Are there any? I got to thinking about KFC and McDonald's and such, their international presence and the thought crossed my mind that they're all American based. I can think of big Yuro corporations that operate around the globe, but none on the franchise model.
Is this because of tax codes? Lack of entrepeneurial spirit?
(This could be a short thread.)
They are product / culture based rather than franchise based?
Feta, Champagne, Burgundy, Bordeaux, Bratwurst, Beethoven, Fish n Chips, etc?
Quote from: PRC on May 07, 2009, 11:43:20 PM
They are product / culture based rather than franchise based?
Feta, Champagne, Burgundy, Bordeaux, Bratwurst, Beethoven, Fish n Chips, etc?
Hi, Mart. :)
Quote from: Admiral Yi on May 07, 2009, 11:41:37 PM
Are there any? I got to thinking about KFC and McDonald's and such, their international presence and the thought crossed my mind that they're all American based. I can think of big Yuro corporations that operate around the globe, but none on the franchise model.
Is this because of tax codes? Lack of entrepeneurial spirit?
(This could be a short thread.)
How does Aldi work overseas? Franchise? Or corp?
Quote from: garbon on May 07, 2009, 11:45:58 PM
Hi, Mart. :)
What an insult! You've wounded me, Ma'am.
Do you just mean restaurants? There's stores, like Tesco and Carrefour.
Quote from: PRC on May 07, 2009, 11:54:55 PM
What an insult! You've wounded me, Ma'am.
:bowler:
Quote from: DisturbedPervert on May 07, 2009, 11:56:33 PM
Do you just mean restaurants? There's stores, like Tesco and Carrefour.
But owned by the parent company, no?
Quote from: Admiral Yi on May 07, 2009, 11:58:23 PM
But owned by the parent company, no?
I don't know. Tesco here is joint with a company called Lotus, but I guess not individually franchised.
Quote from: Admiral Yi on May 07, 2009, 11:57:49 PM
Quote from: Syt on May 07, 2009, 11:53:24 PM
How does Aldi work overseas?
What's an Aldi?
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Aldi
But apparently not a franchise thing.
Quote from: Admiral Yi on May 07, 2009, 11:58:23 PM
Quote from: DisturbedPervert on May 07, 2009, 11:56:33 PM
Do you just mean restaurants? There's stores, like Tesco and Carrefour.
But owned by the parent company, no?
Carrefour is at least partially franchised. No idea about Tesco.
Yi, I think you are also overestimating the popularity of US-based franchises in Europe. Sure, McDonald's and KFC are rather wide spread (but not as much as in the US - for example living in Brussels, I haven't seen a single one of these; and in Warsaw, after the initial post-communist boom, they are beginning to lose money), but others didn't really take a foot hold (for example Burger King totally flopped, Starbucks also didn't take a hold outside of the UK etc.)
I read an article about this recently, actually, and based on what I read, I'd say that the relative lack of franchises in Europe is not because none wants to build a franchise network, but because European small enterpreneurs are not too hot about the concept of belonging to a franchise network. Apparently, the perceived benefits of belonging to a franchise are much less than the demands franchise owners are placing on the franchisees (this is the reason why several US franchises which tried to enter Poland, retreated after several years). Besides, especially, when it comes to food industry, belonging to a franchise may be more a curse than a boon in Europe.
Quote from: Martinus on May 08, 2009, 12:19:40 AM
Yi, I think you are also overestimating the popularity of US-based franchises in Europe. Sure, McDonald's and KFC are rather wide spread, but others didn't really make a foot hold (for example Burger King totally flopped, Starbucks also didn't take a hold outside of the UK etc.)
[/quote]
I was actually thinking about KFC in Pakistan and McDonald's in China.
Quote from: Admiral Yi on May 08, 2009, 12:22:40 AM
Quote from: Martinus on May 08, 2009, 12:19:40 AM
Yi, I think you are also overestimating the popularity of US-based franchises in Europe. Sure, McDonald's and KFC are rather wide spread, but others didn't really make a foot hold (for example Burger King totally flopped, Starbucks also didn't take a hold outside of the UK etc.)
I was actually thinking about KFC in Pakistan and McDonald's in China.
[/quote]
Ok. But I thought we were talking about franchises in Europe?
The fact that both US franchises and European franchises are doing worse in Europe suggests that it's less the fact that "Europeans can't build a franchise network, and Americans can" but that "Europeans don't want to belong to a franchise network".
The appeal of a franchise brand is not enough for most SME to justify paying a big license fee for the use of the franchise and giving away a lot of control over how their business is run; and in many cases, customers perceive a franchise (when it comes to food industry at least) as lower quality, actually.
Now, numerous European retail chains or gas station chains are run as franchises, at least partially. Most mobile operators also have distribution networks that run as franchises.
I remember reading an article somewhere (Economist or so?) that franchising is just not as widespread in Europe as it is in America. I can't think of many international franchise models in Europe. Some in fashion like Benetton, Zara, Esprit. Obi, which is kind of a Home Depot and operates throughout Europe. I know quite a few franchises that operate only in Germany, e.g. small fastfood chains, travel agents, opticians, etc.
Are car dealerships franchises?
The selling point of a franchise is that you go into an establishment and receive the exact same product regardless of the location. A Big Mac is a Big Mac is a Big Mac and a Grande Americano is a Grande Americano is a Grande Americano.
North America likes that safety net of knowing what they are going to get when they buy. Europe is more comfortable going for food, ordering off a menu, and possibly having an unknown crap meal that they didn't originally bargain for.
Euro sucks.
Quote from: PRC on May 08, 2009, 12:29:37 AM
The selling point of a franchise is that you go into an establishment and receive the exact same product regardless of the location. A Big Mac is a Big Mac is a Big Mac and a Grande Americano is a Grande Americano is a Grande Americano.
North America likes that safety net of knowing what they are going to get when they buy. Europe is more comfortable going for food, ordering off a menu, and possibly having an unknown crap meal that they didn't originally bargain for.
Yeah, pretty much.
Where Americans see consistency and safety, Euros see the lack of creativity and boredom.
I mean, even McDonald's in Europe is not exactly the same in each country - in fact, there are wild differences, not just in the menu, but also in stuff like composition of Coca Cola, apparently, because it is all purchased locally, from local bottlers.
I don't know about other countries, but Marty's claim that franchise companies are generally not successful in Europe is not true for Germany. McDonald's is very successful here, Burger King is doing okay, Subway is booming, Starbucks didn't do so well because they had a bad strategy: not operating on a franchise model, but rather having few company-owned shops. There are lots of smaller regional food chains though: Kochlöffel, Ditsch, Kamps etc.
Quote from: Syt on May 08, 2009, 12:11:06 AM
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Aldi
But apparently not a franchise thing.
We have one in my town. And Yi claims to be from the midwest. :rolleyes: Also IKEA.
Well, the European common market is relatively young compared to the American one. American companies have had better possibilities to expand and accumulate wealth inside national borders before going overseas. I'm just guessing here.
Quote from: Martinus on May 08, 2009, 12:32:22 AM
Yeah, pretty much.
Where Americans see consistency and safety, Euros see the lack of creativity and boredom.
I mean, even McDonald's in Europe is not exactly the same in each country - in fact, there are wild differences, not just in the menu, but also in stuff like composition of Coca Cola, apparently, because it is all purchased locally, from local bottlers.
:yawn:
Do you ever get tired making up crap? Or is this another one of your lovely affectations?
http://www.spiegel.de/international/business/0,1518,566619,00.html
McDonald's has higher revenue in Europe than in the USA.
It's more complex than that. Actually the question should be: Why all big franchises are American? It's not only Europe; there are no big Japanese, Chinese or Indian franchises either and they don't need to go international to become one of the biggest. a Chinese or Indian franchise operating exclusively in their home turf could get big indeed...
Now, there are relatively big European franchises, like IKEA (yes, IKEA uses franchising), Benetton or Zara... but oddly enough, not in the same areas than American ones.
http://www.entrepreneur.com/franchises/topglobal/index.html
This list (the first I found, perhaps there are much better ones) lists amongst the biggest Subway, MacDonalds and Pizza Hut, but also Liberty Tax Service, Ace Hardware and UPS, for example.
Quote from: garbon on May 08, 2009, 12:38:15 AM
Do you ever get tired making up crap? Or is this another one of your lovely affectations?
He's right about the local produce, though. McD's in Germany and Austria at least pride themselves in advertising good "German"/"Austrian" beef/taters/milk/cheese etc.
Quote from: Zanza2 on May 08, 2009, 12:33:59 AM
I don't know about other countries, but Marty's claim that franchise companies are generally not successful in Europe is not true for Germany. McDonald's is very successful here, Burger King is doing okay, Subway is booming, Starbucks didn't do so well because they had a bad strategy: not operating on a franchise model, but rather having few company-owned shops. There are lots of smaller regional food chains though: Kochlöffel, Ditsch, Kamps etc.
National differences seem very big... in Spain MacDonalds and Burger King are doing much better than KFC, Subway is completely unknown (I just didn't know they existed until I read this thread), Starbucks are appearing everywhere...
Quote from: garbon on May 08, 2009, 12:38:15 AM
:yawn:
Do you ever get tired making up crap? Or is this another one of your lovely affectations?
It's true to a certain degree... McDonalds in Greece offers "Mojo" fries, thick cut fries as opposed to shoestring ones which are offered everywhere else... and McDonalds in Holland serve Pizza (in 1998 anyways), which you can occasionally find here in NA as discussed in a recent thread. Also you can buy beer in Euro Ratland which you can't over here.
Quote from: Syt on May 08, 2009, 12:41:59 AM
He's right about the local produce, though. McD's in Germany and Austria at least pride themselves in advertising good "German"/"Austrian" beef/taters/milk/cheese etc.
Well it would be weird for McDonald's here to position itself on having good American food...
Anyway, I really objected to his generalizations about places that he will probably never visit and clearly knows little about.
Maybe there is something about being gay/"bisexual" as between him and Carrot we seem to have a couple of know-it-alls. I wonder what I pretend to know about. :Embarrass:
Quote from: PRC on May 08, 2009, 12:45:07 AM
Quote from: garbon on May 08, 2009, 12:38:15 AM
:yawn:
Do you ever get tired making up crap? Or is this another one of your lovely affectations?
It's true to a certain degree... McDonalds in Greece offers "Mojo" fries, thick cut fries as opposed to shoestring ones which are offered everywhere else... and McDonalds in Holland serve Pizza (in 1998 anyways), which you can occasionally find here in NA as discussed in a recent thread. Also you can buy beer in Euro Ratland which you can't over here.
Yeah, Burger King and McDonalds offer beer in Spain (and a friend of mine that worked for MacDonalds Spain told me they had to fight a long, hard battle to convince US top brass before they were allowed to), and salads and gazpacho too...
I can't remember ever seeing a KFC in Germany really. Are there any, Syt?
Quote from: PRC on May 08, 2009, 12:45:07 AM
It's true to a certain degree... McDonalds in Greece offers "Mojo" fries, thick cut fries as opposed to shoestring ones which are offered everywhere else... and McDonalds in Holland serve Pizza (in 1998 anyways), which you can occasionally find here in NA as discussed in a recent thread. Also you can buy beer in Euro Ratland which you can't over here.
In New England, McDonalds offered up McLobster...whoop de doo. :mellow:
McDonalds in Thailand is basically a fried chicken joint rather than a burger joint.
Taco Bell in Australia was more of a burger joint.
Quote from: garbon on May 08, 2009, 12:49:04 AM
In New England, McDonalds offered up McLobster...whoop de doo. :mellow:
That's regional variety anyways. The tone of your post seemed to criticize Martinus for inferring regional variety was possible for a franchise.
Quote from: Alatriste on May 08, 2009, 12:40:51 AMthere are no big Japanese, Chinese or Indian franchises
As for mega Japanese chains, there is Family Mart, which has 13,000 stores, half of them outside of Japan.
MOS Burger seems to be starting to expand abroad as well.
Quote from: Martinus on May 08, 2009, 12:27:31 AM
Ok. But I thought we were talking about franchises in Europe?
You are a retarded ass clown. How is that for an analogy?
Quote from: Zanza2 on May 08, 2009, 12:48:56 AM
I can't remember ever seeing a KFC in Germany really. Are there any, Syt?
Yes there are, just not that many:
http://www.kfc.de/index.php?location=locator
There was one in Schweinfurt, across the street from where my sister lived. However, at the time (15 years ago) it may have been a U.S. Army add on. Unlike Popeye's or BK they weren't on the army compound (so they were accessible to everyone), but they still accepted both Deutsche Mark and USD.
We have a couple KFCs in Vienna but no Pizza Huts. KFC restarted a couple years ago, after a first attempt had failed.
Quote from: PRC on May 08, 2009, 12:56:04 AM
That's regional variety anyways. The tone of your post seemed to criticize Martinus for inferring regional variety was possible for a franchise.
It is night time, I'm less inclined to crop quotes. Here's what I think he should be called out on:
QuoteWhere Americans see consistency and safety, Euros see the lack of creativity and boredom.
Besides, Marty acted as though regional variety (and thus less franchise-like) was a euro thing...whereas Americans were happy with their static chains that were boring and lacked creativity. I wonder what he would make of the McDonald's in an old box car or the one in a victorian style home that I encountered in....America! :o :zipped:
Quote from: katmai on May 08, 2009, 12:57:00 AM
You are a retarded ass clown. How is that for an analogy?
:hug:
Fag.
There are loads of European franchises.
Wimpy, Febo, etc.... They exist
I struggled to think of any European franchises at first, but then I realised that most of our food stores are franchises. Pret a Manger, Eat, Wasabi, Itsu, Costa Coffee, Cafe Nero, Upper Crust, Pain Quotidien, Paul, Patisserie Valerie, and so on.
I guess these stores have struggled to penetrate the USA because of market saturation or cultural differences, if they have tried at all.
Quote from: Admiral Yi on May 07, 2009, 11:41:37 PM
Are there any?
Yes, but I doubt any of them are anything near the size of McDonald's. Norwegian franchises abroad are few, but clothes vendors Dressmann operate in Eastern Europe, at least.
Quote from: Martinus on May 08, 2009, 12:32:22 AM
I mean, even McDonald's in Europe is not exactly the same in each country - in fact, there are wild differences, not just in the menu, but also in stuff like composition of Coca Cola, apparently, because it is all purchased locally, from local bottlers.
:huh:
I've been in a McDonalds in London, as well as one in Genoa. In London, the menu was totally identical IIRC, but I think the drink sizes were noticably smaller.
In Genoa, the menu had all the typical McDonalds shit on it, but there were a couple of additions, including some 'Caribbean' chicken sandwich, and there might have been a burger version of this also.
Also, the McDonalds in Genoa had substantially more gypsies in it than a typical McDonalds in the US. :blush:
Quote from: PRC on May 08, 2009, 12:29:37 AM
North America likes that safety net of knowing what they are going to get when they buy. Europe is more comfortable going for food, ordering off a menu, and possibly having an unknown crap meal that they didn't originally bargain for.
My limited (by choice) experience with American franchises suggests you are much better off going to a random restaurant or bar than a McDonalds or similar. They are consistent all right, consistently crap.
Quote from: Caliga on May 08, 2009, 07:28:54 AM
In Genoa, the menu had all the typical McDonalds shit on it, but there were a couple of additions, including some 'Caribbean' chicken sandwich, and there might have been a burger version of this also.
I'd think that would be some limited time special thing, they pop up often. Right now its some Chicago style crap IIRC.
Quote from: Tyr on May 08, 2009, 07:32:51 AMI'd think that would be some limited time special thing, they pop up often. Right now its some Chicago style crap IIRC.
Oh, I guess you could be right... didn't think of that. I never saw any 'Caribbean' type stuff at a US McDonalds, though.
btw, if you Euros ever got a Chik-Fil-A, you'd never eat at your fancy-schmancy "local flavor restaurants" again. :mmm:
The french fries at the Paris Metro Cadet Mickey D's are a thousand times better than the ones here.
Quote from: Warspite on May 08, 2009, 05:49:01 AM
I struggled to think of any European franchises at first, but then I realised that most of our food stores are franchises. Pret a Manger, Eat, Wasabi, Itsu, Costa Coffee, Cafe Nero, Upper Crust, Pain Quotidien, Paul, Patisserie Valerie, and so on.
I guess these stores have struggled to penetrate the USA because of market saturation or cultural differences, if they have tried at all.
I have seen Pret a Manger and Pain Quotidien in the US before. I had no idea those were UK companies.
Looking at some of those other chains those are very young companies that have only started to expand abroad.
Also, the united colors of Benetton can continue to suck my balls.
I hope we get a Nando's soon.
Quote from: Caliga on May 08, 2009, 07:34:25 AM
btw, if you Euros ever got a Chik-Fil-A, you'd never eat at your fancy-schmancy "local flavor restaurants" again. :mmm:
Says the guy who eats at Kentucky flavor restaurants all the time.
Or are those Chik-Fil-A gas stations?
Quote from: Valmy on May 08, 2009, 07:44:59 AMSays the guy who eats at Kentucky flavor restaurants all the time.
Or are those Chik-Fil-A gas stations?
Your logic = flawed, since Kentucky flavor restaurants >>>>>>> Euro flavor restaurants. I mean, it's finger licking good. :huh:
Quote from: Iormlund on May 08, 2009, 07:30:18 AM
My limited (by choice) experience with American franchises suggests you are much better off going to a random restaurant or bar than a McDonalds or similar. They are consistent all right, consistently crap.
McDonalds and KFC are horrendous even by fast food standards. I have no idea why they are successful, but I suspect it is simply that they have been around forever and people know them.
As Zanza said though they do better in Euroland than in the US. They have alot of competition here...competition that is better for a comparable price IMO.
Quote from: Caliga on May 08, 2009, 07:46:39 AM
Your logic = flawed, since Kentucky flavor restaurants >>>>>>> Euro flavor restaurants. I mean, it's finger licking good. :huh:
Point taken -_-
Quote from: Valmy on May 08, 2009, 07:44:59 AM
Quote from: Caliga on May 08, 2009, 07:34:25 AM
btw, if you Euros ever got a Chik-Fil-A, you'd never eat at your fancy-schmancy "local flavor restaurants" again. :mmm:
Says the guy who eats at Kentucky flavor restaurants all the time.
Or are those Chik-Fil-A gas stations?
Boy, you just didn't insult Chik-Fil-A, did you now?
Mcdonalds was always big on adapting itself to where it's located. It's one the main reason why it's so succesfull.
I think it's in the Philippine that they serve Spaghetti.
Quote from: Valmy on May 08, 2009, 07:47:44 AM
McDonalds and KFC are horrendous even by fast food standards. I have no idea why they are successful, but I suspect it is simply that they have been around forever and people know them.
I generally agree with you on KFC, which is ironic since as you can imagine there's one on every damn corner here. In general the quality of all of the chains owned by Yum! Brands is EXTREMELY POOR, IMO.
On McDonalds, they seem to have been making major strides lately though. There's a brand new McDonalds in my town and it's always clean, the workers are efficient and professional and never screw orders up*, and the quality of food seems to be better than it was at other McDonalds in years past. It makes the Dairy Queen down the street from it look like a total piece of shit.
* this is significant since they are all hicks from "the wrong side of the lake", i.e. the part of the county that's an outlier of Appalachia.
Quote from: Grey Fox on May 08, 2009, 07:48:56 AM
Mcdonalds was always big on adapting itself to where it's located. It's one the main reason why it's so succesfull.
I think it's in the Philippine that they serve Spaghetti.
I don't miss the damn McLobster Roll though. :x
Quote from: Caliga on May 08, 2009, 07:53:10 AM
On McDonalds, they seem to have been making major strides lately though. There's a brand new McDonalds in my town and it's always clean, the workers are efficient and professional and never screw orders up*, and the quality of food seems to be better than it was at other McDonalds in years past. It makes the Dairy Queen down the street from it look like a total piece of shit.
I will give you that. When I was a kid people used to take us to McDonalds all the time because, you know, that is what kids supposedly like. I swore I would never eat at that crap place again as soon as I was old enough. So I guess I have to concede it could have gotten better since 1987 or whenever the last time I ate there was.
I wish Cold Stone and Five Guys would open up in the UK.
Quote from: Valmy on May 08, 2009, 07:55:56 AM
Quote from: Caliga on May 08, 2009, 07:53:10 AM
On McDonalds, they seem to have been making major strides lately though. There's a brand new McDonalds in my town and it's always clean, the workers are efficient and professional and never screw orders up*, and the quality of food seems to be better than it was at other McDonalds in years past. It makes the Dairy Queen down the street from it look like a total piece of shit.
I will give you that. When I was a kid people used to take us to McDonalds all the time because, you know, that is what kids supposedly like. I swore I would never eat at that crap place again as soon as I was old enough. So I guess I have to concede it could have gotten better since 1987 or whenever the last time I ate there was.
DUDE, THEY HAVE A PLAYGROUND.
Quote from: Valmy on May 08, 2009, 07:55:56 AMI will give you that. When I was a kid people used to take us to McDonalds all the time because, you know, that is what kids supposedly like. I swore I would never eat at that crap place again as soon as I was old enough. So I guess I have to concede it could have gotten better since 1987 or whenever the last time I ate there was.
:lol: Man in your mind McDonalds must be the place to go to get a McDLT and listen to Mac Tonite muzak.
Coke and Pepsi also use the franchise model.
I think you can make a general rule that corporations using the franchise model to serve the general public that have a significant international presence tend to be American (even if some are European). I like the idea that someone had earlier of the relatively recent introduction of the european free trade zone. World War II probably influenced things as well, as many of the companies that are international franchises go back to at least the 1950s.
Cold Stone should really come to Europe. I'd love that.
McDonald's here basically expanded their business to copy Starbuck's idea. A lof of McDonald's shops have part of their shop with nice chairs and dark wood now and serve different kinds of coffee. It's called McCafé. They also always have some special offers, which are probably Germany-specific.
Quote from: Zanza2 on May 08, 2009, 08:24:22 AM
Cold Stone should really come to Europe. I'd love that.
McDonald's here basically expanded their business to copy Starbuck's idea. A lof of McDonald's shops have part of their shop with nice chairs and dark wood now and serve different kinds of coffee. It's called McCafé. They also always have some special offers, which are probably Germany-specific.
Actually the new McDonalds I was mentioning earlier is a McCafe concept outlet too.
Quote from: Martinus on May 08, 2009, 12:27:31 AM
... in many cases, customers perceive a franchise (when it comes to food industry at least) as lower quality, actually
I think that this is the key.
Is Wimpie's still around? Weinerwald (who had franchises in USA at one point)?
The world's worst McDonalds franchise location has to be the one on the 400 just north of Toronto. Always incredibly busy, staffed by brain-dead local suburbanite teens, filthy beyond compare, the food a lawsuit waiting to happen. Thing is they have a monopoly on the highway traffic, so they don't need to be any good.
Quote from: Malthus on May 08, 2009, 10:02:40 AM
The world's worst McDonalds franchise location has to be the one on the 400 just north of Toronto. Always incredibly busy, staffed by brain-dead local suburbanite teens, filthy beyond compare, the food a lawsuit waiting to happen. Thing is they have a monopoly on the highway traffic, so they don't need to be any good.
Sounds like the McD's locations on the Garden State Parkway. I *did* get sick after eating at one of them. Should've known better, but I was dying of hunger & didn't have other options.
Ditto for the Roy Rogers places on the NJ Turnpike as well, come to think of it.
My corp law professor yestedrday was kidn enough to tell us that the KFC/Taco Bell nearby was on youtube with a video of rats dancing across everything. She pointed out that the restaurant had closed, but the rats were still around...
Given that I eat around here, I was not a fan.
Quote from: derspiess on May 08, 2009, 10:28:09 AM
Quote from: Malthus on May 08, 2009, 10:02:40 AM
The world's worst McDonalds franchise location has to be the one on the 400 just north of Toronto. Always incredibly busy, staffed by brain-dead local suburbanite teens, filthy beyond compare, the food a lawsuit waiting to happen. Thing is they have a monopoly on the highway traffic, so they don't need to be any good.
Sounds like the McD's locations on the Garden State Parkway. I *did* get sick after eating at one of them. Should've known better, but I was dying of hunger & didn't have other options.
Ditto for the Roy Rogers places on the NJ Turnpike as well, come to think of it.
I suspect it is the lack of options that makes such a place bad (and stay in business), rather than the specific franchise chain.
The last time i went there, and what convinced me to drive miles out of my way not to go again - I get a sprite, a burger and fries. Fries were cold and greasy - sort of floppy; the burger was cold too; I took a sip of the sprite - it tasted like chemicals - I spat it out. Took the sprite up to the counter and said "this tastes like some sort of chemical". The manager appears and doesn't bat an eye; he says "oh yeah, we've been getting that a lot this AM, I guess someone forgot to wash the cleaner out of the machine". My reaction: "then why are you still selling drinks from that machine, when you *know* it is contaminated?" His reaction was to shrug a bit.
Quote from: Malthus on May 08, 2009, 10:43:40 AM
I suspect it is the lack of options that makes such a place bad (and stay in business), rather than the specific franchise chain.
Perhaps in uncivilized places. I've never had any problems on my Transcalifornia trips.
Quote from: garbon on May 08, 2009, 10:49:49 AM
Quote from: Malthus on May 08, 2009, 10:43:40 AM
I suspect it is the lack of options that makes such a place bad (and stay in business), rather than the specific franchise chain.
Perhaps in uncivilized places. I've never had any problems on my Transcalifornia trips.
Your two sentences don't jibe. :P
Quote from: Grey Fox on May 08, 2009, 07:48:56 AM
I think it's in the Philippine that they serve Spaghetti.
Ah, so that's why McDonalds in the Philippines has guards armed with machine guns.
Quote from: Malthus on May 08, 2009, 10:50:49 AM
Your two sentences don't jibe. :P
You live, voluntarily I assume, in Canada. I wouldn't expect you to understand. :hug:
Quote from: garbon on May 08, 2009, 10:53:30 AM
Quote from: Malthus on May 08, 2009, 10:50:49 AM
Your two sentences don't jibe. :P
You live, voluntarily I assume, in Canada. I wouldn't expect you to understand. :hug:
Because nothing says "civilization" better than a state governed by an ex-Austrian bodybuilder in which gay folk can't marry. :D
Quote from: Malthus on May 08, 2009, 10:58:45 AM
Because nothing says "civilization" better than a state governed by an ex-Austrian bodybuilder in which gay folk can't marry. :D
You can play that game with any location. Won't pass muster. :(
Quote from: Malthus on May 08, 2009, 10:58:45 AM
Because nothing says "civilization" better than a state governed by an ex-Austrian bodybuilder in which gay folk can't marry. :D
:lol:
Quote from: garbon on May 08, 2009, 11:02:20 AM
Quote from: Malthus on May 08, 2009, 10:58:45 AM
Because nothing says "civilization" better than a state governed by an ex-Austrian bodybuilder in which gay folk can't marry. :D
You can play that game with any location. Won't pass muster. :(
Face it, you got schooled.
Know why? Because you don't even know enough about Canada to reply in kind.
Yet another benefit of a "civilized" US education. :D
Quote from: Malthus on May 08, 2009, 11:08:19 AM
Face it, you got schooled.
Know why? Because you don't even know enough about Canada to reply in kind.
Yet another benefit of a "civilized" US education. :D
It's true, I do not. But then, one doesn't need to. :)
How knowledge of irrelevant current events plays into "civilization" is beyond me. I doubt in school that you were taught about California's ex-Austrian governor, unless in Canada, they teach fortune telling...:o
do avoid the BK at Albert/ Sask Drive and the McD's at Albert/Dewdney in Regina. just horrible. also Burger Baron, way way overrated.
I have never had a bad meal at A&W in Canada.
Quote from: derspiess on May 08, 2009, 10:28:09 AMDitto for the Roy Rogers places on the NJ Turnpike as well, come to think of it.
:mad:
Roy's :wub:
I was going to post about a few European franchises, but Ark beat me to the punch.
Speaking of Japanese franchises, there's a ramen shop down the road that is part of a franchise with locations in Hawaii, Tokyo, Vancouver and I think one or two other places.
Oh... and what about Pho Hoa? I'm guessing they're American, but I don't know.
http://www.phohoa.com/
EDIT: Ah, there it is. American :)
Quote from: Tyr on May 08, 2009, 07:32:51 AM
Quote from: Caliga on May 08, 2009, 07:28:54 AM
In Genoa, the menu had all the typical McDonalds shit on it, but there were a couple of additions, including some 'Caribbean' chicken sandwich, and there might have been a burger version of this also.
I'd think that would be some limited time special thing, they pop up often. Right now its some Chicago style crap IIRC.
I only like the specials at MackyD's. Esp. when they have the "Big Tasty Bacon" or that Chili Jalapeno burger. Most other stuff is crap.
Quote from: saskganesh on May 08, 2009, 09:26:21 AM
Is Wimpie's still around? Weinerwald (who had franchises in USA at one point)?
Wiki says it is.
I remember seeing one in Wembley about 6 years ago.
Quote from: Caliga on May 08, 2009, 07:28:54 AM
I've been in a McDonalds in London, as well as one in Genoa. In London, the menu was totally identical IIRC, but I think the drink sizes were noticably smaller.
Pop is decanted in smaller amounts all over Europe.
Is there perhaps less of a tradition of small business lending in Europe than in the US? That would be a partial explanation.
Quote from: Admiral Yi on May 08, 2009, 02:46:52 PM
Is there perhaps less of a tradition of small business lending in Europe than in the US? That would be a partial explanation.
How could that be an explanation ? Restaurants - at least in France - are extremely local. So are many other shops, and artisan business is greatly valued. It is about getting something quite specific rather than getting the exact same experience replicated elsewhere. I know restaurants in France who take pains *not* to advertise, because they feel they have enough clients as it is.
Franchises, which do exist in Europe, are dependant on integrated publicity strategies which are, because of cultural differences, difficult to superimpose easily on a great number of different countries with different sensibilities. Brands are able to do so. American restaurants were able to do so in the rest of the world because they are associated much less with the kind of food they offer than because they are brands representing «America». Just like Paul bakeries sell the image of French bread in Europe. Which means you will get few franchises that can traverse boundaries and a number of national franchises, which can sustain themselves (for the French: Zara, Petit Bateau, Carrefour, Tesco, Total, etc.)
Tell me more about the IKEA franchise model.
Quote from: The Brain on May 08, 2009, 04:46:02 PM
Tell me more about the IKEA franchise model.
It is based on leftover screws.
Quote from: Oexmelin on May 08, 2009, 04:08:58 PM
Quote from: Admiral Yi on May 08, 2009, 02:46:52 PM
Is there perhaps less of a tradition of small business lending in Europe than in the US? That would be a partial explanation.
How could that be an explanation ? Restaurants - at least in France - are extremely local. So are many other shops, and artisan business is greatly valued. It is about getting something quite specific rather than getting the exact same experience replicated elsewhere. I know restaurants in France who take pains *not* to advertise, because they feel they have enough clients as it is.
Franchises, which do exist in Europe, are dependant on integrated publicity strategies which are, because of cultural differences, difficult to superimpose easily on a great number of different countries with different sensibilities. Brands are able to do so. American restaurants were able to do so in the rest of the world because they are associated much less with the kind of food they offer than because they are brands representing «America». Just like Paul bakeries sell the image of French bread in Europe. Which means you will get few franchises that can traverse boundaries and a number of national franchises, which can sustain themselves (for the French: Zara, Petit Bateau, Carrefour, Tesco, Total, etc.)
Oex, I'm not sure that your list of french franchises are all franchises. Are you sure?
Anyway, I don't think that there is anything distinctly american about a lot of our franchises. The food was basically invented by the chains to get out an edible product quickly, consistently, and cheaply. Think of some of the most successful fast food franchises: McDonald's, Pizza Hut, and KFC. Possibly excluding KFC, I don't think any of those would have been identified as American types of food before the franchise movement took off in this country after WWII.
Also, there have been franchised brands that were originated outside the US that have done very well. Fanta, for example, was invented in Europe and spread worldwide. But it did so as part of an American company.
I don't think it is a shock that American franchises would dominate. Go back to the three companies I mentioned: Pizza Hut and KFC both went global under the Pepsi umbrella, and McDonald's didn't go global until it was large in the US. Unless you have a lot of financing behind you, it is hard to go worldwide, and in the post WWII world there was a lot more money in the US. It was also much easier to build a domestic base for a worldwide launch in the US, and arguably that wasn't possible in Europe at all until the trade barriers came down.
Quote from: garbon on May 08, 2009, 01:00:28 AM
Besides, Marty acted as though regional variety (and thus less franchise-like) was a euro thing...whereas Americans were happy with their static chains that were boring and lacked creativity. I wonder what he would make of the McDonald's in an old box car or the one in a victorian style home that I encountered in....America! :o :zipped:
I was basing my post on this post by PRC:
QuoteThe selling point of a franchise is that you go into an establishment and receive the exact same product regardless of the location. A Big Mac is a Big Mac is a Big Mac and a Grande Americano is a Grande Americano is a Grande Americano.
North America likes that safety net of knowing what they are going to get when they buy. Europe is more comfortable going for food, ordering off a menu, and possibly having an unknown crap meal that they didn't originally bargain for.
My post is pretty much saying what he said, but in different words. Seeing how PRC is an American, I took his assertions about the US as true. So why do you flame me for just repeating something he said?
Seriously, go fuck yourself.
Quote from: Warspite on May 08, 2009, 05:49:01 AM
I struggled to think of any European franchises at first, but then I realised that most of our food stores are franchises. Pret a Manger, Eat, Wasabi, Itsu, Costa Coffee, Cafe Nero, Upper Crust, Pain Quotidien, Paul, Patisserie Valerie, and so on.
I guess these stores have struggled to penetrate the USA because of market saturation or cultural differences, if they have tried at all.
I don't think many of them are international, not to mention continent-spanning, the way American franchises are, though.
Quote from: Martinus on May 08, 2009, 05:30:38 PM
My post is pretty much saying what he said, but in different words. Seeing how PRC is an American, I took his assertions about the US as true. So why do you flame me for just repeating something he said?
Seriously, go fuck yourself.
Ah, so even better, you just repackage others' opinions as though they are your own. :D
Anyway, calm down. Sure it isn't fun to be called out on your crap, but you can take it. :)
Also, I believe PRC is a Canadian (just to be clear that while "American" he's of the Canada variety).
Quote from: Valmy on May 08, 2009, 07:47:44 AM
McDonalds and KFC are horrendous even by fast food standards. I have no idea why they are successful, but I suspect it is simply that they have been around forever and people know them.
I think their success is that they are cheap, and in the price range they offer, you would be likely to find some really low-quality, low-hygenic food outside of a franchise.
Cheap? Maybe in Polackville.
Quote from: Martinus on May 08, 2009, 05:36:22 PM
I think their success is that they are cheap, and in the price range they offer, you would be likely to find some really low-quality, low-hygenic food outside of a franchise.
I don't think so. Unless one orders only a few items off of the dollar menu, McD's (/fast food for that matter) really isn't all that cheap. I think familiarity has to play a big role as there is a lot better stuff out there for similar pricing (at least here in the bay area). (Even though always thought of as rather pricey, one wouldn't need to spend that much more - if any - at Whole Foods for a much healthier meal.)
Well, a Big Mac Menu here is about the equivalent of $3. A lunch in a restaurant or a diner costs from $8 up and it does not include drinks.
Remember also that Poland (and a lot of Europe) do not really have a concept of "free refills" and dishes served in our restaurants are significantly smaller.
Quote from: Martinus on May 08, 2009, 05:45:14 PM
Well, a Big Mac Menu here is about the equivalent of $3. A lunch in a restaurant or a diner costs from $8 up and it does not include drinks.
LOL Poland.
Hint: The Third World is not representative.
Quote from: Martinus on May 08, 2009, 05:32:21 PM
I don't think many of them are international, not to mention continent-spanning, the way American franchises are, though.
I think the biggest reason for that is simply the concept is pretty old here. Very few of the big international chains have been created since 1970.
As time goes by competitors from other nations will move in in large numbers to compete with them.
Here you are looking at probably $7-8 for a meal and McD's. At Whole Foods I can get a pretty decent salad and a drink (fruit juice, tea, etc.) for under $8 (I usually send under $6 as I get a small salad).
Quote from: The Brain on May 08, 2009, 05:46:22 PM
Quote from: Martinus on May 08, 2009, 05:45:14 PM
Well, a Big Mac Menu here is about the equivalent of $3. A lunch in a restaurant or a diner costs from $8 up and it does not include drinks.
LOL Poland.
Hint: The Third World is not representative.
How is having a cheap McD an indicator of living in a third world country.
Civilization = paying more for crap? :D
Quote from: garbon on May 08, 2009, 05:40:45 PM
I don't think so. Unless one orders only a few items off of the dollar menu, McD's (/fast food for that matter) really isn't all that cheap. I think familiarity has to play a big role as there is a lot better stuff out there for similar pricing (at least here in the bay area). (Even though always thought of as rather pricey, one wouldn't need to spend that much more - if any - at Whole Foods for a much healthier meal.)
Yep there is a really good Tex-Mex place by my house that I spend about as much as I would for a fast food meal. Some of the Fast Food places, Schlotzky's comes to mind (which may not be as common outside of Austin since they are headquartered here), are actually surprisingly pricey.
Quote from: Martinus on May 08, 2009, 05:48:36 PM
How is having a cheap McD an indicator of living in a third world country.
Civilization = paying more for crap? :D
Lower standard of living.
Civilization = paying more for everything.
Quote from: Martinus on May 08, 2009, 05:48:36 PM
Quote from: The Brain on May 08, 2009, 05:46:22 PM
Quote from: Martinus on May 08, 2009, 05:45:14 PM
Well, a Big Mac Menu here is about the equivalent of $3. A lunch in a restaurant or a diner costs from $8 up and it does not include drinks.
LOL Poland.
Hint: The Third World is not representative.
How is having a cheap McD an indicator of living in a third world country.
Civilization = paying more for crap? :D
How much do you think you have to pay for a Coke in Chad?
Quote from: The Brain on May 08, 2009, 05:52:32 PM
How much do you think you have to pay for a Coke in Chad?
I wouldn't be paying Chad nothing to be snorting all my coke. :angry:
Quote from: garbon on May 08, 2009, 05:54:55 PM
Quote from: The Brain on May 08, 2009, 05:52:32 PM
How much do you think you have to pay for a Coke in Chad?
I wouldn't be paying Chad nothing to be snorting all my coke. :angry:
You are Cheap.
Quote from: Martinus on May 08, 2009, 05:36:22 PM
I think their success is that they are cheap, and in the price range they offer, you would be likely to find some really low-quality, low-hygenic food outside of a franchise.
That doesn't explain why other franchises haven't been successful. Taco Bell, for example has tried UK expansion (a baby step to Europe) 2 or 3 times and each time they've failed.
Quote from: Sheilbh on May 08, 2009, 06:19:24 PM
Quote from: Martinus on May 08, 2009, 05:36:22 PM
I think their success is that they are cheap, and in the price range they offer, you would be likely to find some really low-quality, low-hygenic food outside of a franchise.
That doesn't explain why other franchises haven't been successful. Taco Bell, for example has tried UK expansion (a baby step to Europe) 2 or 3 times and each time they've failed.
Even more shocking, when most brits eat shit.
That is my british food joke for the month.
Quote from: Ed Anger on May 08, 2009, 07:34:50 PM
Even more shocking, when most brits eat shit.
That is my british food joke for the month.
I like Taco Bell :blush:
I haven't eaten there in months though...trying to lose weight.
Quote from: Valmy on May 08, 2009, 07:36:36 PM
Quote from: Ed Anger on May 08, 2009, 07:34:50 PM
Even more shocking, when most brits eat shit.
That is my british food joke for the month.
I like Taco Bell :blush:
I haven't eaten there in months though...trying to lose weight.
I have a weakness for their bean burritos. :blush:
Without onion. God help them if there is onion my my burrito.
Del Taco >>>>>>>>> Taco Bell
Quote from: saskganesh on May 08, 2009, 12:48:42 PM
I have never had a bad meal at A&W in Canada.
I think the health department shut down all their locations in West Virginia, but I've seen a couple still open here in North Carolina.
Quote from: garbon on May 08, 2009, 08:14:22 PM
Del Taco >>>>>>>>> Taco Bell
Baja Fresh/Rubios >>>>>>>>>> Del Taco > Taco Bell
Quote from: garbon on May 08, 2009, 08:14:22 PM
Del Taco >>>>>>>>> Taco Bell
Taco Bell is horrible Tex Mex no doubt.
It is sort of a genre of food all its own.
Quote from: DisturbedPervert on May 09, 2009, 12:35:07 AM
Baja Fresh/Rubios >>>>>>>>>> Del Taco > Taco Bell
If you are going there, then one might as well pull out a taqueria and be done with it.
Quote from: garbon on May 09, 2009, 12:41:23 AM
Quote from: DisturbedPervert on May 09, 2009, 12:35:07 AM
Baja Fresh/Rubios >>>>>>>>>> Del Taco > Taco Bell
If you are going there, then one might as well pull out a taqueria and be done with it.
El Cotixan in Claremont Mesa neighborhood of San Diego :mmm:
Quote from: katmai on May 09, 2009, 12:48:06 AM
El Cotixan in Claremont Mesa neighborhood of San Diego :mmm:
Seriously, when someone pulls out something like Baja Fresh, I really just want to give them a slap. And DP should know better. <_<
Quote from: garbon on May 09, 2009, 12:41:23 AM
If you are going there, then one might as well pull out a taqueria and be done with it.
Depends on the taquerias in the neighborhood, and what you're in the mood for.
Quote from: Oexmelin on May 08, 2009, 04:08:58 PM
How could that be an explanation ?
Because that's the prototypical franchise owner. Local guy, has some cash to invest, wants to run his own business, needs some bank capital to amortize the start up costs.
Something what struck me as odd.
Is that the only American franchise companies in Belgium are McDonalds and Pizza Hut.
Other chains than Subway, KFC, Starbucks and Burger King are represented in almost all neighbouring companies, but not in Belgium. I wonder how it comes, is it the competition of the independent Friteries?
We've got one cmpany based on franchises which started also over here Quick, a burger tent with franchises in France, Catalonia and Algeria.
Quote from: Sheilbh on May 08, 2009, 06:19:24 PM
Quote from: Martinus on May 08, 2009, 05:36:22 PM
I think their success is that they are cheap, and in the price range they offer, you would be likely to find some really low-quality, low-hygenic food outside of a franchise.
That doesn't explain why other franchises haven't been successful. Taco Bell, for example has tried UK expansion (a baby step to Europe) 2 or 3 times and each time they've failed.
Europeans don't do tacos the way Americans do?
I could count on my hands the amount of times I've ever had tacos. Its just not a big food anywhere over here.
One small franchise I can think is maoz. They have one or two stores in several countries now.
Quote from: Archy on May 09, 2009, 04:41:29 AM
Something what struck me as odd.
Is that the only American franchise companies in Belgium are McDonalds and Pizza Hut.
Other chains than Subway, KFC, Starbucks and Burger King are represented in almost all neighbouring companies, but not in Belgium. I wonder how it comes, is it the competition of the independent Friteries?
We've got one cmpany based on franchises which started also over here Quick, a burger tent with franchises in France, Catalonia and Algeria.
Not to harp on this, but Coca-Cola and Pepsi also use a franchise model. I think that is worth keeping in mind because:
1) if they aren't the two largest global companies based on a franchise model, they are both close to being one and two
2) the beverage industry is probably the first to go international with franchises on a significant scale
3) they both have a history of buying foreign competition, which has choked off any other country from going global with beverage franchises in the way they have
4) Pepsi owned and took global some of the most successful restaurants discussed in this thread: KFC, Pizza Hut, and Taco Bell (taco bell to a lesser extent than the other two). Management already had a model and the foreign connections and experience to take those food service companies international. At the same time, McDonald's was and is partnered with Coca Cola when it went international.
Quote from: Tyr on May 09, 2009, 05:18:08 AM
I could count on my hands the amount of times I've ever had tacos. Its just not a big food anywhere over here.
Neither were kebabs or fried chicken. 40 years ago people thought spaghetti grew on trees.
:rolleyes: Spaghetti doesn't grow on trees.
Quote from: alfred russel on May 09, 2009, 12:33:17 PM
4) Pepsi owned and took global some of the most successful restaurants discussed in this thread: KFC, Pizza Hut, and Taco Bell (taco bell to a lesser extent than the other two). Management already had a model and the foreign connections and experience to take those food service companies international. At the same time, McDonald's was and is partnered with Coca Cola when it went international.
I think this strong link with Pepsi is one of the reasons KFC, Pizza Hut and Taco Bell never franchised any restaurant in Italy: Italy is a Coca Cola country, Pepsi never really took place here.
OTOH, given the very large Coca Cola market share, their partnering with McDonald's made that franchise a rather successful one.
And for Pizza Hut, the main reason it never opened in Italy is quite obvious :P
L.
Quote from: Pedrito on May 09, 2009, 05:24:44 PM
And for Pizza Hut, the main reason it never opened in Italy is quite obvious :P
L.
:lol:
One of the Pizza Hut commercials here is supposedly Italians being fooled and liking their new Tuscani pasta. Knowing the wops like I do, they would take one bite and start gesturing wildly in disgust.
The world's largest chain store is run by a Japanese corporation. Does anyone know what it is? (Without cheating)
Quote from: stjaba on May 09, 2009, 07:12:07 PM
The world's largest chain store is run by a Japanese corporation. Does anyone know what it is? (Without cheating)
7-11, though I don't know who owns it or how they came to own it, or how they run it.
So a check seems to indicate that 7-11 uses franchises and was an american company rescued by a Japanese company about 20 years ago, leaving them with a majority stake.
Quote from: Pedrito on May 09, 2009, 05:24:44 PM
And for Pizza Hut, the main reason it never opened in Italy is quite obvious :P
Dunno, I know Italians from the Rimini region who say that the pizza you get from a few Turkish places here is much better than the "original" at home.
Yeah. Italy isn't known for having great pizzas.
Quote from: The Brain on May 10, 2009, 02:20:31 AM
Yeah. Italy isn't known for having great pizzas.
Piazzas, on the other hand ...
Quote from: Syt on May 10, 2009, 02:33:55 AM
Quote from: The Brain on May 10, 2009, 02:20:31 AM
Yeah. Italy isn't known for having great pizzas.
Piazzas, on the other hand ...
Skip the ghetto talk pls.
(https://languish.org/forums/proxy.php?request=http%3A%2F%2F2.bp.blogspot.com%2F_YntY1kyKo4o%2FR7NJ-iYGqXI%2FAAAAAAAACdM%2F8RoY99cuaQw%2Fs320%2Fmike%2Bpiazza.jpg&hash=e59208388128f684ca7a9c8e2eb9025d1cbea95d)
Quote from: Alatriste on May 08, 2009, 12:45:03 AMSubway is completely unknown (I just didn't know they existed until I read this thread)
You don't go much to malls, do you? :P They've been around for years.
Quote from: Pedrito on May 09, 2009, 05:24:44 PMAnd for Pizza Hut, the main reason it never opened in Italy is quite obvious :P
L.
Yet you have Spizzico. :lol: