What do you all know about hybrids? I'm thinking that I'd like to get a hybrid, but I have questions:
- How are hybrids on long car trips?
- How are they on space inside the cars?
- Is there a particular hybrid that is a better value than any others?
- What kind of tax breaks are there for hybrids nowadays?
Thanks in advance! You all know a heck of a lot more about car stuff than I do and like to show it off, so I figured I'd ask. :)
Hybrid Toyota Camry and so far we have been really happy with it. Just a good quality car that has needed little maintenance.
Um we bought a used one so I do not think we got any tax breaks.
It is just like a regular car only we fill it up with gas less. And we have had no problem on long road trips...why would they be any different? It is just a regular car with an electric motor attached to it.
Valmy basically sums up my experience. Better on long car trips as there is less need to stop for gas. I can't speak to something like the Prius but the Civic was just the same size as a typical Civic.
Quote from: garbon on May 24, 2012, 02:32:37 PM
Valmy basically sums up my experience. Better on long car trips as there is less need to stop for gas. I can't speak to something like the Prius but the Civic was just the same size as a typical Civic.
This is the one I've been mostly looking at. The Civic, I mean. How much room does it have inside it? We have two taller guys, so there has to be some leg room in front and back.
I'm not sure if it'd work out - although I have really no frame of reference. At 5'9", I'm the tallest person in my immediate family. :D
I'd guess though if you had the tall people at diagonals from another it could work. Then the seats could be adjusted to accommodate.
I know nothing, but I am looking into buying the cheaper Toyota Prius c since I have no passengers. IIRC, it is the cheapest hybrid with the best fuel efficiency.
Oh and Meri, tax breaks depend on state. For instance, I know that New York still has a tax break for new hybrid purchases.
This side of the pond, hybrid vehicles cost so much more than regular versions of the same car that you'll never recoup the investment. So the only reason to get one is out of environmental concerns.
I was a passenger on a diesel-hybrid recently but didn't notice any difference. Seemed similar in acceleration, no idea about fuel consumption.
Yeah for whatever reason the fact my car was a hybrid did not appear to impact the price at all. We were not out looking for a hybrid, but a nice big car we could haul kids around in. The other similar cars we looked at were not significantly cheaper :hmm:
So maybe there was some sort of government incentive we were not aware of in play.
I think mine might have been $4k more - don't remember now. On a positive, my car is paid off at the end of next month. :showoff:
Quote from: garbon on May 24, 2012, 03:13:33 PM
I think mine might have been $4k more - don't remember now. On a positive, my car is paid off at the end of next month. :showoff:
:jealous:
Is there anything I should keep in mind while looking at cars?
By the way, I'm really interested in a hybrid SUV, but the cost of one of those seems... out of reach. :ph34r:
Quote from: merithyn on May 24, 2012, 03:23:37 PM
Is there anything I should keep in mind while looking at cars?
By the way, I'm really interested in a hybrid SUV, but the cost of one of those seems... out of reach. :ph34r:
Take a long, hard look at both EPA MPG, and what is being reported.
From what I understand some of the most fuel-efficient regular vehicles can get comparable MPG numbers to what hybrids can get in the real world.
Battery weight largely kills any advantage. Not really worth it unless you've got somewhere to plug them and have a short, low-speed commute (and so rarely have to fill up the tank).
If you just want to go green, get a car with an efficient combustion engine. Most manufacturers have made big leaps in that field in the last few years.
Personally, hybrids seem a bit of a dead end to me. The idea is nice in theory, but so far the execution doesn't seem to be more efficient, in the long-term. If I were to go for a car that sips fuel, I'd rather go for a diesel car (but that largely limits you to German cars).
Fuck Hybrids.
Quote from: Iormlund on May 24, 2012, 05:10:23 PM
Battery weight largely kills any advantage. Not really worth it unless you've got somewhere to plug them and have a short, low-speed commute (and so rarely have to fill up the tank).
If you just want to go green, get a car with an efficient combustion engine. Most manufacturers have made big leaps in that field in the last few years.
:huh:
Who plugs in a hybrid battery?
My Wrangler is a hybrid. 4W Hi, or 4W Lo.
Quote from: garbon on May 24, 2012, 09:21:38 PM
:huh:
Who plugs in a hybrid battery?
I wondered the same thing. :unsure:
And specs across the board generally have hybrids pretty close to the same weight as regular combustion engines.
Maybe "hybrid" means something different in Spain? :hmm:
Weight comparisons
http://www.iihs.org/research/topics/pdf/hldi_28.10.pdf
Quote from: merithyn on May 24, 2012, 10:34:53 PM
Quote from: garbon on May 24, 2012, 09:21:38 PM
:huh:
Who plugs in a hybrid battery?
I wondered the same thing. :unsure:
And specs across the board generally have hybrids pretty close to the same weight as regular combustion engines.
Maybe "hybrid" means something different in Spain? :hmm:
Not much to really matter unless your racing it down the 1/4
Quote from: 11B4V on May 24, 2012, 10:43:10 PM
Weight comparisons
http://www.iihs.org/research/topics/pdf/hldi_28.10.pdf
That seems to correlate with what I said. :unsure:
Am I missing your point? Or are you agreeing with me?
Quote from: merithyn on May 24, 2012, 10:49:48 PM
Quote from: 11B4V on May 24, 2012, 10:43:10 PM
Weight comparisons
http://www.iihs.org/research/topics/pdf/hldi_28.10.pdf
That seems to correlate with what I said. :unsure:
Am I missing your point? Or are you agreeing with me?
Point is you are correct. Read Iormlund's post. ;)
Quote from: 11B4V on May 24, 2012, 10:55:22 PM
Quote from: merithyn on May 24, 2012, 10:49:48 PM
Quote from: 11B4V on May 24, 2012, 10:43:10 PM
Weight comparisons
http://www.iihs.org/research/topics/pdf/hldi_28.10.pdf
That seems to correlate with what I said. :unsure:
Am I missing your point? Or are you agreeing with me?
Point is you are correct. Read Iormlund's post. ;)
:blink:
Sorry. Mother of four teenagers and regular poster on Languish. Not used to hearing that... ever.
Don't mind me. Just going to saver it. :wub: :hug: :wub:
Quote from: garbon on May 24, 2012, 09:21:38 PM
:huh:
Who plugs in a hybrid battery?
The Volt was designed for plug-in charging. Since the Volt has a range of ~90mi on straight battery power, Volt owners who make short trips never need to turn the engine on.
I'm no car expert but I think a lay person would call the Volt an electric car and not a hybrid. You plug it in. To me a hybrid means that it runs off of a gas engine and has a battery that charges during deceleration/braking and kicks in to help with acceleration. Is that wrong?
Anyway, I've been driving a Honda Insight for the past two years. I've taken it on a lot of road trips and it does just fine. If I could do it over again I'd buy a Toyota Prius instead for the slightly higher gas mileage. I think it's like 10 MPG more than the Insight.
Height could be an issue. I'm 6'0" and not too far from having my head hit the ceiling. I can't imagine it being very comfortable for someone who is significantly taller. I've never sat in the back seats though.
Quote from: DGuller on May 24, 2012, 05:26:01 PM
Personally, hybrids seem a bit of a dead end to me. The idea is nice in theory, but so far the execution doesn't seem to be more efficient, in the long-term. If I were to go for a car that sips fuel, I'd rather go for a diesel car (but that largely limits you to German cars).
Well I just know my Camry gets 30+ mpg which is significantly better than my Neon, despite the Neon being a smaller car. Also the Camry is nicer (granted it is 5 years newer so it should be) and did not cost that much more.
They are not God's answer to fuel efficiency (they are better but not eye poppingly so) but they are pretty nice and there are some good ones out there.
Quote from: Siege on May 24, 2012, 05:36:00 PM
Fuck Hybrids.
You realise we are talking about cars and not the children of Jews who intermarried right?
Quote from: Valmy on May 25, 2012, 12:06:06 AM
Quote from: DGuller on May 24, 2012, 05:26:01 PM
Personally, hybrids seem a bit of a dead end to me. The idea is nice in theory, but so far the execution doesn't seem to be more efficient, in the long-term. If I were to go for a car that sips fuel, I'd rather go for a diesel car (but that largely limits you to German cars).
Well I just know my Camry gets 30+ mpg which is significantly better than my Neon, despite the Neon being a smaller car. Also the Camry is nicer (granted it is 5 years newer so it should be) and did not cost that much more.
They are not God's answer to fuel efficiency (they are better but not eye poppingly so) but they are pretty nice and there are some good ones out there.
Interesting. My 05 Neon, w/152k, still gets 33-34 on highway. 85% of my driving is highway and not stop and go city driving.
Quote from: Valmy on May 25, 2012, 12:06:06 AM
my Camry
Quotemy Neon
:hmm: My opinion of Valmy has been readjusted.
E: Okay you haven't owned like a Beetle or something too, right?
Quote from: 11B4V on May 25, 2012, 12:13:03 AM
Interesting. My 05 Neon, w/152k, still gets 33-34 on highway. 85% of my driving is highway and not stop and go city driving.
My car is also an 05 Neon but I am usually in stop and go city traffic and so is the Camry. Traffic is really horrible in this city...I mean not LA horrible or anything but bad enough.
Quote from: MadBurgerMaker on May 25, 2012, 12:14:28 AM
:hmm: My opinion of Valmy has been readjusted.
I did not pick either of those cars.
Quote from: Valmy on May 25, 2012, 12:17:33 AM
I did not pick either of those cars.
:hmm: :hmm: :hmm:
Well....okay. Hookem and all that.
E: Austin traffic doesn't need any qualifiers. It's bad. "WHY IS IT THIS BAD GODDAMMIT I JUST WANT TO GO TO FT WORTH AHHHHHHHHH" bad. It's remarkably similar to what I was yelling when I was living in SoCal and driving around on the 5.
Quote from: Fate on May 24, 2012, 11:58:00 PM
I'm no car expert but I think a lay person would call the Volt an electric car and not a hybrid. You plug it in. To me a hybrid means that it runs off of a gas engine and has a battery that charges during deceleration/braking and kicks in to help with acceleration. Is that wrong?
That's a very narrow definition of hybrid. Generally, all cars that have both electric and combustion elements in their powertrain are called hybrid, but there are plenty of differences between a mild hybrid that merely uses the electric motors to accelerate a bit faster, but can't propel the car by itself, to a range-extender like the Volt that uses the combustion engine merely to provide electricity for the electric motors.
Electric vehicles typically do not have a combustion engine at all.
Quote from: DGuller on May 24, 2012, 05:26:01 PM
Personally, hybrids seem a bit of a dead end to me. The idea is nice in theory, but so far the execution doesn't seem to be more efficient, in the long-term. If I were to go for a car that sips fuel, I'd rather go for a diesel car (but that largely limits you to German cars).
You could go for a diesel hybrid. Oh wait, they don't sell those in America. :P
Quote from: Valmy on May 25, 2012, 12:06:06 AM
Quote from: DGuller on May 24, 2012, 05:26:01 PM
Personally, hybrids seem a bit of a dead end to me. The idea is nice in theory, but so far the execution doesn't seem to be more efficient, in the long-term. If I were to go for a car that sips fuel, I'd rather go for a diesel car (but that largely limits you to German cars).
Well I just know my Camry gets 30+ mpg which is significantly better than my Neon, despite the Neon being a smaller car. Also the Camry is nicer (granted it is 5 years newer so it should be) and did not cost that much more.
They are not God's answer to fuel efficiency (they are better but not eye poppingly so) but they are pretty nice and there are some good ones out there.
In the short term, they definitely do get better fuel mileage. However, the higher up-front costs, as well as the uncertainty regarding the life of the battery, make it too much of a risk to me. It's one thing when a battery in the cell phone peters out, it's another thing when it does that in a car. You probably wouldn't want to throw away your car after half a dozen years.
Quote from: Zanza on May 25, 2012, 01:32:55 AM
Quote from: DGuller on May 24, 2012, 05:26:01 PM
Personally, hybrids seem a bit of a dead end to me. The idea is nice in theory, but so far the execution doesn't seem to be more efficient, in the long-term. If I were to go for a car that sips fuel, I'd rather go for a diesel car (but that largely limits you to German cars).
You could go for a diesel hybrid. Oh wait, they don't sell those in America. :P
I don't understand the point of diesel hybrids. My understanding is that gasoline engines are near their optimum efficiency in a narrow range, which is why coupling them with more flexibly efficient electric motor can get you the best of both worlds. However, my understanding is that diesel engines don't suffer from this weakness to nearly the same extent, so what do you win by introducing enormous complexity of the hybrid drivetrain?
Quote from: Ideologue on May 25, 2012, 02:19:55 AM
:(
Did you roll in a Neon followed by a Camry as well?
Huh.
Quote from: Valmy on May 25, 2012, 12:06:06 AM
Well I just know my Camry gets 30+ mpg which is significantly better than my Neon, despite the Neon being a smaller car. Also the Camry is nicer (granted it is 5 years newer so it should be) and did not cost that much more.
They are not God's answer to fuel efficiency (they are better but not eye poppingly so) but they are pretty nice and there are some good ones out there.
That sounds really low to me. I get more than 40mpg from my Jag although that is a diesel.
British gallons and American gallons are not the same. Metric system FTW.
Quote from: Zanza on May 25, 2012, 04:11:01 AM
British gallons and American gallons are not the same. Metric system FTW.
Like this.
The imperial gallon
The imperial (UK) gallon, defined as 4.54609 L, is used in some Commonwealth countries and was originally based on the volume of 10 pounds of water at 62 °F (17 °C). (A US liquid gallon of water weighs about 8.33 pounds at the same temperature.) The imperial fluid ounce is defined as 1⁄160 of an imperial gallon.
The US liquid gallon
This gallon is defined as 231 cubic inches,[2] and is equal to exactly 3.785411784 litres or about 0.13368 cubic feet. This is the most common definition of a gallon in the United States. The US fluid ounce is defined as 1⁄128 of a US liquid gallon.
So, his Jag gets shittier mileage than 40 mpg?
Quote from: Zanza on May 25, 2012, 04:11:01 AM
British gallons and American gallons are not the same. Metric system FTW.
Had no idea, thanks.
Quote from: Baron von Schtinkenbutt on May 24, 2012, 11:47:16 PM
Quote from: garbon on May 24, 2012, 09:21:38 PM
:huh:
Who plugs in a hybrid battery?
The Volt was designed for plug-in charging. Since the Volt has a range of ~90mi on straight battery power, Volt owners who make short trips never need to turn the engine on.
Alright fair, there is that subgroup of hybrids. Odd though to talk about them as representative of the entire class.
Quote from: garbon on May 25, 2012, 07:00:01 AM
Alright fair, there is that subgroup of hybrids. Odd though to talk about them as representative of the entire class.
Who said they're representative of a class? I merely said I wouldn't bother with one that didn't have the option to plug in, since the rest are no better than frugal combustion-powered cars.
Quote from: merithyn on May 24, 2012, 10:34:53 PM
And specs across the board generally have hybrids pretty close to the same weight as regular combustion engines.
Total car weight != powerplant/battery weight. There are a lot of ways for engineers to compensate for the weight of batteries (reduced range, performance, faster degradation of batteries, more expensive materials, etc). None are free.
Quote from: Gups on May 25, 2012, 05:00:18 AM
Quote from: Zanza on May 25, 2012, 04:11:01 AM
British gallons and American gallons are not the same. Metric system FTW.
Had no idea, thanks.
Gosh, you should know the American consumer gets short changed on many things, but then again they aren't paying over $10/£6.00 for their gallon of petrol/gas. :bleeding:
Quote from: MadBurgerMaker on May 25, 2012, 12:18:46 AM
E: Austin traffic doesn't need any qualifiers. It's bad. "WHY IS IT THIS BAD GODDAMMIT I JUST WANT TO GO TO FT WORTH AHHHHHHHHH" bad. It's remarkably similar to what I was yelling when I was living in SoCal and driving around on the 5.
Austin is 8th worst in the country according to: http://scorecard.inrix.com/scorecard/
So quit moving here damnit!
Quote from: Zanza on May 25, 2012, 01:32:55 AM
You could go for a diesel hybrid. Oh wait, they don't sell those in America. :P
Yes, they do. (http://www.insideline.com/volvo/v60/2013/2013-volvo-v60-diesel-hybrid-priced.html)
Quote from: Iormlund on May 25, 2012, 07:12:20 AM
Total car weight != powerplant/battery weight. There are a lot of ways for engineers to compensate for the weight of batteries (reduced range, performance, faster degradation of batteries, more expensive materials, etc). None are free.
If the engineers compensate for the weight of the battery, why does it matter if we're talking battery weight over car weight? When it comes to pushing the car forward, total weight is what counts. Seems a non-issue.
Quote from: merithyn on May 25, 2012, 08:44:22 AM
Quote from: Zanza on May 25, 2012, 01:32:55 AM
You could go for a diesel hybrid. Oh wait, they don't sell those in America. :P
Yes, they do. (http://www.insideline.com/volvo/v60/2013/2013-volvo-v60-diesel-hybrid-priced.html)
From that article, 3rd bullet point at the top:
"The U.S. is not included in the initial market launch of the V60 hybrid."
So here's another article about US sales of an extreme diesel car:
http://www.extremetech.com/extreme/90434-2012-vw-passat-brings-hybrid-beating-diesel-tech-stateside
Quote from: ulmont on May 25, 2012, 08:50:34 AM
So here's another article about US sales of a diesel hybrid:
http://www.extremetech.com/extreme/90434-2012-vw-passat-brings-hybrid-beating-diesel-tech-stateside
:o
I want! :mmm:
I just hope I score another job this summer, so all the cash I've stored away I can blow on tricking out my Jeep, jacking it up 4" and throwing some wide 35" Nigger Stompers tires on it.
Quote from: mongers on May 25, 2012, 07:31:13 AM
Quote from: Gups on May 25, 2012, 05:00:18 AM
Quote from: Zanza on May 25, 2012, 04:11:01 AM
British gallons and American gallons are not the same. Metric system FTW.
Had no idea, thanks.
Gosh, you should know the American consumer gets short changed on many things, but then again they aren't paying over $10/£6.00 for their gallon of petrol/gas. :bleeding:
It is one way of paying taxes and, given the anti-social nature of the car and the size of the country, a good way for the UK.
Quote from: merithyn on May 24, 2012, 02:13:43 PM
- How are hybrids on long car trips?
I would imagine similar to other cars of the same category that are not hybrids. The electric motor usually works until you hit 40-50km, then it switches back to the gaz motor.
An almost all electric vehicle like the Volt would give you better performance on long car trip.
Hybrids are useful for people living in big cities with constant traffic jams or protests like Montreal. At low speed they are silent, so you can jump on the protestors more efficiently ;)
In any case, if you do a lot of long trips and only a few short strips with this car, you are better of with the same non-hybrid model (like regular Camry).
They'll be 8-10 000$ less.
Make sure you put a stick-figure family on the back window. That always delights passers-by who have a genuine interest in your private life.
Quote from: MadImmortalMan on May 25, 2012, 03:04:42 PM
Make sure you put a stick-figure family on the back window. That always delights passers-by who have a genuine interest in your private life.
:bleeding:
Quote from: MadImmortalMan on May 25, 2012, 03:04:42 PM
Make sure you put a stick-figure family on the back window. That always delights passers-by who have a genuine interest in your private life.
(https://languish.org/forums/proxy.php?request=http%3A%2F%2Fm5.paperblog.com%2Fi%2F5%2F50027%2Fme-your-mum-car-sticker-L-eH3mMk.jpeg&hash=29e0e639e405d548c2261578deac1a67c5670bd1)
My mother-in-law had a prius, I liked that car, drives nice and mpg was great, but I would never buy one for myself. Just not my thing. My FJ is already running on eco friendly hydrocarbons. :D
Meri, the question is, why hybrid?
If it is to save the planet, it is worst for the enviroment than a non hybrid car.
MPG? There are better options.
Can't think of any other reason why someone would want one. :lol:
Quote from: lustindarkness on May 25, 2012, 04:18:15 PM
Meri, the question is, why hybrid?
If it is to save the planet, it is worst for the enviroment than a non hybrid car.
MPG? There are better options.
Can't think of any other reason why someone would want one. :lol:
Esplain to me, please. :)
Turbo Diesels love the Earth the most.
Best mpgs, no evil lithium, lighter weight, don't burn coal. If you live in a place that gets most of your residential electricity that way, your Chevy Volt may as well be running on coal.
Quote from: merithyn on May 25, 2012, 08:47:46 AM
Quote from: Iormlund on May 25, 2012, 07:12:20 AM
Total car weight != powerplant/battery weight. There are a lot of ways for engineers to compensate for the weight of batteries (reduced range, performance, faster degradation of batteries, more expensive materials, etc). None are free.
If the engineers compensate for the weight of the battery, why does it matter if we're talking battery weight over car weight? When it comes to pushing the car forward, total weight is what counts. Seems a non-issue.
There's a rather big difference between something being possible, and being a non-issue.
Quote from: MadImmortalMan on May 25, 2012, 04:57:57 PM
Best mpgs, no evil lithium, lighter weight, don't burn coal. If you live in a place that gets most of your residential electricity that way, your Chevy Volt may as well be running on coal.
Yes. Though ICEs have typical efficiencies in the low tens. Power plants, even accounting for transmission losses are much better. However even despite that coal is still the worst way of obtaining energy when it comes to pollution.
I like the idea of encouraging alternative energy options. Even if the hybrids aren't The Best (r) at the moment, I like that by buying a hybrid, I'm paying into the idea that people are interested in finding alternatives to petroleum products. It may cost a bit more, and may not be all that much better at the moment, but it's paying into research for something better next time around.
My dad's Prius has plenty of space but shyte pickup.
Electric drives are already ubiquitous (and much more efficient than ICEs) and have been for over a century.
As for batteries, buying 70 kg of ancient NiMH doesn't really help that much. That tech is just nowhere near good enough, and I doubt a further evolutioned product will be. Fortunately there are more than enough incentives for advanced battery/supercapacitor research, not just for transportation, but for anything from consumer electronics to medical or military applications. Whoever ends up cornering the market with a revolutionary design is going to be absurdly rich.
Quote from: Admiral Yi on May 25, 2012, 05:58:34 PM
My dad's Prius has plenty of space but shyte pickup.
He does alright in the legroom department? I tried a Prius a few moons ago and thought I was squeezed in the legroom department.
Quote from: Ed Anger on May 25, 2012, 06:26:55 PM
He does alright in the legroom department? I tried a Prius a few moons ago and thought I was squeezed in the legroom department.
I feel fine in the passenger seat, and I'm a big strapping buck.
Feels like I'm sitting up kind of high though.
Quote from: merithyn on May 25, 2012, 04:50:45 PM
Quote from: lustindarkness on May 25, 2012, 04:18:15 PM
Meri, the question is, why hybrid?
If it is to save the planet, it is worst for the enviroment than a non hybrid car.
MPG? There are better options.
Can't think of any other reason why someone would want one. :lol:
Esplain to me, please. :)
I'm sorry I don't have time right now to search for it, but I read an article of how the carbon footprint to build a hybrid was crazy, the batteries are terrible for the environment, and you still end up paying more for a vehicle that gives you the same MPG than other vehicles available. All they are selling you with current tech and prices is feelgoodism.
Enjoy!
http://www.fas.org/sgp/crs/misc/R41709.pdf
Quote from: Siege on May 24, 2012, 05:36:00 PM
Fuck Hybrids.
Yes, let's continue to throw money at the Arabs for their oil.
Quote from: MadImmortalMan on May 25, 2012, 03:04:42 PM
Make sure you put a stick-figure family on the back window. That always delights passers-by who have a genuine interest in your private life.
(https://languish.org/forums/proxy.php?request=http%3A%2F%2F4.bp.blogspot.com%2F-kLzfX2ZzpOA%2FT5vbuT2KXLI%2FAAAAAAAAAos%2FwFTvlQDYqkg%2Fs1600%2Fstick%25252520figure%25252520family.jpeg&hash=a75ca3e53bdeb1854ff3448762df66f83c2d285e)