http://worldnews.nbcnews.com/_news/2012/09/19/13957722-state-department-no-secret-plan-to-invade-canada
QuoteThe U.S. and Mexico are not secretly planning to invade Canada, a State Department spokeswoman confirmed to laughter during a daily press briefing.
Spokeswoman Victoria Nuland was taking questions from journalists about its activities Tuesday, which included a meeting between Secretary of State Hillary Clinton and Mexico Foreign Minister Patricia Espinosa.
She was asked about "a signing ceremony" with Espinosa – what was being signed and why was the ceremony not open to the press.
"I think it's an update on Merida, but I will get that for you," Nuland reported, referring to the Merida Initiative to fight organized crime.
The journalist asked, "This isn't some secret thing ... to invade Canada or something like that?"
Amid laughter, Nuland replied: "No, no, no. It's not anything classified."
The U.S. did draw up a secret plan to invade Canada in 1935, codenamed "War Plan Red," some of which was accidentally published by mistake and reported by The New York Times.
A U.S. invasion of Canada also featured in the film, "Canadian Bacon," starring John Candy, Alan Alda and Rhea Perlman, and the movie South Park: Bigger, Longer & Uncut, which included the song "Blame Canada."
There is also a website called www.invadecanada.us, which lists reasons such as connecting the mainland U.S. with Alaska, "they're just a little too proud," and "they stole our basketball teams."
:ph34r:
So where can I look at our non-secret plan to invade Canada?
Like we would even need a plan :rolleyes:
:(
I miss the old days (the 90's) when Canadian magazines (Well, MacLean's at least. I didn't ready Maple Syrup quarterly) wondered if the Bloc tried to split, what would be the American reaction? Will it be military? WHAT WILL THE AMERICANS DO?
Yes, I read Canadian magazines. That was at the library where I was taking my daily bowel movements.
Quote from: Habbaku on September 19, 2012, 04:33:56 PM
So where can I look at our non-secret plan to invade Canada?
http://www.glasnost.de/hist/usa/1935invasion.html
QuoteIn 1934, War Plan Red was amended
to authorize the immediate first use of poison gas against
Canadians and to use strategic bombing to destroy Halifax
if it could not be captured.
Quote from: Ed Anger on September 19, 2012, 04:53:16 PM
I miss the old days (the 90's) when Canadian magazines (Well, MacLean's at least. I didn't ready Maple Syrup quarterly) wondered if the Bloc tried to split, what would be the American reaction? Will it be military? WHAT WILL THE AMERICANS DO?
Yes, I read Canadian magazines. That was at the library where I was taking my daily bowel movements.
I think that our most likely response to Quebec going independent would be to point and laugh. Of course, that's how we usually respond to anything that happens in Canada anyway.
What's the obesity rate in Canada? I favor annexing it to the USA if it brings better-looking women.
Both my trips through Canada were notable for sightings of hotties.
Quote from: Ed Anger on September 19, 2012, 04:53:16 PM
That was at the library where I was taking my daily bowel movements.
:rolleyes: the poors
I wouldn't expect the state department to have a plan to invade canada. I'd expect the defense department to have one. If only to maintain intelligence about where the roads and airports are and where you can drive.
Quote from: Tonitrus on September 19, 2012, 05:06:41 PM
Both my trips through Canada were notable for sightings of hotties.
Same. Montreal airport = JESUS CHRIST :perv:
Quote from: katmai on September 19, 2012, 05:18:25 PM
Quote from: Ed Anger on September 19, 2012, 04:53:16 PM
That was at the library where I was taking my daily bowel movements.
:rolleyes: the poors
My toilet malfunctioned.
Quote from: Caliga on September 19, 2012, 05:25:16 PM
Quote from: Tonitrus on September 19, 2012, 05:06:41 PM
Both my trips through Canada were notable for sightings of hotties.
Same. Montreal airport = JESUS CHRIST :perv:
My google image search of "montreal women" was quite disappointing. :(
Quote from: katmai on September 19, 2012, 04:38:47 PM
Like we would even need a plan :rolleyes:
Exactly what they said in 1812 :P
Quote from: Phillip V on September 19, 2012, 05:30:46 PM
My google image search of "montreal women" was quite disappointing. :(
You probably got a lot of pics of Celine Dion. :x
Try "montreal girls" instead.
Are you at Die Angerschanze or down in Harlan County? :hmm:
Quote from: Caliga on September 19, 2012, 06:29:10 PM
Are you at Die Angerschanze or down in Harlan County? :hmm:
I'm pretending to be poor. I am : the 47%
Quote from: crazy canuck on September 19, 2012, 05:33:11 PM
Quote from: katmai on September 19, 2012, 04:38:47 PM
Like we would even need a plan :rolleyes:
Exactly what they said in 1812 :P
You know what they said in 2012? "...six, seven, eight, nine, ten...".
Quote from: crazy canuck on September 19, 2012, 05:33:11 PM
Quote from: katmai on September 19, 2012, 04:38:47 PM
Like we would even need a plan :rolleyes:
Exactly what they said in 1812 :P
A shitty plan is still a plan. :)
Granted, we didn't anticipate 10,000 redcoats and frostbacks doing their best "Charles V in Rome" impression when they got to D.C..
Sacco di Roma :( :weep:
Quote from: Tonitrus on September 19, 2012, 04:57:15 PM
QuoteIn 1934, War Plan Red was amended
to authorize the immediate first use of poison gas against
Canadians and to use strategic bombing to destroy Halifax
if it could not be captured.
OK, I spooged.
Quote from: Tonitrus on September 19, 2012, 04:57:15 PM
Quote from: Habbaku on September 19, 2012, 04:33:56 PM
So where can I look at our non-secret plan to invade Canada?
http://www.glasnost.de/hist/usa/1935invasion.html
QuoteIn 1934, War Plan Red was amended
to authorize the immediate first use of poison gas against
Canadians and to use strategic bombing to destroy Halifax
if it could not be captured.
Wait a moment. The article in the OP says that the US drew up War plan red 1935. How did they amend the plan in 1934 then?
Something can be amended when it's in production, Raz. Just because it was submitted and adopted in 1935 doesn't mean it was made that year.
From the article :
QuoteThe military planning context of this document is War
Plan Red, which was approved in May 1930 by the Secretary
of War and the Secretary of Navy.
Quote from: Phillip V on September 19, 2012, 05:30:46 PM
Quote from: Caliga on September 19, 2012, 05:25:16 PM
Quote from: Tonitrus on September 19, 2012, 05:06:41 PM
Both my trips through Canada were notable for sightings of hotties.
Same. Montreal airport = JESUS CHRIST :perv:
My google image search of "montreal women" was quite disappointing. :(
Toronto had some lookers when I visited back in 2002.
Next year in Thunder Bay.
I liked Canada's plan to invade the US even more. Blitzkrieg Detroit, and hope the British come real quick.
Quote from: katmai on September 19, 2012, 04:38:47 PM
Like we would even need a plan :rolleyes:
Did you miss our Languish plan/planned meetup to plunder Canada?
Canada should liberate the civilized parts of the US. Screw Jesusland.
The "civilized" parts of the US aren't interested in leaving Jesusland.
Quote from: Fireblade on September 19, 2012, 10:07:03 PM
I liked Canada's plan to invade the US even more. Blitzkrieg Detroit, and hope the British come real quick.
Would anyone even notice if we flattened Detroit?
Most would think it was a civic improvement. :P
Anyway, destroying Detroit would not cause anyone to come. Or even get excited.
Quote from: Malthus on September 20, 2012, 08:05:05 AM
Would anyone even notice if we flattened Detroit?
Most would think it was a civic improvement. :P
Well hell, we've already started bulldozing the place. Just helping you guys out. :P
Or was that Flint? Or both?
They'd just weaponize Celine Dion and burn down the White House. Again.
Quote from: Legbiter on September 20, 2012, 08:42:08 AM
They'd just weaponize Celine Dion and burn down the White House. Again.
Thank god for that, I was worried that she was already pre-positioned WMD in Las Vegas.
Quote from: Peter Wiggin on September 20, 2012, 02:48:55 AM
The "civilized" parts of the US aren't interested in leaving Jesusland.
Sure they are, they just don't realise it yet.
Quote from: Viking on September 20, 2012, 08:44:07 AM
Quote from: Legbiter on September 20, 2012, 08:42:08 AM
They'd just weaponize Celine Dion and burn down the White House. Again.
Thank god for that, I was worried that she was already pre-positioned WMD in Las Vegas.
You miss the point, she is a WMD.
Quote from: Tonitrus on September 19, 2012, 04:57:15 PM
Quote from: Habbaku on September 19, 2012, 04:33:56 PM
So where can I look at our non-secret plan to invade Canada?
http://www.glasnost.de/hist/usa/1935invasion.html
QuoteIn 1934, War Plan Red was amended
to authorize the immediate first use of poison gas against
Canadians and to use strategic bombing to destroy Halifax
if it could not be captured.
That article from Glasnost looks pretty bogus to me. What is attached isn't a war plan at all. It looks more like a mock assessment assigned to some War College students. The fact that it is signed by a major also tends to make me think it isn't a real "war plan."
I am sure that War Plan Red (planning for war against Britain) included actions against Crimson (Canada), but I am also pretty sure that War Plan Red was not officially updated after the late 1920s. It wouldn't surprise me to find that it was used for staff exercises and training in the 1930s.
Quote from: grumbler on September 20, 2012, 12:22:27 PM
Quote from: Tonitrus on September 19, 2012, 04:57:15 PM
Quote from: Habbaku on September 19, 2012, 04:33:56 PM
So where can I look at our non-secret plan to invade Canada?
http://www.glasnost.de/hist/usa/1935invasion.html
QuoteIn 1934, War Plan Red was amended
to authorize the immediate first use of poison gas against
Canadians and to use strategic bombing to destroy Halifax
if it could not be captured.
That article from Glasnost looks pretty bogus to me. What is attached isn't a war plan at all. It looks more like a mock assessment assigned to some War College students. The fact that it is signed by a major also tends to make me think it isn't a real "war plan."
I am sure that War Plan Red (planning for war against Britain) included actions against Crimson (Canada), but I am also pretty sure that War Plan Red was not officially updated after the late 1920s. It wouldn't surprise me to find that it was used for staff exercises and training in the 1930s.
First, when referring to US war plans in the early part of the 20th century, it's usually a mistake to refer to "War Plan (insert color here)" as just one plan. The US color-coded its war plans by the foreign nation in question--War Plan Orange was the plan for war with Japan, War Plan Red was the plan for war with the UK, etc. But in most cases, there wasn't really just 1 plan, there was a series of plans that were changed over time.
As far as War Plan Red not being updated after the 1920's, grumbler is probably right. If it was updated in the 1930's, it was in 1930-32, because FDR suspended planning for war with the British when he took office, so there was certainly no officially adopted War Plan Red from 1935. But I can buy that drawing up such war plans simply as a training exercise continued.
Quote from: dps on September 20, 2012, 01:30:44 PM
First, when referring to US war plans in the early part of the 20th century, it's usually a mistake to refer to "War Plan (insert color here)" as just one plan. The US color-coded its war plans by the foreign nation in question--War Plan Orange was the plan for war with Japan, War Plan Red was the plan for war with the UK, etc. But in most cases, there wasn't really just 1 plan, there was a series of plans that were changed over time.
Actually, it would have been just one plan. The details of the plan would change, and especial the provisos of the variants of the plan would change, but there was only ever the one plan to fight Japan in the period, War Plan Orange. The current practice of having a bunch of related plans (OpPlan 2200 for a general war in the Atlantic, with maybe OpPlan 2211 for a limited war involving only Cuba) wasn't possible in the days before computers could keep track of all the variables.
So, the plan eveolved, as you note, but there was only one plan at any given time.
QuoteAs far as War Plan Red not being updated after the 1920's, grumbler is probably right. If it was updated in the 1930's, it was in 1930-32, because FDR suspended planning for war with the British when he took office, so there was certainly no officially adopted War Plan Red from 1935. But I can buy that drawing up such war plans simply as a training exercise continued.
It would make sense to have the planners-in-training use obsolete plans that could be updated from unclassified sources.
Quote from: grumbler on September 20, 2012, 02:28:42 PM
Quote from: dps on September 20, 2012, 01:30:44 PM
First, when referring to US war plans in the early part of the 20th century, it's usually a mistake to refer to "War Plan (insert color here)" as just one plan. The US color-coded its war plans by the foreign nation in question--War Plan Orange was the plan for war with Japan, War Plan Red was the plan for war with the UK, etc. But in most cases, there wasn't really just 1 plan, there was a series of plans that were changed over time.
Actually, it would have been just one plan. The details of the plan would change, and especial the provisos of the variants of the plan would change, but there was only ever the one plan to fight Japan in the period, War Plan Orange. The current practice of having a bunch of related plans (OpPlan 2200 for a general war in the Atlantic, with maybe OpPlan 2211 for a limited war involving only Cuba) wasn't possible in the days before computers could keep track of all the variables.
So, the plan eveolved, as you note, but there was only one plan at any given time.
Right, there was only one War Plan Orange at any given time, but the point I was trying to make you have to be careful about saying that War Plan Orange called for X, because War Plan Orange may have indeed called for X in 1925, but not in 1935.
Anyway, if the Yanks do invade, we'd just launch batteries of Timbits at them and soon they'd be too fat to move.
Then we would unleash the Celine Dion music. :ph34r:
Quote from: Malthus on September 20, 2012, 03:02:35 PM
Anyway, if the Yanks do invade, we'd just launch batteries of Timbits at them and soon they'd be too fat to move.
I don't think we'd be that excited about Canadian donut holes. :x (At first, I was like wtf is a Timbit / Tim is an American :D)
Quote from: Malthus on September 20, 2012, 03:02:35 PM
Then we would unleash the Celine Dion music. :ph34r:
We'd issue our troops iPod shuffles to guard against that assault. The UN would then strongly condemn the actions of Canada for committing human rights violations.
Quote from: dps on September 20, 2012, 03:00:02 PM
Right, there was only one War Plan Orange at any given time, but the point I was trying to make you have to be careful about saying that War Plan Orange called for X, because War Plan Orange may have indeed called for X in 1925, but not in 1935.
Gotcha. You are quite correct.
Quote from: garbon on September 20, 2012, 03:23:13 PM
Quote from: Malthus on September 20, 2012, 03:02:35 PM
Anyway, if the Yanks do invade, we'd just launch batteries of Timbits at them and soon they'd be too fat to move.
I don't think we'd be that excited about Canadian donut holes. :x (At first, I was like wtf is a Timbit / Tim is an American :D)
They made good, easy snacks while driving long, empty stretches of the Yukon and British Columbia. :ph34r:
(https://languish.org/forums/proxy.php?request=http%3A%2F%2Fimages.wikia.com%2Ffallout%2Fimages%2Fd%2Fd8%2FFo1_Intro_Canadian_Freedom_Fighter.png&hash=e172717797f2441543560f500c2d57177eb385db)
:D
War Plan Red-Orange was a lot more interesting.
Quote from: garbon on September 20, 2012, 03:23:13 PM
I don't think we'd be that excited about Canadian donut holes. :x )
You do not understand the insidious nature of the Timbit.
Alone, they are as you say nothing special. What makes them dangerous to the wasteline is that the are perfectly developed to be cheap, sugary, plentiful, and easy to eat while driving a car.
Canada, being a large country, has lots of long drives ... :ph34r:
Quote(At first, I was like wtf is a Timbit / Tim is an American :D
To add insult to injury, the snack (like the chain) was named after hockey legend Tim Horton ... who died in a fiery car crash. That makes "Timbits", the car snack food, a trifle ... ghoulish. :ph34r:
Quote from: Malthus on September 21, 2012, 10:08:59 AM
Quote from: garbon on September 20, 2012, 03:23:13 PM
I don't think we'd be that excited about Canadian donut holes. :x )
You do not understand the insidious nature of the Timbit.
Alone, they are as you say nothing special. What makes them dangerous to the wasteline is that the are perfectly developed to be cheap, sugary, plentiful, and easy to eat while driving a car.
Canada, being a large country, has lots of long drives ... :ph34r:
Gotcha. Long drives - never heard of such a thing. :P
Quote from: Malthus on September 21, 2012, 10:08:59 AM
Quote(At first, I was like wtf is a Timbit / Tim is an American :D
To add insult to injury, the snack (like the chain) was named after hockey legend Tim Horton ... who died in a fiery car crash. That makes "Timbits", the car snack food, a trifle ... ghoulish. :ph34r:
Yes, most unfortunate.
Quote from: Malthus on September 20, 2012, 03:02:35 PM
Anyway, if the Yanks do invade, we'd just launch batteries of Timbits at them and soon they'd be too fat to move.
Then we would unleash the Celine Dion music. :ph34r:
Soon?
Their lard asses are probably the only thing preventing an invasion of our land of plenty.
Fortunately, we have all the technologies in this list, so we can get there anyway.
(https://languish.org/forums/proxy.php?request=http%3A%2F%2Fwww.links.net%2Fdox%2Fwarez%2Fgames%2Fmicroprose%2Fcivilization%2Fpix%2Fscience1.gif&hash=633be10afcfc4053cac09bf650b55365d9d31db0)
p.s. No scribes allowed.
Reading up on War Plan: Red, it seems there was a Canadian counterpart - Defence Scheme No. 1.
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Defence_Scheme_No._1
Apparently the Canadian plan was for a surprise counter-attack, seizing Seattle, Fargo, Albany adn Maine in the early days, then slowly retreating, thus buying time for the inevitable British re-inforcements. :frusty:
Why the :frusty: BB?
Quote from: Jacob on September 21, 2012, 05:40:22 PM
Why the :frusty: BB?
There wasn't going to be any British reinforcements.
The Timbits as a distraction won't work. Toss Cinnabons instead.
Quote from: Jacob on September 21, 2012, 05:40:22 PM
Why the :frusty: BB?
They never co-ordinated with the Brits, who figured that Canada was indefensible and weren't going to send re-inforcements. Plus the general ludicrousness of the plan - sure just go ahead and seize Seattle, Albany and the like. I'm sure that'll pose no problem whatsoever.
Quote from: Barrister on September 21, 2012, 11:49:35 AM
Reading up on War Plan: Red, it seems there was a Canadian counterpart - Defence Scheme No. 1.
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Defence_Scheme_No._1
Apparently the Canadian plan was for a surprise counter-attack, seizing Seattle, Fargo, Albany adn Maine in the early days, then slowly retreating, thus buying time for the inevitable British re-inforcements. :frusty:
Well, that was one Canadian's plan, anyway. It was never, as far as I can tell, actually adopted, nor were the forces it called for ever created.
In that sense, it was a lot like the claims for "War Plan Red." The post-1930 elements of WPR appear to be just staff exercises in generic war planning, without any funding or resources.
It all makes for some fun poking about, like the WaPo article the gullible Wikipedia authors appear to take quite seriously.
Now, if you go back to the early 1920s, you will see some serious US planning for war against Great Britain 9and, presumably, Canada). That was all driven by a small but very influential clique in the US navy, who were convinced that the US would clash with a declining British Empire, and who were responsible for the absurd US Navy building plans ("A Navy Second to None") in the post-WW1 era. I've never found any evidence that the US Army suffered from this delusion, and in fact am convinced that the influence wielded by the Anglophobes in the US Navy was tolerated mostly because it allowed the Navy to justify a building program they could justify in no other way.
I haven't seen anything authoritative on US plans for that period. It is possible that US staff training was not yet up to the task of drafting such a thing. The mobilization planning for these War Plans was pretty daunting.
And Grumbler knows. He was in the US Navy in early 1920's. He knew these people.
Quote from: grumbler on September 21, 2012, 10:04:16 PM
Quote from: Barrister on September 21, 2012, 11:49:35 AM
Reading up on War Plan: Red, it seems there was a Canadian counterpart - Defence Scheme No. 1.
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Defence_Scheme_No._1
Apparently the Canadian plan was for a surprise counter-attack, seizing Seattle, Fargo, Albany adn Maine in the early days, then slowly retreating, thus buying time for the inevitable British re-inforcements. :frusty:
Well, that was one Canadian's plan, anyway. It was never, as far as I can tell, actually adopted, nor were the forces it called for ever created.
In that sense, it was a lot like the claims for "War Plan Red." The post-1930 elements of WPR appear to be just staff exercises in generic war planning, without any funding or resources.
Well the wiki article wasn't very useful, but I do have a copy of the first source listed, Burton's
Marching As To War. I don't know about "officially adopted, but it was an official government plan, and developed with support of one of the highest ranking Staff Officers. Resources? No, not really - and the whole thing was scrapped well before War Plan Red was officially scrapped in the US.
But an amusing little historical anecdote anyways.