http://edition.cnn.com/2012/08/13/justice/texas-am-shooting/index.html?hpt=us_c2
QuoteMultiple people shot near Texas A&M University
(CNN) -- Police took a man into custody Monday after "multiple people" were shot near Texas A&M University, a police official said.
Several law enforcement officers were among the people shot, Rhonda Seaton of the College Station Police Department told CNN. She didn't have information on how many people were shot or their conditions.
She said a person identified as the gunman was in custody. The shooting happened about one block from campus, Seaton said.
Officer Jon Agnew with the Bryan Police Department said at least one civilian had been injured. Bryan is adjacent to College Station.
Police are still at the scene making "sure there aren't multiple suspects," Officer Jason James of the Bryan Police Department said.
James said the first call was that an officer was down and shots had been fired.
After the initial report, the university warned people to stay away from the intersection of Welborn Road and George Bush Drive as well as part of Fidelity Drive in College Station, Texas.
QuoteActive Shooter Event
:lol: I see what you did there.
Quote from: Syt on August 13, 2012, 03:04:28 PM
Police took a man into custody Monday after "multiple people" were shot near Texas A&M University, a police official said.
False thread title. <_<
Quote from: Admiral Yi on August 13, 2012, 03:06:47 PM
Quote from: Syt on August 13, 2012, 03:04:28 PM
Police took a man into custody Monday after "multiple people" were shot near Texas A&M University, a police official said.
False thread title. <_<
"Shooter Formerly Known To Be Active Event" is too unwieldy.
gun control anybody?
Quote from: Syt on August 13, 2012, 03:08:02 PM
Quote from: Admiral Yi on August 13, 2012, 03:06:47 PM
Quote from: Syt on August 13, 2012, 03:04:28 PM
Police took a man into custody Monday after "multiple people" were shot near Texas A&M University, a police official said.
False thread title. <_<
"Shooter Formerly Known To Be Active Event" is too unwieldy.
Could have just been something to the effect that police caught a suspect in multiple shootings near A&M.
Quote from: Viking on August 13, 2012, 03:24:48 PM
gun control anybody?
Mexico has gun control. Look how much good it's doing them. :P
Quote from: Peter Wiggin on August 13, 2012, 03:36:16 PM
Quote from: Viking on August 13, 2012, 03:24:48 PM
gun control anybody?
Mexico has gun control. Look how much good it's doing them. :P
So does sweden, but not somalia. Mexico's problem is it's lack of law enforcement.
Oh my. From another thread about this:
QuoteHe hit 4 open men so that rules out Stephen McGee.
Reorts of two killed:
http://m.bbc.co.uk/news/world-us-canada-19250806 (http://m.bbc.co.uk/news/world-us-canada-19250806)
Quote from: Viking on August 13, 2012, 03:43:27 PM
So does sweden, but not somalia. Mexico's problem is it's lack of law enforcement.
Texas is full of Mexicans and Texans. Beating Somalia isn't a trivial exercise for them. :D
On the subject of 'shooter motivation' this is just bizarre:
Quote
Batman Massacre: WHY and HOW and WHO
By Grace Powers, www.helpfreetheearth.com
http://educate-yourself.org/cn/powersbatmanmassacre28jul12.shtml
July 28, 2012
Explosive Expose of the Batman Massacre: WHY, HOW and WHO by Grace Powers (July 311, 2012)
http://www.helpfreetheearth.com/news617_batmanwhohow.html
THE MOTIVES
Robert Holmes, the shooting suspect's father, is a senior lead scientist with FICO, the American credit score company. He was scheduled to testify in the next few weeks before a US Senate panel that is investigating the largest bank fraud scandal in world history. This banking fraud threatens to destabilize and destroy the Western banking system.
Robert Holmes not only uncovered the true intent of the massive LIBOR banking fraud, but his "predictive algorithm model" also traced the trillions of "hidden"dollars to the exact bank accounts of the elite classes who stole it. In other words, Robert Holmes could NAME NAMES! Those names WOULD AWAKEN THE WORLD to the depth of government and corporate corruption which could include members of Congress, Wall Street, Federal Reserve and EU executives and could even include US Presidential candidates and the British Royal family.
The motives for the massacre are:
........
:blink:
Rest of 'article' here:
http://educate-yourself.org/cn/powersbatmanmassacre28jul12.shtml (http://educate-yourself.org/cn/powersbatmanmassacre28jul12.shtml)
What the hell are you surfing mongers? :P
I'm not sure I get why we should find something that has links to helpfreeearth.com and is educate-yourself.org as bizarre. In its elements, I'm sure such is perfectly normal. :D
Quote from: MadImmortalMan on August 13, 2012, 04:03:55 PM
What the hell are you surfing mongers? :P
No, any 'friend' of a 'friend' facebook that posts that sort of crap, gets an automatic block. :)
Quote from: mongers on August 13, 2012, 04:07:19 PM
Quote from: MadImmortalMan on August 13, 2012, 04:03:55 PM
What the hell are you surfing mongers? :P
No, any 'friend' of a 'friend' facebook that posts that sort of crap, gets an automatic block. :)
Too bad we no longer have automatic block. :P
Quote from: Peter Wiggin on August 13, 2012, 03:53:23 PM
Quote from: Viking on August 13, 2012, 03:43:27 PM
So does sweden, but not somalia. Mexico's problem is it's lack of law enforcement.
Texas is full of Mexicans and Texans. Beating Somalia isn't a trivial exercise for them. :D
A freidman anecdote has Friedman talking to a swedish official who claims that in sweden unemployment is 0%, friedman's response was in america unemployment among swedes is 0%. The thing is that gun violence correlates with gun control when comparing swedes and swedish-americans.
Quote from: mongers on August 13, 2012, 04:00:45 PM
On the subject of 'shooter motivation' this is just bizarre:
Quote
Batman Massacre: WHY and HOW and WHO
Explosive Expose of the Batman Massacre: WHY, HOW and WHO by Grace Powers (July 311, 2012)
:blink:
Sorcha Faal?
I'm glad Viking is in this thread to waste our time. :)
Sounds like the guy was being served and eviction notice and opened up with semi auto weapons. His castle was not to be easily assaulted.
Quote from: garbon on August 13, 2012, 04:38:44 PM
I'm glad Viking is in this thread to waste our time. :)
I'm just here to challenge your pre-conceptions of religion = good, guns = good americans have.
Quote from: MadBurgerMaker on August 13, 2012, 03:46:40 PM
Oh my. From another thread about this:
QuoteHe hit 4 open men so that rules out Stephen McGee.
:XD:
Quote from: Viking on August 13, 2012, 04:45:12 PM
Quote from: garbon on August 13, 2012, 04:38:44 PM
I'm glad Viking is in this thread to waste our time. :)
I'm just here to challenge your pre-conceptions of religion = good, guns = good americans have.
Waste my time as I don't feel that way and any amount of you yapping about gun control isn't going to change the situation on the ground.
I think the gun issue may actually have been the first issue that was argued so many times on Languish such that any future arguments are pointless and stupid. I think it took about 8 years to get to that point.
We'd have to get to the point where active shooter events are something way more common than the extreme outliers they are today before people will be willing to make any significant change. As it stands, it just not worth the cost.
Quote from: MadImmortalMan on August 13, 2012, 04:55:32 PM
We'd have to get to the point where active shooter events are something way more common than the extreme outliers they are today before people will be willing to make any significant change. As it stands, it just not worth the cost.
3 in as many weeks?
I fall on the "anti gun control" side of things in Canada, but I do think you guys could do with a little bit more gun control. Even something as simple as a restriction on magazine size might help a bit.
er, I'm pretty sure we have multiple events that 'big' on a daily basis in the US. :hmm:
Beeb's objection is that it's not economically deprived people of color getting whacked, and so he's concerned.
Quote from: Scipio on August 13, 2012, 06:05:06 PM
Beeb's objection is that it's not economically deprived people of color getting whacked, and so he's concerned.
:angry:
Or really - oh nothing to see then. :D
Quote from: Viking on August 13, 2012, 03:24:48 PM
gun control anybody?
And have Americans scared to leave their houses if they dont have their gun. Are you crazy?
Quote from: crazy canuckAnd have Americans scared to leave their houses if they dont have their gun. Are you crazy?
With all that butthurt, I'm starting to wonder if you're going to end up killing yourself over that soccer game.
E: Oh, re this thing: Looks like three people dead: The constable (who was indeed serving an eviction notice), an apparently random 65 year old civilian, and the shooter (who is not active anymore :P).
Every night, he dreams of Abby Wambach kicking him in the groin.
Quote from: MadBurgerMaker on August 13, 2012, 08:36:46 PM
Quote from: crazy canuckAnd have Americans scared to leave their houses if they dont have their gun. Are you crazy?
With all that butthurt, I'm starting to wonder if you're going to end up killing yourself over that soccer game.
Pretty sensitive about some American idiot who cant seem to function without having a gun. I suppose you identify pretty strongly with that.
Quote from: crazy canuck on August 13, 2012, 09:00:41 PM
Pretty sensitive about some American idiot who cant seem to function without having a gun. I suppose you identify pretty strongly with that.
what
Quote from: MadBurgerMaker on August 13, 2012, 09:03:23 PM
Quote from: crazy canuck on August 13, 2012, 09:00:41 PM
Pretty sensitive about some American idiot who cant seem to function without having a gun. I suppose you identify pretty strongly with that.
what
Too many words for you?
Quote from: crazy canuck on August 13, 2012, 09:17:00 PM
Too many words for you?
Let me quote that again:
QuotePretty sensitive about some American idiot who cant seem to function without having a gun.
This is the thread about a guy in College Station who freaked out and shot some people from inside a house he was renting because they were evicting him. This is not the thread about the guy who got nervous in Canada because he didn't have a gun with him.
QuoteI suppose you identify pretty strongly with that.
I don't have a CHL, so I seem to be all good without a gun. Does it freak you out that not every American carries a gun? Does it just blow your mind? You seem dumb enough that it might.
E: Oh. And get over the women's soccer game, you ridiculous baby.
QuoteThe other day, I met a bear,
A great big bear, Oh way out there.
Chorus:
(Same lines in unison)
He looked at me, I looked at him,
He sized up me, I sized up him.
He said to me, "Why don't you run?
I see you ain't, Got any gun."
I wasn't sure which of the four gun threads to put this into, but I decided on this one.
Partners In Arms (http://gameological.com/2012/08/partners-in-arms/)
QuoteEver since a graduate student claiming to be The Joker allegedly shot dozens of moviegoers at a midnight screening of The Dark Knight Rises, the debate about gun control has been co-opted by those attempting to connect or disconnect the dots between the fiction of costumed comic book characters gunning for each other in Christopher Nolan's violent opus and the very real slaughter that left 12 people dead. Video games have been mentioned mostly by proxy in the conversation (the movie theater gunman was reportedly addicted to Guitar Hero, not Call Of Duty), but this might also be an opportune moment for the industry to reexamine its long love affair with the modern military shooter and attempts to blur the line between violent video game fantasy and reality.
Take, for instance, the rather overt case of Electronic Arts' Medal Of Honor: Warfighter. Companies often toss around buzzwords like "immersion" or "authenticity" to promote their video games, but EA's claim that they'll "put you directly in the boots of the soldier" for the upcoming sequel to Medal Of Honor doesn't just smack of hacky marketing speak. First, there's the promise of ripped-from-the-headlines settings and characters in Warfighter—you'll be battling the Islamic separatist group Abu Sayyaf and the Somalia-based cell of al-Qaeda in "real-life hotspots" around the world. But EA takes the realism factor further by allowing players to test out a photorealistic replica of, for example, the TAC-300 sniper rifle. Like the way the gun drops terrorists or racks up headshots in multiplayer? Feel free to visit Warfighter's official website and click on a sponsored link that will take you to McMillan, the manufacturer of the gun. There you may purchase a real-life TAC-300 to your own specification (night-vision kit is optional!) and have it shipped to your local federally licensed gun dealer for pickup.
There are a host of other guns, knives, scopes, and weapon accessory companies listed as "partners" on the website for Warfighter. (There are 11 listed at time of writing, and EA says they're revealing a new partner each week.) In October, you'll be able to purchase a limited edition Medal Of Honor: Warfighter tomahawk for $75 from SOG Knives that features "an extended cutting head." It's certainly a bit more intense than, say, the pewter dragon from the Skyrim Collector's Edition.
In EA's defense, the company has created Project Honor, a program that promises to donate money from Medal Of Honor-themed merchandise sold in their partners' respective stores to charities like the Navy SEAL Foundation and the Special Operations Warrior Foundation. Honoring the military is a worthy cause, but EA is still doing so by promoting weapons that lead to 10,000 homicides on average a year in the United States.
To be honest, military shooters crossed into ethically murky waters even before Medal Of Honor's blatant gun advertising. That's weird for me to write because I've always toed the libertarian line on this issue. To me, guns and video games are irrevocably intermeshed like the electronic guitar and rock music. I've personally killed hundreds of thousands of people in games (and have the Xbox achievements to prove it) with rifles, pistols, missile launchers, machetes, chainsaws, and gravity guns. I've rarely batted an eyelash in response to all of the virtual brutality. But I was also lucky enough to grow up in an era when dissociating the onscreen violence from anything in real life was easy. I was weaned on 8-bit shooters like Ikari Warriors and Contra—both of which portray military operations about as accurately as Super Mario Bros. demonstrates life as a plumber in Brooklyn. In those early games, bullets pop slowly out of pistols like slow-moving golf balls, and enemies don't "die" as much as they flash briefly before vanishing.
The technological sophistication of military shooters has increased over the years to the point where the guns look awfully close to weapons used in real battlefields and—"uncanny valley" issues aside—enemy soldiers resemble real human beings. When we shoot them, they don't flicker out of existence. They scream and bleed and die. Of course, the realism that military shooters portray tends to be an aesthetic one. The shooting galleries of Medal Of Honor and Call Of Duty aren't much like real soldiering—as pointed out by the Onion parody "Ultra-Realistic Modern Warfare Game Features Awaiting Orders, Repairing Trucks."
But try telling that to my 13-year-old nephew, who got kicked out of school after getting caught with a semi-automatic BB gun in his backpack. It's not a coincidence that the gun resembles his favorite weapon from Modern Warfare 3. Call Of Duty has fostered an obsession with all things guns and military for him. He can rattle off obscure details about the clip size and firing range of assault rifles, and he says he wants to serve as a Navy SEAL after graduating high school. Sure, his parents shouldn't have let him start playing M-rated military shooters at age 10, but listening to all of the prepubescent squeals during a usual multiplayer match, I know he's not the exception to the rule.
I can't say for certain whether or not my nephew would have brought a gun to school without the role of military video games, nor can I say if gun sales will increase because of Medal Of Honor: Warfighter. But if we want the vicarious thrills of violent video games to remain morally justifiable, we need to protect the fourth wall between the first-person shooter and real life. EA's willingness to make a connection between a video game gun and an actual firearm is the strongest evidence yet that we've already let the wall crumble too much.
Quote from: Barrister on August 13, 2012, 05:04:38 PM
I fall on the "anti gun control" side of things in Canada, but I do think you guys could do with a little bit more gun control. Even something as simple as a restriction on magazine size might help a bit.
Not really. The vast majority, over 90%, of gun deaths in the US are done by Handguns. The Sikh Temple was done with a hand gun for example. Since banning hand guns will never happen I am not really sure what sort of gun control would actually make a difference.
Quote from: Valmy on August 14, 2012, 01:52:01 PM
Quote from: Barrister on August 13, 2012, 05:04:38 PM
I fall on the "anti gun control" side of things in Canada, but I do think you guys could do with a little bit more gun control. Even something as simple as a restriction on magazine size might help a bit.
Not really. The vast majority, over 90%, of gun deaths in the US are done by Handguns. The Sikh Temple was done with a hand gun for example. Since banning hand guns will never happen I am not really sure what sort of gun control would actually make a difference.
Well what about my suggestion - limit magazine size to 5-6 bullets for hand guns. Make possession of a larger size illegal, but with a lengthy grace period and refund/voucher when you turn in an over-size magazine. Hard to go on a shooting rampage if you need to constantly reload - but it still gives you the firepower you need in self-defence.
And while the Sikh Temple was hand guns, lots of other ASEs are from semi-automatic rifles.
go old school. cut off the hands of anyone involved in gun crimes. no hands no guns.
trigger fingers would probably work better.
Quote from: Barrister on August 14, 2012, 02:13:03 PM
Well what about my suggestion - limit magazine size to 5-6 bullets for hand guns. Make possession of a larger size illegal, but with a lengthy grace period and refund/voucher when you turn in an over-size magazine. Hard to go on a shooting rampage if you need to constantly reload - but it still gives you the firepower you need in self-defence.
Reloading a semi auto handgun isn't particularly inconvenient. All it means is asshole psycho killer guy would need to carry more magazines in his backpack.
Quote from: Barrister on August 14, 2012, 02:13:03 PM
Well what about my suggestion - limit magazine size to 5-6 bullets for hand guns.
Yeah...we usually call those "revolvers" down here.
Quote from: MadBurgerMaker on August 14, 2012, 02:31:59 PM
Quote from: Barrister on August 14, 2012, 02:13:03 PM
Well what about my suggestion - limit magazine size to 5-6 bullets for hand guns. Make possession of a larger size illegal, but with a lengthy grace period and refund/voucher when you turn in an over-size magazine. Hard to go on a shooting rampage if you need to constantly reload - but it still gives you the firepower you need in self-defence.
Reloading a semi auto handgun isn't particularly inconvenient. All it means is asshole psycho killer guy would need to carry more magazines in his backpack.
Every little bit helps.
Quote from: CountDeMoney on August 14, 2012, 02:34:59 PM
Quote from: Barrister on August 14, 2012, 02:13:03 PM
Well what about my suggestion - limit magazine size to 5-6 bullets for hand guns.
Yeah...we usually call those "revolvers" down here.
Hay seedy:
I talked to my dad about that Colt Python. As I predicted, no way he is selling it.
Quote from: Barrister on August 14, 2012, 02:43:24 PM
Every little bit helps.
Not enough to (try to) make everything else illegal and all shit that comes with that. Reloading a semi auto doesn't take much time at all, man. Just push a button, the mag falls out, put a new one in, push another button/latch, and it's good to go. It's not a revolver.
Quote from: Ed Anger on August 14, 2012, 02:50:37 PM
I talked to my dad about that Colt Python. As I predicted, no way he is selling it.
Of course not. It's an heirloom now.
Quote from: MadBurgerMaker on August 14, 2012, 02:52:49 PM
Quote from: Barrister on August 14, 2012, 02:43:24 PM
Every little bit helps.
Not enough to (try to) make everything else illegal and all shit that comes with that. Reloading a semi auto doesn't take much time at all, man. Just push a button, the mag falls out, put a new one in, push another button/latch, and it's good to go. It's not a revolver.
I believe the Tuscon shooter was stopped in the midst of reloading a semi-automatic pistol. So it's enough time for some one to run up and subdue the shooter. I suppose that makes the difference of a guy shooting 33 bullets and a guy shooting six.
Quote from: Razgovory on August 14, 2012, 03:00:54 PM
Quote from: MadBurgerMaker on August 14, 2012, 02:52:49 PM
Quote from: Barrister on August 14, 2012, 02:43:24 PM
Every little bit helps.
Not enough to (try to) make everything else illegal and all shit that comes with that. Reloading a semi auto doesn't take much time at all, man. Just push a button, the mag falls out, put a new one in, push another button/latch, and it's good to go. It's not a revolver.
I believe the Tuscon shooter was stopped in the midst of reloading a semi-automatic pistol. So it's enough time for some one to run up and subdue the shooter. I suppose that makes the difference of a guy shooting 33 bullets and a guy shooting six.
Why do you want to restrict peoples' FREEDOM to be shot?
Quote from: Razgovory on August 14, 2012, 03:00:54 PM
Quote from: MadBurgerMaker on August 14, 2012, 02:52:49 PM
Quote from: Barrister on August 14, 2012, 02:43:24 PM
Every little bit helps.
Not enough to (try to) make everything else illegal and all shit that comes with that. Reloading a semi auto doesn't take much time at all, man. Just push a button, the mag falls out, put a new one in, push another button/latch, and it's good to go. It's not a revolver.
I believe the Tuscon shooter was stopped in the midst of reloading a semi-automatic pistol. So it's enough time for some one to run up and subdue the shooter. I suppose that makes the difference of a guy shooting 33 bullets and a guy shooting six.
I believe Raz makes a valid point here.
Quote from: Razgovory on August 14, 2012, 03:00:54 PM
I believe the Tuscon shooter was stopped in the midst of reloading a semi-automatic pistol. So it's enough time for some one to run up and subdue the shooter. I suppose that makes the difference of a guy shooting 33 bullets and a guy shooting six.
Yeah, he dropped his bigass unwieldy magazine.
The VA Tech asshole, who was using regular magazines that aren't stupid sized, reloaded several times and killed a shitload more people. I imagine the movie theater guy reloaded several times too, although I don't know much about that. He might have been using crazy large mags too. If so, he apparently wasn't as clumsy as Tuscon guy.
E: Beeb, what the Tuscon guy was using, afaik:
(https://languish.org/forums/proxy.php?request=http%3A%2F%2F1.bp.blogspot.com%2F_ObAHTdIfi8s%2FTTjtE7lLfDI%2FAAAAAAAABDA%2F5der7PVJD6M%2Fs320%2Fglock_19_w_33_round_mag.JPG&hash=9b17210bbc65a7b900afb37fd1f0b8d1bd1c8043)
The thing probably caught on something in his pocket or something.
Yeah, most people aren't combat specialists. They aren't used to loading a weapon in a combat situation. A crazy guy with a pistol isn't going to be able to reliably reload as fast as a seasoned soldier.
Quote from: MadBurgerMaker on August 14, 2012, 03:05:46 PM
Quote from: Razgovory on August 14, 2012, 03:00:54 PM
I believe the Tuscon shooter was stopped in the midst of reloading a semi-automatic pistol. So it's enough time for some one to run up and subdue the shooter. I suppose that makes the difference of a guy shooting 33 bullets and a guy shooting six.
Yeah, he dropped his bigass unwieldy magazine.
The VA Tech asshole, who was using regular magazines that aren't stupid sized, reloaded several times and killed a shitload more people. I imagine the movie theater guy reloaded several times too, although I don't know much about that. He might have been using crazy large mags too. If so, he apparently wasn't as clumsy as Tuscon guy.
E: Beeb, what the Tuscon guy was using, afaik:
(https://languish.org/forums/proxy.php?request=http%3A%2F%2F1.bp.blogspot.com%2F_ObAHTdIfi8s%2FTTjtE7lLfDI%2FAAAAAAAABDA%2F5der7PVJD6M%2Fs320%2Fglock_19_w_33_round_mag.JPG&hash=9b17210bbc65a7b900afb37fd1f0b8d1bd1c8043)
The thing probably caught on something in his pocket or something.
Wasn't the Batman shooter stopped once his gun jammed and he couldn't figure out how to unjam it?
Quote from: Razgovory on August 14, 2012, 03:14:47 PM
Yeah, most people aren't combat specialists. They aren't used to loading a weapon in a combat situation. A crazy guy with a pistol isn't going to be able to reliably reload as fast as a seasoned soldier.
No one said anything about combat specialists or reloading as fast as a seasoned soldier.
Quote from: Barrister on August 14, 2012, 03:16:34 PM
Wasn't the Batman shooter stopped once his gun jammed and he couldn't figure out how to unjam it?
Could be. Thank goodness for gun malfunctions. You know, it could have been because of a feed problem with a bigass mag like that.
E: Hey here you go Beeb. From Wiki:
QuoteHe also fired a Smith & Wesson M&P15[11] semi-automatic rifle with a 100-round drum magazine, which malfunctioned after reportedly firing fewer than 30 rounds.
Drum magazine. It didn't stop then though. Says he pulled out a Glock 22 and started shooting with that. Cops found 3 mags for it.
I don't know what you're trying to say - that big magazines save lives because killers are more likely to use them and get them caught up on something?
Nobody is saying any little change will magically make sure ASEs will never happen. BUt I like the phrase "don't let perfect be the enemy of good". If a little change will help, then implement it.
Quote from: Barrister on August 14, 2012, 03:22:03 PM
I don't know what you're trying to say - that big magazines save lives because killers are more likely to use them and get them caught up on something?
That the magazine size doesn't matter for this stuff. If a dude wants to kill a bunch of people, 6 round magazines aren't going to stop him at all. They honestly probably wouldn't even slow him down much. If you made him use a revolver and speedloaders (E: those are pretty quick too, although I've only messed around with them a couple times at the range), sure, but magazines are pretty tard proof.
But, yeah, regular magazines are probably much less prone to feed problems and are way easier to handle. That's definitely not something to rely on though.
QuoteNobody is saying any little change will magically make sure ASEs will never happen. BUt I like the phrase "don't let perfect be the enemy of good". If a little change will help, then implement it.
It's not a little change.
Quote from: MadBurgerMaker on August 14, 2012, 03:32:35 PM
Quote from: Barrister on August 14, 2012, 03:22:03 PM
I don't know what you're trying to say - that big magazines save lives because killers are more likely to use them and get them caught up on something?
That the magazine size doesn't matter for this stuff. If a dude wants to kill a bunch of people, 6 round magazines aren't going to stop him at all. They honestly probably wouldn't even slow him down much. If you made him use a revolver and speedloaders (E: those are pretty quick too, although I've only messed around with them a couple times at the range), sure, but magazines are pretty tard proof.
Although, yeah, regular magazines are probably much less prone to feed problems, that's not something to rely on.
QuoteNobody is saying any little change will magically make sure ASEs will never happen. BUt I like the phrase "don't let perfect be the enemy of good". If a little change will help, then implement it.
It's not a little change.
So you don't see any value in making a mass murderer reload every 6 shots instead of every 100. :hmm:
Quote from: sbr on August 14, 2012, 03:36:28 PM
So you don't see any value in making a mass murderer reload every 6 shots instead of every 100. :hmm:
:lol: I'm thinking more of the one that would actually affect most everyone: Every 10, 12, 15 shots (e: 7 too...don't forget the 1911s). Not every 100 (that wasn't a handgun btw). If all Beeb is saying is outlaw the McLarge Huge drum mags and shit, well that's not a big deal and might actually be something you could do...relatively...painlessly. But he said everything over 5 or 6 rounds, which covers...well damn that covers A LOT of guns and magazines.
Quote from: MadBurgerMaker on August 14, 2012, 03:17:28 PM
Quote from: Razgovory on August 14, 2012, 03:14:47 PM
Yeah, most people aren't combat specialists. They aren't used to loading a weapon in a combat situation. A crazy guy with a pistol isn't going to be able to reliably reload as fast as a seasoned soldier.
No one said anything about combat specialists or reloading as fast as a seasoned soldier.
I was under the impression you were in the military. Many of these crazy shooter guys were not. i.e. what you are used to and find easy may not be easy for some loony.
Quote from: Razgovory on August 14, 2012, 03:47:20 PM
I was under the impression you were in the military. Many of these crazy shooter guys were not. i.e. what you are used to and find easy may not be easy for some loony.
Shit man, I'm not Siege. I was in the Navy. The only reason I even got to play with a handgun every once in a while was because we were to be issued the things in case our airplane got shot down. Most people in the Navy don't even get that much, because there's not really a reason for it. I've gotten more experience with one after I left than I ever did while I was in.
E: Basically, they trained us enough with them so that they could be reasonably sure we wouldn't shoot ourselves with them. :lol: I'm exaggerating a bit, but not by a whole lot. There was none of that crazy speedloading stuff you can see on Youtube. The range guy would probably shoot you if you tried some of that shit.
Quote from: Barrister on August 14, 2012, 02:13:03 PM
Well what about my suggestion - limit magazine size to 5-6 bullets for hand guns. Make possession of a larger size illegal, but with a lengthy grace period and refund/voucher when you turn in an over-size magazine. Hard to go on a shooting rampage if you need to constantly reload - but it still gives you the firepower you need in self-defence.
And while the Sikh Temple was hand guns, lots of other ASEs are from semi-automatic rifles.
Vastly more people are killed by knives every year in the US than by all non-handgun classes of fire arms combined. I am just questioning the strategy of engaging in what would almost certainly be a long, expensive, and sure to fail political effort that in the end will not have that big of an impact on saving lives. Besides gun violence has been declining for years.
Quote from: Valmy on August 15, 2012, 12:04:33 PM
Quote from: Barrister on August 14, 2012, 02:13:03 PM
Well what about my suggestion - limit magazine size to 5-6 bullets for hand guns. Make possession of a larger size illegal, but with a lengthy grace period and refund/voucher when you turn in an over-size magazine. Hard to go on a shooting rampage if you need to constantly reload - but it still gives you the firepower you need in self-defence.
And while the Sikh Temple was hand guns, lots of other ASEs are from semi-automatic rifles.
Vastly more people are killed by knives every year in the US than by all non-handgun classes of fire arms combined. I am just questioning the strategy of engaging in what would almost certainly be a long, expensive, and sure to fail political effort that in the end will not have that big of an impact on saving lives.
The problem with that argument is that it ignores the fact that while there are non-murderous legitimate purposes for using a knife, there aren't any for non-handgun firearms.
More people die each year in car crashes than from heroin overdose - but that's not a really sensible argument why heroin should be legal.
Quote from: Martinus on August 15, 2012, 12:06:20 PM
Quote from: Valmy on August 15, 2012, 12:04:33 PM
Quote from: Barrister on August 14, 2012, 02:13:03 PM
Well what about my suggestion - limit magazine size to 5-6 bullets for hand guns. Make possession of a larger size illegal, but with a lengthy grace period and refund/voucher when you turn in an over-size magazine. Hard to go on a shooting rampage if you need to constantly reload - but it still gives you the firepower you need in self-defence.
And while the Sikh Temple was hand guns, lots of other ASEs are from semi-automatic rifles.
Vastly more people are killed by knives every year in the US than by all non-handgun classes of fire arms combined. I am just questioning the strategy of engaging in what would almost certainly be a long, expensive, and sure to fail political effort that in the end will not have that big of an impact on saving lives.
The problem with that argument is that it ignores the fact that while there are non-murderous legitimate purposes for using a knife, there aren't any for non-handgun firearms.
More people die each year in car crashes than from heroin overdose - but that's not a really sensible argument why heroin should be legal.
Is hunting murder?
Quote from: garbon on August 15, 2012, 12:12:03 PM
Quote from: Martinus on August 15, 2012, 12:06:20 PM
Quote from: Valmy on August 15, 2012, 12:04:33 PM
Quote from: Barrister on August 14, 2012, 02:13:03 PM
Well what about my suggestion - limit magazine size to 5-6 bullets for hand guns. Make possession of a larger size illegal, but with a lengthy grace period and refund/voucher when you turn in an over-size magazine. Hard to go on a shooting rampage if you need to constantly reload - but it still gives you the firepower you need in self-defence.
And while the Sikh Temple was hand guns, lots of other ASEs are from semi-automatic rifles.
Vastly more people are killed by knives every year in the US than by all non-handgun classes of fire arms combined. I am just questioning the strategy of engaging in what would almost certainly be a long, expensive, and sure to fail political effort that in the end will not have that big of an impact on saving lives.
The problem with that argument is that it ignores the fact that while there are non-murderous legitimate purposes for using a knife, there aren't any for non-handgun firearms.
More people die each year in car crashes than from heroin overdose - but that's not a really sensible argument why heroin should be legal.
Is hunting murder?
It's like masturbating at cartoon child porn.
On one hand, it is not strictly speaking an evil activity, but the people who engage in it should be watched quite closely.
Quote from: Martinus on August 15, 2012, 12:06:20 PM
Quote from: Valmy on August 15, 2012, 12:04:33 PM
Quote from: Barrister on August 14, 2012, 02:13:03 PM
Well what about my suggestion - limit magazine size to 5-6 bullets for hand guns. Make possession of a larger size illegal, but with a lengthy grace period and refund/voucher when you turn in an over-size magazine. Hard to go on a shooting rampage if you need to constantly reload - but it still gives you the firepower you need in self-defence.
And while the Sikh Temple was hand guns, lots of other ASEs are from semi-automatic rifles.
Vastly more people are killed by knives every year in the US than by all non-handgun classes of fire arms combined. I am just questioning the strategy of engaging in what would almost certainly be a long, expensive, and sure to fail political effort that in the end will not have that big of an impact on saving lives.
The problem with that argument is that it ignores the fact that while there are non-murderous legitimate purposes for using a knife, there aren't any for non-handgun firearms.
More people die each year in car crashes than from heroin overdose - but that's not a really sensible argument why heroin should be legal.
Well, not really. There are legitimate uses for handguns. Lots of people (including people on this forum) like to go target shooting. And, in the US, it's decided it's legitimate to carry one for self-defence.
So, since a handgun ban will never fly, I'm trying to think of ways you can maintain those kinds of legitimate uses, but restrict how useful handguns might be to a murderer.
Quote from: garbon on August 15, 2012, 12:12:03 PM
Quote from: Martinus on August 15, 2012, 12:06:20 PM
Quote from: Valmy on August 15, 2012, 12:04:33 PM
Quote from: Barrister on August 14, 2012, 02:13:03 PM
Well what about my suggestion - limit magazine size to 5-6 bullets for hand guns. Make possession of a larger size illegal, but with a lengthy grace period and refund/voucher when you turn in an over-size magazine. Hard to go on a shooting rampage if you need to constantly reload - but it still gives you the firepower you need in self-defence.
And while the Sikh Temple was hand guns, lots of other ASEs are from semi-automatic rifles.
Vastly more people are killed by knives every year in the US than by all non-handgun classes of fire arms combined. I am just questioning the strategy of engaging in what would almost certainly be a long, expensive, and sure to fail political effort that in the end will not have that big of an impact on saving lives.
The problem with that argument is that it ignores the fact that while there are non-murderous legitimate purposes for using a knife, there aren't any for non-handgun firearms.
More people die each year in car crashes than from heroin overdose - but that's not a really sensible argument why heroin should be legal.
Is hunting murder?
Wait - did I misread Marty?
Is he saying handguns have a purpose, but not long guns? :wacko:
Quote from: Valmy on August 15, 2012, 12:04:33 PM
Vastly more people are killed by knives every year in the US than by all non-handgun classes of fire arms combined. I am just questioning the strategy of engaging in what would almost certainly be a long, expensive, and sure to fail political effort that in the end will not have that big of an impact on saving lives. Besides gun violence has been declining for years.
Actually in 2004 it seems it was around 20% "other" firearms and 15% knives in the murder stats.
I don't know. Am I? :P
Quote from: Barrister on August 15, 2012, 12:15:58 PM
Quote from: garbon on August 15, 2012, 12:12:03 PM
Quote from: Martinus on August 15, 2012, 12:06:20 PM
Quote from: Valmy on August 15, 2012, 12:04:33 PM
Quote from: Barrister on August 14, 2012, 02:13:03 PM
Well what about my suggestion - limit magazine size to 5-6 bullets for hand guns. Make possession of a larger size illegal, but with a lengthy grace period and refund/voucher when you turn in an over-size magazine. Hard to go on a shooting rampage if you need to constantly reload - but it still gives you the firepower you need in self-defence.
And while the Sikh Temple was hand guns, lots of other ASEs are from semi-automatic rifles.
Vastly more people are killed by knives every year in the US than by all non-handgun classes of fire arms combined. I am just questioning the strategy of engaging in what would almost certainly be a long, expensive, and sure to fail political effort that in the end will not have that big of an impact on saving lives.
The problem with that argument is that it ignores the fact that while there are non-murderous legitimate purposes for using a knife, there aren't any for non-handgun firearms.
More people die each year in car crashes than from heroin overdose - but that's not a really sensible argument why heroin should be legal.
Is hunting murder?
Wait - did I misread Marty?
Is he saying handguns have a purpose, but not long guns? :wacko:
Actually at the current moment it is probably just best to ignore him. He seems to be in a tizzy.
Quote from: Martinus on August 15, 2012, 12:13:50 PM
It's like masturbating at cartoon child porn.
On one hand, it is not strictly speaking an evil activity, but the people who engage in it should be watched quite closely.
You like to watch people masturbate? :huh:
:D
Quote from: PDH on August 15, 2012, 12:16:52 PM
Actually in 2004 it seems it was around 20% "other" firearms and 15% knives in the murder stats.
Clearly in 2004 using a knife put you at an immediate disadvantage.
Quote from: Valmy on August 15, 2012, 12:37:12 PM
[Clearly in 2004 using a knife put you at an immediate disadvantage.
:D
Quote from: Valmy on August 15, 2012, 12:04:33 PM
Quote from: Barrister on August 14, 2012, 02:13:03 PM
Well what about my suggestion - limit magazine size to 5-6 bullets for hand guns. Make possession of a larger size illegal, but with a lengthy grace period and refund/voucher when you turn in an over-size magazine. Hard to go on a shooting rampage if you need to constantly reload - but it still gives you the firepower you need in self-defence.
And while the Sikh Temple was hand guns, lots of other ASEs are from semi-automatic rifles.
Vastly more people are killed by knives every year in the US than by all non-handgun classes of fire arms combined. I am just questioning the strategy of engaging in what would almost certainly be a long, expensive, and sure to fail political effort that in the end will not have that big of an impact on saving lives. Besides gun violence has been declining for years.
But that's not saying much is it ?
If you look at the number of US policemen murder each year, the vast majority is by gun, and actually vehicles are the next biggest killer, consistently ahead of knifes, which often kill no officers each year.