 PM
I wonder - assuming that you could match velocities with the planet, is there anything stopping you from free-falling from any distance in space to earth like this guy? I always sort of assumed you would burn up in the atmosphere on re-entry from the friction with the atmosphere, like a meteor - but of course meteors tend to have have a big veocity already vs. Earth.
Well, technically if you exactly matched speed with the planet, you'd just trail along behind it as it orbited the sun, and never actually "fall". But, A) I know that's not exactly what you meant--at least I don't think that's what you meant; and B) I don't think an orbit like that's stable.
I meant assume that you could cancel out other forces so that the earth's gravity could pull you straight "down" (that is, accelerating towards the centre of the Earth, starting from rest (relative to the earth) some distance from the earth fully out of the atmosphere.
Could you free-fall to earth wearing a suit and a parachute, no heat shielding?
Malthus, isn't that exactly what he did?
I mean, I suppose you could say he was not fully out of the atmosphere, but at 128,000 feet he is surely out of the vast majority of it, and hence if he could do it from where the atmosphere is that thin, surely he could do it from where it was even thinner (if the atmosphere is the relevant variable).
I think the issue is simply one of speed. If he started from 200k feet (not possible with a balloon I imagine, but lets just say) then maybe he is going Mach 3 when he hits the think part of the atmosphere, and perhaps that is a problem?
Quote from: Berkut on October 17, 2012, 08:18:06 AM
Malthus, isn't that exactly what he did?
Yup, from 37 K up. I'm asking if he could do the same from (say) 370 K up, or 3700 K up (assuming you could - I know you obviously couldn't use the balloon method). Would it make any difference at all, other than taking longer in free fall?
I assume the answer is "no" but I don't know.
Edit: I see you have added. Yes, that's the sort of issue. Normally, in some sort of atmosphere there is some limit to how fast you can go - some terminal velocity, however great. In his fall, the guy reached Mach 1.4 before being slowed by the atmosphere thickening around him - what if he fell hundreds of kilometers, rather than tens?
I think the only different is that you would get going a lot faster, of course. The only thing slowing you down is air resistance, of which there is little or none about 50k ft.
Just did a quick check - the issue is angular speed. To go into orbit, you need to be going really, really fast sideways (depending on your height). So the issue is slowing down when you re-enter.
Say you are in a capsule 100km up. To be in orbit, you have to be going something like Mach 23. So when you slow down (and hence your orbital height drops), you have to bleed an incredible amount of energy. So it is not *necessary* to burn through the atmosphere to come back down to Earth from orbit, but it isn't realistic to do otherwise. In theory, a spacecraft could simply apply acceleration to counter their angular velocity, and "come down slow", but that would require an incredible amount of thrust - probably an appreciable fraction of the amount that got them into orbit in the first place.
Here is what a system proposed in the 60s for returning from orbit with minimal equipment looked like: http://www.astronautix.com/craft/moose.htm
From orbit, your initial speed would be closer to mach 24 than mach 3. If you were stationary relative to the earth etc. and started far enough away you could reach the same speed by the time you hit the atmosphere. But you would be in trouble, as you would be coming straight down rather than flying in at an angle, so you don't have so many options about controlling your trajectory and how fast you bleed off energy.
It's an interesting question. I guess there are two opposing forces in play. The atmosphere slows you down, so you don't go fast enough to burn up. But does it slow you down slowly enough but at the same time sufficiently as it's thickening?
To be out of the Earth's atmosphere he would need to be quite a bit higher. The atmosphere slows you down quite a bit which is why we have a terminal velocity. If you leapt out of a rocket at the point it left Earth's atmosphere, you would fall toward earth quite a bit faster then if you jumped off a very tall building or a mountain. I don't know if it would be fast enough to burn up on retry, I mean, this is similar to what Ballistic missiles do.
Quote from: Pishtaco on October 17, 2012, 08:29:01 AM
Here is what a system proposed in the 60s for returning from orbit with minimal equipment looked like: http://www.astronautix.com/craft/moose.htm
From orbit, your initial speed would be closer to mach 24 than mach 3. If you were stationary relative to the earth etc. and started far enough away you could reach the same speed by the time you hit the atmosphere. But you would be in trouble, as you would be coming straight down rather than flying in at an angle, so you don't have so many options about controlling your trajectory and how fast you bleed off energy.
Well, from Malthus's statement I took his hypothetical death seeker was not coming out of orbit, so he doesn't have to worry about bleeding off the speed required to orbit the Earth. It'd probably be like those early V2 rocket tests where they just shot one straight up to see what happened.
Quote from: Berkut on October 17, 2012, 08:28:17 AM
I think the only different is that you would get going a lot faster, of course. The only thing slowing you down is air resistance, of which there is little or none about 50k ft.
Just did a quick check - the issue is angular speed. To go into orbit, you need to be going really, really fast sideways (depending on your height). So the issue is slowing down when you re-enter.
Say you are in a capsule 100km up. To be in orbit, you have to be going something like Mach 23. So when you slow down (and hence your orbital height drops), you have to bleed an incredible amount of energy. So it is not *necessary* to burn through the atmosphere to come back down to Earth from orbit, but it isn't realistic to do otherwise. In theory, a spacecraft could simply apply acceleration to counter their angular velocity, and "come down slow", but that would require an incredible amount of thrust - probably an appreciable fraction of the amount that got them into orbit in the first place.
The hypothetical presumes your test subject isn't in orbit, but at rest; so that they drop like a stone, not like a returning spacecraft.
My unscientific take is that it's about the velocities of everything involve relative to earth.
So the atmosphere is travelling at about 1000 mph relative to the centre of the earth, though ignoring effects like winds and jet-streams, is roughly keeping pace with the same place on earth.
What space craft, many satellites and the space station are doing is travelling much faster relative to the atmosphere, orbiting in say 90 minutes, 2,3 or 4 hours, so when they re-enter the atmosphere at many 1000s mph they encounter air molecules at very high impact speeds, hence all of the heating and eventual slowing down.
What our fearless Austrian guy is doing is just falling down through a gradually thickening atmosphere that naturally slows him, without ever getting near those high speeds relative to the atmosphere.
If you look at ICBMs, the early V1 only had a range of a couple of hundred miles, but still achieved significant altitudes,iirc 60-90 miles up, yet didn't need any heat shielding because they weren't producing significant speeds relative to direction of travel of the atmosphere.
Whereas modern icbms have to travel much further in 30 odd minutes and so are moving very fast relative to the air molecules when they re-enter, hence the need for shielding of the RV/warheads
Quote from: Malthus on October 17, 2012, 08:41:58 AM
Quote from: Berkut on October 17, 2012, 08:28:17 AM
I think the only different is that you would get going a lot faster, of course. The only thing slowing you down is air resistance, of which there is little or none about 50k ft.
Just did a quick check - the issue is angular speed. To go into orbit, you need to be going really, really fast sideways (depending on your height). So the issue is slowing down when you re-enter.
Say you are in a capsule 100km up. To be in orbit, you have to be going something like Mach 23. So when you slow down (and hence your orbital height drops), you have to bleed an incredible amount of energy. So it is not *necessary* to burn through the atmosphere to come back down to Earth from orbit, but it isn't realistic to do otherwise. In theory, a spacecraft could simply apply acceleration to counter their angular velocity, and "come down slow", but that would require an incredible amount of thrust - probably an appreciable fraction of the amount that got them into orbit in the first place.
The hypothetical presumes your test subject isn't in orbit, but at rest; so that they drop like a stone, not like a returning spacecraft.
Right. In which case I don't think there is a problem other than the need to slow down before he hits the earths surface.
Quote from: Berkut on October 17, 2012, 09:19:34 AM
Right. In which case I don't think there is a problem other than the need to slow down before he hits the earths surface.
There is also a need to slow down before you hit the thick atmosphere. My guess is that you want your speed to fall at least proportionally with the terminal velocity at the height you're traveling. If you just zip through the thin part of the atmosphere without slowing down much, the thick part of the atmosphere will burn you up while slowing you down.
Quote from: DGuller on October 17, 2012, 09:26:18 AM
Quote from: Berkut on October 17, 2012, 09:19:34 AM
Right. In which case I don't think there is a problem other than the need to slow down before he hits the earths surface.
There is also a need to slow down before you hit the thick atmosphere. My guess is that you want your speed to fall at least proportionally with the terminal velocity at the height you're traveling. If you just zip through the thin part of the atmosphere without slowing down much, the thick part of the atmosphere will burn you up while slowing you down.
This is indeed the issue - though I don't know the answer: whether its no problemo as long as you have space suit and parachute, or whether, without a heat shield, you will return as fried as a Scottish Mars Bar.
Problem is that pretty well nothing actually falls like this normally.
We should put Mythbusters on the case.
Quote from: DGuller on October 17, 2012, 09:35:49 AM
We should put Mythbusters on the case.
It's not a bad one. :lol:
First, someone has to give them a spaceship ...
Quote from: DGuller on October 17, 2012, 09:26:18 AM
Quote from: Berkut on October 17, 2012, 09:19:34 AM
Right. In which case I don't think there is a problem other than the need to slow down before he hits the earths surface.
There is also a need to slow down before you hit the thick atmosphere. My guess is that you want your speed to fall at least proportionally with the terminal velocity at the height you're traveling. If you just zip through the thin part of the atmosphere without slowing down much, the thick part of the atmosphere will burn you up while slowing you down.
I actually do not think that is an issue - once your speed gets high enough that you could burn up going through, you are going to be through so fast it won't matter as you impact the earth at some ridiculous speed, assuming a nearly vertical fall.
The "thick" atmosphere is pretty thin when approached at a direct angle to the earths surface. I mean, I suppose you could have some friction issues.
But look at this jump as an example = he reached way higher than terminal velocity in the initial jump, right? So he slowed down a bit once the atmosphere thickened, with no harmful effects at all - went from 700+ mph to something like 130 (if I remember TV correctly).
If he was going fast enough that friction with the air was relevant, he would be doing some speed that slowing down to avoid friction is the least of his problems - running into the surface in the next 10 seconds doing Mach 10 is a much bigger problem.
Spaceships need ablative shielding because they enter the atmosphere at an extreme angle - really just deep enough not to "skip" off as they use the atmosphere to slow them down to a safe landing speed. So they are entering the thick atmosphere at some relatively insane angular speed, and will spend quite a lot of time going nearly horizontal to the earth surface through the thick part, right?
Quote from: Malthus on October 17, 2012, 09:30:46 AM
Quote from: DGuller on October 17, 2012, 09:26:18 AM
Quote from: Berkut on October 17, 2012, 09:19:34 AM
Right. In which case I don't think there is a problem other than the need to slow down before he hits the earths surface.
There is also a need to slow down before you hit the thick atmosphere. My guess is that you want your speed to fall at least proportionally with the terminal velocity at the height you're traveling. If you just zip through the thin part of the atmosphere without slowing down much, the thick part of the atmosphere will burn you up while slowing you down.
This is indeed the issue - though I don't know the answer: whether its no problemo as long as you have space suit and parachute, or whether, without a heat shield, you will return as fried as a Scottish Mars Bar.
I suspect that spacesuit plus parachute will work as long as your velocity on entering the atmosphere is low enough that there is sufficient time for the atmosphere to slow you down enough that the parachute will work.
In other words, at some velocity x, a perfect heat shield won't save you, because you won't slow down enough in the atmosphere to deploy your parachute. And I suspect that velocity is LOWER than the velocity where you would need a heat shield to begin with.
This thread needs Ide.
Quote from: Razgovory on October 17, 2012, 10:44:59 AM
This thread needs Ide.
What, are you suggesting we toss him out of a spaceship to test these theories? Nasty!
;)
Why do space walking astronauts float next to the shuttle and not fall to earth?
Quote from: sbr on October 17, 2012, 11:20:13 AM
Why do space walking astronauts float next to the shuttle and not fall to earth?
Duh.
Obviously the gravity from the shuttle holds them close to it.
Quote from: Malthus on October 17, 2012, 10:53:18 AM
Quote from: Razgovory on October 17, 2012, 10:44:59 AM
This thread needs Ide.
What, are you suggesting we toss him out of a spaceship to test these theories? Nasty!
;)
Well, I'm not sure if your scenario is possible as it's difficult for an object to be "at rest" in the upper atmosphere. I think the closest is a rocket that is shot vertically, reaches it's apogee and then fall back to earth. This is an amateur rocket that reached space and then fell back down, http://www.ddeville.com/derek/CSXT.htm It did not appear to burn up on the way down, though it looks a bit scuffed up.
Quote from: sbr on October 17, 2012, 11:20:13 AM
Why do space walking astronauts float next to the shuttle and not fall to earth?
Cause they and the shuttle are both falling at the same speed, they are just falling sideways.
Quote from: sbr on October 17, 2012, 11:20:13 AM
Why do space walking astronauts float next to the shuttle and not fall to earth?
The same reason the shuttle itself doesn't fall to earth, the astronaut's in orbit. It doesn't matter if they are inside or outside the shuttle.
Quote from: Malthus on October 17, 2012, 10:53:18 AM
Quote from: Razgovory on October 17, 2012, 10:44:59 AM
This thread needs Ide.
What, are you suggesting we toss him out of a spaceship to test these theories? Nasty!
;)
I was going to suggest Timmay.
Does it say anywhere what happened to the capsule? Did it just crash down?
And I vote we send both Ide and Tim up to test this further, we can drop them at different altitudes. We can also include Lettow, but I am not sure we can afford 3 space suits. ;)
Quote from: lustindarkness on October 17, 2012, 01:00:19 PM
Does it say anywhere what happened to the capsule? Did it just crash down?
And I vote we send both Ide and Tim up to test this further, we can drop them at different altitudes. We can also include Lettow, but I am not sure we can afford 3 space suits. ;)
Lettow will be sent up in a burlap sack.
Quote from: lustindarkness on October 17, 2012, 01:00:19 PM
Does it say anywhere what happened to the capsule? Did it just crash down?
QuoteAs soon as it was confirmed that Baumgartner had landed safely, the attention of mission control shifted to the balloon and capsule. The team remotely detached the capsule from the balloon, allowing it to fall back to Earth under its own parachute. It hit the ground 55 miles east of Baumgartner's own landing site. The balloon was deflated via a nylon "destruct line", with the lightweight balloon material – known as the envelope – falling back to Earth to be gathered and removed by truck. The capsule could, in theory, be used again, but the balloon envelope can only be used once.
Quote from: Berkut on October 17, 2012, 01:30:22 PM
Quote from: lustindarkness on October 17, 2012, 01:00:19 PM
Does it say anywhere what happened to the capsule? Did it just crash down?
QuoteAs soon as it was confirmed that Baumgartner had landed safely, the attention of mission control shifted to the balloon and capsule. The team remotely detached the capsule from the balloon, allowing it to fall back to Earth under its own parachute. It hit the ground 55 miles east of Baumgartner's own landing site. The balloon was deflated via a nylon "destruct line", with the lightweight balloon material – known as the envelope – falling back to Earth to be gathered and removed by truck. The capsule could, in theory, be used again, but the balloon envelope can only be used once.
Cool stuff. :cool:
Quote from: frunk on October 17, 2012, 11:48:33 AM
Quote from: sbr on October 17, 2012, 11:20:13 AM
Why do space walking astronauts float next to the shuttle and not fall to earth?
The same reason the shuttle itself doesn't fall to earth, the astronaut's in orbit. It doesn't matter if they are inside or outside the shuttle.
So my original point
Quote from: sbr on October 16, 2012, 10:18:39 PM
If you get too far away the earth's gravity will no longer pull you down and you would just float in space.
stands.
Quote from: sbr on October 17, 2012, 04:05:42 PM
Quote from: frunk on October 17, 2012, 11:48:33 AM
Quote from: sbr on October 17, 2012, 11:20:13 AM
Why do space walking astronauts float next to the shuttle and not fall to earth?
The same reason the shuttle itself doesn't fall to earth, the astronaut's in orbit. It doesn't matter if they are inside or outside the shuttle.
So my original point
Quote from: sbr on October 16, 2012, 10:18:39 PM
If you get too far away the earth's gravity will no longer pull you down and you would just float in space.
stands.
Being far away from a gravitational source isn't the same as being in orbit. Earth still pulls on you no matter where you are (just like you pull on the earth). Being in orbit is, as Raz stated, like continually falling but missing. I think a diagram would work best. Astronaut is a, Earth is E, the G arrow shows the direction of Earth's pull on the astronaut, the M arrow the direction of motion.
M
a ---->
|
| G
V
E
So gravity is pulling the astronaut directly towards Earth, but his relative velocity to the Earth means that by the time a has reached E in the vertical plane they are to the side in the horizontal plane.
G
E <---- a
|
| M
V
If we compare that to an astronaut with no relative velocity to the Earth, even if extremely far away:
a
|
| G
V
E
If the only thing acting on the astronaut is Earth's gravitational pull, they'll drop straight down like an apple falling from a tree.
I wonder how far away from earth you have to be before farting leads to a fatal course deviation? Or is that not going to matter unless your space suit has a hole in the ass?
You should probably hold it just to be safe.
http://spaceplace.nasa.gov/how-orbits-work/
(https://lh3.googleusercontent.com/-igfa9YUHmeo/UHsfNwLoHbI/AAAAAAABJbM/3dWQK7utvHg/w497-h373/jump.gif)
Syt, I've been watching for a couple hours--exactly how many cats are there?
:lol:
Cats are such lemmings.
Holy Thread Necromancy, Batman!
The record has been broken, with significantly less fanfare than when Baumgartner did it.
http://www.theguardian.com/us-news/2014/oct/25/google-executive-alan-eustace-beats-felix-baumgartners-skydiving-record
QuoteGoogle executive Alan Eustace beats Felix Baumgartner's skydiving record
Eustace jumps 130,000ft from edge of space, hitting 822mph, after ascent in a balloon
Google executive Alan Eustace has broken the sound barrier and set several skydiving records over the southern New Mexico desert after taking a big leap from the edge of space.
Eustace jumped from over 130,000ft in a specially designed spacesuit, beating the mark set by the Austrian Felix Baumgartner in 2012. Eustace hit a top speed of 822mph during a freefall that lasted four-and-a-half minutes.
The supersonic jump was part of a project by Paragon Space Development Corp and its Stratospheric Explorer team, which has been working secretly for years to develop a self-contained commercial spacesuit that would allow people to explore some 20 miles above the Earth's surface.
The technology that has gone into developing the balloon, the spacesuit and the other systems that were used in Friday's launch will be used to advance commercial spaceflight, namely efforts by Arizona-based World View Enterprises to take paying tourists up in a high-altitude balloon and luxury capsule starting in late 2016.
As more people head into the stratosphere, the spacesuits could be adapted for emergency rescues or other scientific endeavours, officials said.
After nearly three years of intense planning, development and training, Eustace began his ascent via a high-altitude, helium-filled balloon just as the sun was rising.
It took more than two hours to hit an altitude of 135,890 feet (41,419 metres), from which he separated himself from the balloon and started plummeting back to Earth.
Jim Hayhurst, director of competition at the United States Parachute Association, was the jump's official observer. He said Eustace deployed a drogue parachute that gave him incredible stability and control despite the massive Mach 1.23 speed reached during the freefall.
Eustace did not feel it when he broke the sound barrier, but the ground crew certainly heard the resulting sonic boom, Hayhurst said.
"He just said it was a fabulous view. He was thrilled," Hayhurst said of his conversation with Eustace after he landed.
The supersonic skydive happened with little fanfare, out of the media spotlight, unlike the 2012 attempt by daredevil Baumgartner and the Red Bull Stratos team.
Baumgartner, who was taken aloft in a capsule with the help of millions of dollars in sponsorships, had set the previous altitude record by jumping from 128,100 feet (39,045 meters).