:bleeding:
http://talkbusiness.net/2012/10/rep-jon-hubbard-slavery-a-blessing-in-disguise/
Quote
Rep. Jon Hubbard: Slavery 'A Blessing In Disguise'
By Michael Cook
October 5th, 2012
[email protected]
Some of Arkansas' Republican legislators are radical extremists whose views are far outside the mainstream of Arkansas.
I've written previously about State Rep. Loy Mauch's radical beliefs, now it's time to examine the extremism of another Republican state legislator – Jon Hubbard.
Republican State Rep. Jon Hubbard published a book entitled, "Letters to the Editor: Confessions of a Frustrated Conservative," and using highly sophisticated oppo research skills that Republicans complain about, I read some of what he wrote. What Jon Hubbard writes and believes will blow your hair back.
From reading Hubbard's writings, it is clear he believes that African-Americans are lazy, ignorant, lack discipline and that they should be thankful they were once enslaved. My previous sentence is inflammatory, but that is what Hubbard has basically written in his book. And by the end of this post you'll believe I even held back a little.
Let's start looking at the extreme words Hubbard put to paper.
First, Hubbard believes that slavery was, in the end, a good thing for African-Americans:
"... the institution of slavery that the black race has long believed to be an abomination upon its people may actually have been a blessing in disguise. The blacks who could endure those conditions and circumstances would someday be rewarded with citizenship in the greatest nation ever established upon the face of the Earth." (Pages 183-89)
Here is what Hubbard is really saying: Hey black folks, yeah, I know, we kept you in chains for hundreds of years, beat you, raped your women, lynched innocent teenagers, destroyed your families, but isn't that really a good thing?
Hubbard believes integrating schools is harmful to white students because, in his opinion, blacks are lazy, have no discipline and are causing a decline in education:
"... one of the stated purposes of school integration was to bring black students up to a level close to that of white students. But, to the great disappointment of everyone, the results of this theory worked exactly in reverse of its intended purpose, and instead of black students rising to the educational levels previously attained by white students, the white students dropped to the level of black students. To make matters worse the lack of discipline and ambition of black students soon became shared by their white classmates, and our educational system has been in a steady decline ever since." (Page 27)
Hubbard believes blacks are too ignorant to know the value of a good education:
"Wouldn't life for blacks in America today be more enjoyable and successful if they would only learn to appreciate the value of a good education?" (Page 184)
Hubbard believes black folks were lucky they were once enslaved because living in Africa is bad:
African Americans must "understand that even while in the throes of slavery, their lives as Americans are likely much better than they ever would have enjoyed living in sub-Saharan Africa."
"Knowing what we know today about life on the African continent, would an existence spent in slavery have been any crueler than a life spent in sub-Saharan Africa?" (Pages 93 and 189)
Here is where Hubbard basically says black folks are lazy and don't do anything worthwhile:
"... will it ever become possible for black people in the United States of America to firmly establish themselves as inclusive and contributing members of society within this country?" (Page 187)
It blows my mind that this man is an elected state representative. Are the above views shared by others in the Republican legislative caucus? Have any Republican legislators ever denounced Hubbard from writing straight-out racist statements? Is this representative of the Republican Party of Arkansas reflective of the party's attitude toward African-American Arkansans? Will they condemn this intolerance and ignorant attitude? Silence will speak volumes.
I doubt folks in Craighead County had any idea about Hubbard's core beliefs in 2010 when they first elected him. Harold Copenhaver is running against this condescending, clueless and yes, I'll say it, racist incumbent and hopefully the Democratic challenger is getting the word out about the extremist Jon Hubbard.
I am currently reading a book where Lincoln is busy trying to figure out how counter the belief that slavery was good for African-Americans.
(https://dl.dropbox.com/u/51524/Lincoln_slavery.png)
Isn't the richest black African richer than the richest black American? Land of opportunity = Africa.
Do you really deny that it is a far better deal to end up born in America than Africa? The descendants of slaves suffered none of the ill effects, but certainly have reaped benefits. That a life as a slave in the South would be better than as an African tribesman isn't a stretch either- it's certainly the choice i'd pick.
As for integration lowering the quality of Southern schools, this also appears to be true. Certainly blacks were disruptive and lowered the educational quality of every school i've ever been in.
And it is also true that the black community undervalues educational attainment, and is an insular group of dependency and non-contribution. (Albeit it is too simple to blame them for this- the country did much to -make- them an insular group.)
These look like a bunch of inconvenient truths assailed by people with too distant a perspective to me.
Salvery, Tim? Really?
Quote from: Lettow77 on October 07, 2012, 01:06:42 AM
Do you really deny that it is a far better deal to end up born in America than Africa? The descendants of slaves suffered none of the ill effects, but certainly have reaped benefits. That a life as a slave in the South would be better than as an African tribesman isn't a stretch either- it's certainly the choice i'd pick.
As for integration lowering the quality of Southern schools, this also appears to be true. Certainly blacks were disruptive and lowered the educational quality of every school i've ever been in.
And it is also true that the black community undervalues educational attainment, and is an insular group of dependency and non-contribution. (Albeit it is too simple to blame them for this- the country did much to -make- them an insular group.)
These look like a bunch of inconvenient truths assailed by people with too distant a perspective to me.
And to think, I thought you were getting better.
Quote from: The Brain on October 07, 2012, 01:00:44 AM
Isn't the richest black African richer than the richest black American? Land of opportunity = Africa.
By that metric the real land of opportunity is Mexico.
QuoteThat a life as a slave in the South would be better than as an African tribesman isn't a stretch either- it's certainly the choice i'd pick.
Ok, but as you've said yourself, you're a naturally servile sort who wants to go to Japan just so people will look down on you.
Quote from: Lettow77 on October 07, 2012, 01:06:42 AM
Do you really deny that it is a far better deal to end up born in America than Africa? The descendants of slaves suffered none of the ill effects, but certainly have reaped benefits. That a life as a slave in the South would be better than as an African tribesman isn't a stretch either- it's certainly the choice i'd pick.
As for integration lowering the quality of Southern schools, this also appears to be true. Certainly blacks were disruptive and lowered the educational quality of every school i've ever been in.
And it is also true that the black community undervalues educational attainment, and is an insular group of dependency and non-contribution. (Albeit it is too simple to blame them for this- the country did much to -make- them an insular group.)
These look like a bunch of inconvenient truths assailed by people with too distant a perspective to me.
The only possible response to this is...
Fuck you, Lettow, you racist piece of shit.
Quote from: Lettow77 on October 07, 2012, 01:06:42 AM
Do you really deny that it is a far better deal to end up born in America than Africa?
God knows what the fuck that has to do with anything. Should Irish-Americans be thankful the British starved their forebears out of Ireland? Jewish-Americans be thankful for Krystalnacht? That's retarded.
By doing something horrible some people in past quite accidentally and only barely arguably did some folks a good turn, maybe. THEY'RE THE REAL HEROES.
This without even getting into how the attitudes that led to the slave trade in the first place fed directly into in situ enslavement on the continent later on and turned black Africa into the hellhole we know and usually don't think about today.
Quote from: Ideologue on October 07, 2012, 01:19:26 AM
This without even getting into how the attitudes that led to the slave trade in the first place fed directly into in situ enslavement on the continent later on and turned black Africa into the hellhole we know and usually don't think about today.
Africa wasn't turned into a hellhole*, they simply never stopped being one.
*Seems a bit harsh. 21st century Africa is a better place to live than 18th century anywhere.
Are you sure about thay?
Is it really so untenable even here on languish to come out and admit that black culture in america doesn't exactly put education on a pillar, but that they'd be better off if they did?
America as a whole is woefully anti-intellectual, but african-american culture is downright perverse about it.
Quote from: sbr on October 07, 2012, 01:32:19 AM
Are you sure about thay?
Dunno. They get floating cities and stuff, but the country is pretty oppressive, what with the red wizards' regime and Bane's worship.
Legalize drugs. Reduce non-violent crime penalties. Destroy the unions.
Are labor unions a problem in africa?
Quote from: sbr on October 07, 2012, 01:32:19 AM
Are you sure about thay?
Yes. I am a time lord and have traveled extensively in both eras. :bowler:
Quote from: sbr on October 07, 2012, 01:45:15 AM
Are labor unions a problem in africa?
I got the impression from Louis Theorux's shows that the Lagos unions are somewhat corrupt.
Quote from: Phillip V on October 07, 2012, 01:41:23 AM
Legalize drugs. Reduce non-violent crime penalties. Destroy the unions.
You are a weirdo, you know. You always come up with "solutions" that are partially right, partially wrong, and partially orthogonal to reality as we know it.
Quote from: sbr on October 07, 2012, 01:45:15 AM
Are labor unions a problem in africa?
Anglo American Platinum just fired 12,000 striking miners who would have liked to earn a reasonable living in South Africa, so I think: not really.
Quote from: Phillip V on October 07, 2012, 01:41:23 AM
Legalize drugs. Reduce non-violent crime penalties. Destroy the unions.
Unions are pretty powerless in the South, though..
It's certainly the case that our prison system is awful, and that the war on drugs has done horrible things to black communities. They are both failed policies. Prison and drug reform would be an impossible sell here, though- you immediately bat your head against the race issue. What are you, soft on blacks? Letting those thugs go free? Rewarding their criminal ways?
The South has too many of its social policies absolutely poisoned- there is unreasoned rejection of plenty of matters because the issue is northern or would be of material succor to blacks. The South has a reflexive factional siege mentality bad. :(
Sorry but every time I see the title I can't help but think
(https://languish.org/forums/proxy.php?request=http%3A%2F%2Ffinancialuproar.com%2Fwp-content%2Fuploads%2F2010%2F05%2Fdrooling-homer-simpson.jpg&hash=1c17e347faffa4337542d46265330aa16c3b4d74)
"mmm, slavery"
There are times I think keeping the Union intact was a bad idea. Free the slaves, fuck the South.
Quote from: Syt on October 07, 2012, 01:08:34 AM
Salvery, Tim? Really?
Fuckin' hell... :Embarrass:
Quote from: sbr on October 07, 2012, 01:45:15 AM
Are labor unions a problem in africa?
For people who want to run slave labor camps.
Quote from: Ideologue on October 07, 2012, 01:19:26 AM
Quote from: Lettow77 on October 07, 2012, 01:06:42 AM
Do you really deny that it is a far better deal to end up born in America than Africa?
God knows what the fuck that has to do with anything. Should Irish-Americans be thankful the British starved their forebears out of Ireland? Jewish-Americans be thankful for Krystalnacht? That's retarded.
By doing something horrible some people in past quite accidentally and only barely arguably did some folks a good turn, maybe. THEY'RE THE REAL HEROES.
This without even getting into how the attitudes that led to the slave trade in the first place fed directly into in situ enslavement on the continent later on and turned black Africa into the hellhole we know and usually don't think about today.
Well to be fair, there is a tiny kernel of truth in to this. Early Modern Africa was a really shity place. Exporting slaves predated the European interest in it, and people would sell themselves and their children into slavery just so they wouldn't starve. Several African kingdoms also had the bad habit of ritually sacrificing slaves. Of course many of the wars where slaves were captured were egged on by the Europeans so with out Europeans there would probably be less wars, slave taking and famine. So it's sorta like how a Ukrainian should be happy that the Soviet Union won WWII so they can be enslaved and brutalized rather then exterminated. Kind of a weak positive.
There is a personal pet peeve of mine here, that we don't talk much about the African role in the slave trade. When I was in high school I got the impression that Europeans would just land in Africa and capture Idyllic Africans in nets like bunny rabbits or something. I later found out that many African kingdoms were eager to sell slaves to who ever wanted them.
Quote from: Martinus on October 07, 2012, 01:53:25 AM
Quote from: Phillip V on October 07, 2012, 01:41:23 AM
Legalize drugs. Reduce non-violent crime penalties. Destroy the unions.
You are a weirdo, you know. You always come up with "solutions" that are partially right, partially wrong, and partially orthogonal to reality as we know it.
I don't see a partially right solution to any of this.
Quote from: Razgovory on October 07, 2012, 04:03:55 AM
There is a personal pet peeve of mine here, that we don't talk much about the African role in the slave trade. When I was in high school I got the impression that Europeans would just land in Africa and capture Idyllic Africans in nets like bunny rabbits or something. I later found out that many African kingdoms were eager to sell slaves to who ever wanted them.
It's White Guilt at work.
QuoteThere is a personal pet peeve of mine here, that we don't talk much about the African role in the slave trade. When I was in high school I got the impression that Europeans would just land in Africa and capture Idyllic Africans in nets like bunny rabbits or something. I later found out that many African kingdoms were eager to sell slaves to who ever wanted them.
Yeah, that always sucks.
Even worse is the way you get crazies going on about how christianity is evil and non-African and has brought nothing but pain to Africans. Islam now! Islam is a good African religion. Muslims never did anything wrong! (except you know, take more slaves in their own right and play a major part in the European dealing....)
Quote from: Razgovory on October 07, 2012, 04:03:55 AM
There is a personal pet peeve of mine here, that we don't talk much about the African role in the slave trade. When I was in high school I got the impression that Europeans would just land in Africa and capture Idyllic Africans in nets like bunny rabbits or something. I later found out that many African kingdoms were eager to sell slaves to who ever wanted them.
Your teachers need to be fired. If they are retired, take away their pensions.
The way I recall it was taught to me in school was
- go with trinkets to Africa and trade for slaves
- take slaves to America
- ship Colonial produce to Europe
=> Profit!
Are there any porn available historically depicting white male master and black female slave?
Give Katmai $20000 for production costs and there can be. :D
I was pretty sure I remember seeing something to that effect, but then it turned out to have been so severely whitewashed as to be the relationship between an aristocratic southern belle and her white, female maid. As expected of Japan :lol:
http://myanimelist.net/anime/2136/Front_Innocent
WHO DEY THAT THINK THEY CAN ENSLAVE DEM AFRICANS?
Quote from: Barrister on October 07, 2012, 01:17:49 AM
Quote from: Lettow77 on October 07, 2012, 01:06:42 AM
Do you really deny that it is a far better deal to end up born in America than Africa? The descendants of slaves suffered none of the ill effects, but certainly have reaped benefits. That a life as a slave in the South would be better than as an African tribesman isn't a stretch either- it's certainly the choice i'd pick.
As for integration lowering the quality of Southern schools, this also appears to be true. Certainly blacks were disruptive and lowered the educational quality of every school i've ever been in.
And it is also true that the black community undervalues educational attainment, and is an insular group of dependency and non-contribution. (Albeit it is too simple to blame them for this- the country did much to -make- them an insular group.)
These look like a bunch of inconvenient truths assailed by people with too distant a perspective to me.
The only possible response to this is...
Fuck you, Lettow, you racist piece of shit.
:hug:
Quote from: Peter Wiggin on October 07, 2012, 04:37:10 AM
Give Katmai $20000 for production costs and there can be. :D
$20k?
Not gonna be very good for that little scratch.
Quote from: Razgovory on October 07, 2012, 04:03:55 AM
Several African kingdoms also had the bad habit of ritually sacrificing slaves.
Whom? Where? Other than Carthage.
Quote from: chipwich on October 07, 2012, 08:14:15 AM
Quote from: Razgovory on October 07, 2012, 04:03:55 AM
Several African kingdoms also had the bad habit of ritually sacrificing slaves.
Whom? Where? Other than Carthage.
I thought they nominally sacrificed family children (and adopted slave children for the purpose of sacrifice).
Quote from: Barrister on October 07, 2012, 01:17:49 AM
Quote from: Lettow77 on October 07, 2012, 01:06:42 AM
Do you really deny that it is a far better deal to end up born in America than Africa? The descendants of slaves suffered none of the ill effects, but certainly have reaped benefits. That a life as a slave in the South would be better than as an African tribesman isn't a stretch either- it's certainly the choice i'd pick.
As for integration lowering the quality of Southern schools, this also appears to be true. Certainly blacks were disruptive and lowered the educational quality of every school i've ever been in.
And it is also true that the black community undervalues educational attainment, and is an insular group of dependency and non-contribution. (Albeit it is too simple to blame them for this- the country did much to -make- them an insular group.)
These look like a bunch of inconvenient truths assailed by people with too distant a perspective to me.
The only possible response to this is...
Fuck you, Lettow, you racist piece of shit.
That's what's so funny about Lettuce; he's an unrepentant Southern racist, but when it comes to his own status, he's more than happy to travel to a country as xenophobic and racist as Japan to become a willing submissive to a culture that has an even worse opinion of him than any Southerner could of his own amply pigmented countrymen.
The only conclusion I can draw is that he's one of those self-loathing latent gay racists that outwardly hates the black man with a passion, yet secretly yearn for multiple violent reamings of massive mandingo cock.
Quote from: Syt on October 07, 2012, 04:26:24 AM
The way I recall it was taught to me in school was
- go with trinkets to Africa and trade for slaves
- take slaves to America
- ship Colonial produce to Europe
=> Profit!
The whole issue is very complicated.
In the first days when we Portugese arrived in Subsaharan Africa (Angola and the Sahel especially) in the XVth century, the first thing we had to do was to save the local tribes from an attack by cannibals from the interior. And that was what defeat meant in Africa - losers got eaten.
(The cannibals we defeated, in fact, were mobile and quick, and after having been turned away at Angola they're recorded in attacks on Mombassa, on the other side of the continent, by next year - they achieved their mobility by tying part of the corpses of their victims to their backs, and just 'grabbing a bite' to eat whenever they wanted to on the move, thus obviating the need to stop for resupply for longer periods of time than usual)
Then we developed a process of giving white Kings to the African tribes, so that they would control the area in a (very nominal) alliegiance to our own King [these white Kings were achieved by letting adventurers/criminals loose on the tribes' territories. Over a short time, they would rule them].
We kept the Kings white by providing them with white wives (that didn't prevent them from having a ton of mixed offspring, but the white kids would inherit the right to rule).
The downside to this, of course, is that these 'Kings' knew full well the value of the slaves they took, so they demanded decent payments in goods, rather than trinkets.
That said, Angola did became a major source of slaves for the Americas; so profitable, in fact, that by the XVIIIth century Britain had forced us to hand to them the slave-shipping monopoly.
(Africans were preferred to work in the plantations because they were very resistant - we tried enslaving the amerindians, buy they died after just a couple of years, so importing Africans, which endured hard work in a different continent for lots of years, was preferred).
Needless to say, their strength also made them good choices for combat troops in the expeditions to the interior, so many slaves got their freedom this way. Since most of our slaves were paid (very little), the few that saved and scrimped over their whole lives were also able to buy their freedom back.
Alternatively, they escaped and formed their own self-governing communities, the most famous one in Brasil being the 'Quilombo dos Palmares'.
In the Sahel, the slaves we got from our feitorias there also had to be paid in goods, but they certainly had a better fate as slaves than otherwise (the region was in the process of being overrun by tribes coming from the Sudan, and they ate all those they captured and which they could not put to work as slaves for whatever reason - indeed, the current inhabitants of the Sahel are the descendants of those tribes; the original inhabitants of the area now live in the Caribbean or in the Southern US states).
Since all the slaves we got had already been made slaves by local wars, they were certainly no worse off than if the slave trade to the Americas/partially to Europe hadn't existed.
EDIT: in any way, all this contrasts starkly with the Muslim slave trade in North Africa, most of which consisted of Europeans actually captured by the Barbary pirates along the European coastline, from Cornwall to Sicily - for some reason the expression 'The coast is clear' lives until today.
(our version of the expression is even more telling. It goes: 'No Moors at the coast')
That was a lot of typing just to prove you've finished in second behind Lettuce in the Asshole Race, eggplant.
Quote from: chipwich on October 07, 2012, 08:14:15 AM
Quote from: Razgovory on October 07, 2012, 04:03:55 AM
Several African kingdoms also had the bad habit of ritually sacrificing slaves.
Whom? Where? Other than Carthage.
Dahomey and Ashanti. There was also some really fucked up shit down in Angola and Congo. I don't know how to classify what the Imbangalas did, though human sacrifice is probably fairly close.
Quote from: CountDeMoney on October 07, 2012, 10:27:12 AM
That was a lot of typing just to prove you've finished in second behind Lettuce in the Asshole Race, eggplant.
It's also deceptive. The Portuguese allied with some of the most notorious cannibals of region.
Quote from: CountDeMoney on October 07, 2012, 10:27:12 AM
That was a lot of typing just to prove you've finished in second behind Lettuce in the Asshole Race, eggplant.
Hey now, don't forget yourself. How much of your life did you spend as a slavecatcher?
Quote from: Neil on October 07, 2012, 11:40:18 AM
Quote from: CountDeMoney on October 07, 2012, 10:27:12 AM
That was a lot of typing just to prove you've finished in second behind Lettuce in the Asshole Race, eggplant.
Hey now, don't forget yourself. How much of your life did you spend as a slavecatcher?
It was always more of a "catch and release" thing. Like bass fishing.
I really don't hate black folks, though. Jamal gonna disrupt class and get sent to ISS- is this really so odd to recognize?
I remember a favourite game from my high school was "Big bank, Little Bank." The two players take money out of their pockets, and whoever has more money gets the other person's money. That was the extent of the game, although i'd like to think the ensuing jumping after to school to get your money back was at least a sequel in spirit. There was also "Get like me" where you flip a dollar onto the ground, and the opposing player has to send his flipping to the ground on top of yours and showing the same facing- if it did, he was entitled to both bills, but if he lost, the original player received both. Mind, I saw a fight once because one player posited that playing with $1 bills "wasn't hard" and that his opponent was a little bitch for not shifting to $5.
It was a school in a very good area, a white-flight enclave actually, maintained only through somewhat hard-handed racist policies, but busing was in effect.
Edit: Ah, now I am nostalgic for the rap music of my youth! I am currently listening to the comparatively un-hard strains of David Banner, featuring contributory vocals by Lil'Soft. Life is wonderful! I will miss black people most of all when I live in Japan- it will fall on me to be louder and more unresponsive to social expectations and decency than all those around me. I will make their lives more colourful, as I benefited in my turn.
The black man's cultural environment makes him a poor fit for higher education. His role models don't promote it, and it is seen as a white system. Black folks who succeed too much will cut themselves off, as they cease to be seen as black but have instead chosen to play in the white man's system. It is a deplorable state of affairs, but is it so offensively racist to say it is so?
I'm glad to reminded to scroll past Lettuce posts.
Quote from: Lettow77 on October 07, 2012, 01:51:08 PM
The black man's cultural environment makes him a poor fit for higher education. His role models don't promote it, and it is seen as a white system. Black folks who succeed too much will cut themselves off, as they cease to be seen as black but have instead chosen to play in the white man's system. It is a deplorable state of affairs, but is it so offensively racist to say it is so?
Yes it is, but that's not going to stop you.
This sort of hyper-sensitivity is odd particularly from you, seedy. Akin to Mr. Bennet from Pride and Prejudice, you long ago resigned yourself that who you must live in such distressing proximity to all your life was lost to decency, but have instead resolved to take your amusement from their outbursts and transgressions; where some would be deplored, you are delighted, the hilarity of their existence very being your consolation.
You look upon the black community with condescending endearment and belittling diminutives. This is: SUPER RACIST
What color do you think I like now?
Mew
Teal.
nicomachean ethics
Quote from: Lettow77 on October 07, 2012, 01:06:42 AM
Do you really deny that it is a far better deal to end up born in America than Africa? The descendants of slaves suffered none of the ill effects, but certainly have reaped benefits. That a life as a slave in the South would be better than as an African tribesman isn't a stretch either- it's certainly the choice i'd pick.
Many did not survive the trip, or the journey as a slave, so they have no descendants. Your argument can't really apply.
It's like saying the Black Plague was a blessing in disguise because survivors are immune to certain diseases, wich native americans were not.
I never argued that being enslaved was a favourable outcome, or anything. Note that what I said is that ending up born in America is something to be thankful for when compared to Africa, and that life -as a slave in the South-, which negates the issue of the transatlantic voyage but also ensures you lucked out and got one of the Americas' most genteel slave systems, is better than a life a an African tribesman.
Not a defense of the abhorrent transatlantic slave system or the odious institution of slavery or etc etc etc.
Quote from: Lettow77 on October 08, 2012, 06:34:00 PM
I never argued that being enslaved was a favourable outcome, or anything. Note that what I said is that ending up born in America is something to be thankful for when compared to Africa, and that life -as a slave in the South-, which negates the issue of the transatlantic voyage but also ensures you lucked out and got one of the Americas' most genteel slave systems, is better than a life a an African tribesman.
Not a defense of the abhorrent transatlantic slave system or the odious institution of slavery or etc etc etc.
And Ide already spoke to what that is mornic.
Quote from: Ideologue on October 07, 2012, 01:19:26 AM
Quote from: Lettow77 on October 07, 2012, 01:06:42 AM
Do you really deny that it is a far better deal to end up born in America than Africa?
God knows what the fuck that has to do with anything. Should Irish-Americans be thankful the British starved their forebears out of Ireland? Jewish-Americans be thankful for Krystalnacht? That's retarded.
By doing something horrible some people in past quite accidentally and only barely arguably did some folks a good turn, maybe. THEY'RE THE REAL HEROES.
This without even getting into how the attitudes that led to the slave trade in the first place fed directly into in situ enslavement on the continent later on and turned black Africa into the hellhole we know and usually don't think about today.
Quote from: Lettow77 on October 08, 2012, 06:34:00 PM
I never argued that being enslaved was a favourable outcome, or anything. Note that what I said is that ending up born in America is something to be thankful for when compared to Africa, and that life -as a slave in the South-, which negates the issue of the transatlantic voyage but also ensures you lucked out and got one of the Americas' most genteel slave systems, is better than a life a an African tribesman.
Not a defense of the abhorrent transatlantic slave system or the odious institution of slavery or etc etc etc.
You don't get to call american slavery "genteel", and then throw in a bunch of etceteras about how you're not actually defending it.
Quote from: Syt on October 07, 2012, 04:26:24 AM
The way I recall it was taught to me in school was
- go with trinkets to Africa and trade for slaves
- take slaves to America
- ship Colonial produce to Europe
=> Profit!
Hopefully everyone realized that this was a history lessson, not a how-to course.
Quote from: Barrister on October 09, 2012, 11:49:29 AM
You don't get to call american slavery "genteel", and then throw in a bunch of etceteras about how you're not actually defending it.
Well, it is a matter of relatives, as indicated by the qualifier -most- genteel. It wasnt the Caribbean and it wasn't Brazil, and that's something to be thankful for.