Same general question as the other thread about Britain's greatest foe.
Nominate who you think has been the US's greatest opponent who's lead an army in the field against America.
And I'll pollify it when we've a good dozen or so candidates.
I foresee lots of Civil War tardation in this thread.
Quote from: Tonitrus on April 15, 2012, 09:05:23 PM
I foresee lots of Civil War tardation in this thread.
Great that's not a problem, I worded it hoping to avoid the whole GWB meme.
QuoteNominate who you think has been the US's greatest opponent who's lead an army in the field against America.
Douglas MacArthur.
Obama. He led the youth into destroying America. :(
Quote from: mongers on April 15, 2012, 09:03:50 PM
Nominate who you think has been the US's greatest opponent who's lead an army in the field against America.
And I'll pollify it when we've a good dozen or so candidates.
General Vo Nguyen Giap.
Serious answer, I guess Yamamoto. Does a fleet count?
Quote from: mongers on April 15, 2012, 09:07:04 PM
Quote from: Tonitrus on April 15, 2012, 09:05:23 PM
I foresee lots of Civil War tardation in this thread.
Great that's not a problem, I worded it hoping to avoid the whole GWB meme.
Good. Because that would be bullshit.
Quote from: Ideologue on April 15, 2012, 09:10:53 PM
Serious answer, I guess Yamamoto. Does a fleet count?
Yes, it's in the spirit of the question and besides [Neil] fleets secure all bar continents [/Neil]
Santa Ana
Quote from: Jaron on April 15, 2012, 09:19:14 PM
Santa Ana
At least he would have been after he was recharged from siesta.
Quote from: Sheilbh on April 15, 2012, 09:23:42 PM
Quote from: CountDeMoney on April 15, 2012, 09:09:36 PM
General Vo Nguyen Giap.
Yep.
I can see this poll getting kinda boring, as that would have been my nomination as well. <_<
Quote from: Ed Anger on April 15, 2012, 09:26:50 PM
Quote from: alfred russel on April 15, 2012, 09:25:08 PM
Quote from: Jaron on April 15, 2012, 09:19:14 PM
Santa Ana
At least he would have been after he was recharged from siesta.
And picking the crops.
Those winds are no laughing matter. They've ruined countless lives.
Quote from: Jaron on April 15, 2012, 09:19:14 PM
Santa Ana
Pancho Villa would be the better pick when it comes to Latinos.
Gonna have to say Lee. Without him in the way, McClellan, moron though he was, would have probably won the war early.
General Brock?
Tecumseh?
Albert Kesselring?
That General Peng guy from the Korean War?
Quote from: CountDeMoney on April 15, 2012, 09:33:11 PM
Quote from: Jaron on April 15, 2012, 09:19:14 PM
Santa Ana
Pancho Villa would be the better pick when it comes to Latinos.
I considered that, but exalting a mestizo made my skin itch.
Quote from: jimmy olsen on April 15, 2012, 09:35:58 PM
Gonna have to say Lee. Without him in the way, McClellan, moron though he was, would have probably won the war early.
I think Johnston still could have won...but really isn't this sort of like naming Prince Rupert or Cromwell or Robert the Bruce as the greatest foes Britain has ever had?
:lmfao: Just kidding!
Quote from: Tonitrus on April 15, 2012, 09:39:23 PM
Geronimo.
You could just plug in any Apache leader really. Those guys were pretty formidable.
Generalissmo Jaronimo De Pinochet who will lead the Mormon uprisings in 2020!
Or Bobby Lee.
Quote from: Valmy on April 15, 2012, 09:39:55 PM
I think Johnston still could have won...but really isn't this sort of like naming Prince Rupert or Cromwell or Robert the Bruce as the greatest foes Britain has ever had?
Prince Rupert was an enemy of England. Not her greatest though.
Cromwell was, of course, God's Englishman.
Quote from: Valmy on April 15, 2012, 09:37:47 PM
Tecumseh?
I laugh every time I pass his birthplace. Best Indian treaty EVER.
Quote from: jimmy olsen on April 15, 2012, 09:35:58 PM
Gonna have to say Lee. Without him in the way, McClellan, moron though he was, would have probably won the war early.
NO ACW YOU FAG READ THE THREAD
Quote from: Valmy on April 15, 2012, 09:40:45 PM
Quote from: Tonitrus on April 15, 2012, 09:39:23 PM
Geronimo.
You could just plug in any Apache leader really. Those guys were pretty formidable.
The problem with pretty much every Native American leader, is that their positions were hopeless from the start.
Though Sitting Bull and Crazy Horse did get lucky once.
Last I looked CSA wasn't part of USA so :blurgh:
I am also patiently waiting for our substantial Canadian contingent to start tossing Isaac Brock's name about. :P
Quote from: Tonitrus on April 15, 2012, 09:46:31 PM
The problem with pretty much every Native American leader, is that their positions were hopeless from the start.
Though Sitting Bull and Crazy Horse did get lucky once.
We did not really have much to do with the Apaches until right there at the end when we had gattling and maxim guns and so forth and yet they still scared us to death and would tie down thousands of soldiers with just a few dozen guys. But the Apaches absolutely terrorized the Spanish and Mexicans for over a century. They were some pretty badass dudes. Most Native American groups were pushovers.
Canadians are stupid, they keep trying to tell me that Alaska was once part of Canada :Canuck: :tinfoil:
Quote from: Tonitrus on April 15, 2012, 09:49:24 PM
I am also patiently waiting for our substantial Canadian contingent to start tossing Isaac Brock's name about. :P
I already tossed his name out there :P
I mean the list of foreigners who really gave us trouble prior to the 2nd World War is pretty short.
Quote from: katmai on April 15, 2012, 09:46:40 PM
Last I looked CSA wasn't part of USA so :blurgh:
Abe disagrees.
Quote from: katmai on April 15, 2012, 09:46:40 PM
Last I looked CSA wasn't part of USA so :blurgh:
Um the side that claimed otherwise won the war so they never succeeded in seceding.
Quote from: katmai on April 15, 2012, 09:56:45 PM
Quote from: Tonitrus on April 15, 2012, 09:54:46 PM
Quote from: katmai on April 15, 2012, 09:46:40 PM
Last I looked CSA wasn't part of USA so :blurgh:
Abe disagrees.
And it got him a bullet in the head.
Whereas his opponents got saddled with retards unto their 100th generation.
If Collins was eligible in the other one it has to be bin laden.
So a preliminary list of
Tecumseh
Robert E. Lee
Geronimo
Pancho Villa
Santa Ana
Isaac Brock
Yamamoto
Nguyên Giáp
Peng Dehuai
Osama
Who else?
I say tomato, you say yammato.
Quote from: jimmy olsen on April 16, 2012, 02:40:59 AM
So a preliminary list of
Tecumseh
Robert E. Lee
Geronimo
Pancho Villa
Santa Ana
Isaac Brock
Yammato
Nguyên Giáp
Peng Dehuai
Who else?
Osama and Yamamoto. And strike Lee.
Quote from: Jaron on April 16, 2012, 02:50:55 AM
I say tomato, you say yammato.
I butchered it. :Embarrass:
America's greatest foe.....Itself.
Quote from: Ideologue on April 15, 2012, 09:07:04 PM
QuoteNominate who you think has been the US's greatest opponent who's lead an army in the field against America.
Douglas MacArthur.
:lol: +1
Jane Fonda
Quote from: grumbler on April 16, 2012, 04:50:25 AM
Quote from: Ideologue on April 15, 2012, 09:07:04 PM
QuoteNominate who you think has been the US's greatest opponent who's lead an army in the field against America.
Douglas MacArthur.
:lol: +1
I dunno, he managed to kill a shitload of Chinamen, something a lot of other better generals never had the opportunity to do.
Nomination - Giap
First Runner Up - T.J. Jackson
Second Runner Up - R.E. Lee
Stonewall didn't measure up because he was batshit crazy, Lee because he lost the war. Giap was sane and won his war.
Once again, this time for the retards in the cheap seats: no ACW bullshit.
Jane. Fonda.
Pfft, grow up already, Darth. Might as well say Muhammed Ali.
Quote from: CountDeMoney on April 16, 2012, 07:43:27 AM
Once again, this time for the retards in the cheap seats: no ACW bullshit.
How does a general leading troops against armies of the United States of America not qualify?
Quote from: Viking on April 16, 2012, 07:55:54 AM
Quote from: CountDeMoney on April 16, 2012, 07:43:27 AM
Once again, this time for the retards in the cheap seats: no ACW bullshit.
How does a general leading troops against armies of the United States of America not qualify?
As the Confederacy was illegal, it doesn't count.
Quote from: Tonitrus on April 15, 2012, 09:49:24 PM
I am also patiently waiting for our substantial Canadian contingent to start tossing Isaac Brock's name about. :P
You yanks have already nominated him. :P
Quote from: CountDeMoney on April 16, 2012, 08:10:18 AM
Quote from: Viking on April 16, 2012, 07:55:54 AM
Quote from: CountDeMoney on April 16, 2012, 07:43:27 AM
Once again, this time for the retards in the cheap seats: no ACW bullshit.
How does a general leading troops against armies of the United States of America not qualify?
As the Confederacy was illegal, it doesn't count.
Legal status has nothing to do here. They were traitorous rebels and they were enemies of the USA.
The OP thread starter has specifically said no ACW bullshit, and I have endorsed it.
Now you and Timmay get it through your thick fucking retardo skulls already.
Quote from: CountDeMoney on April 16, 2012, 08:17:16 AM
The OP thread starter has specifically said no ACW bullshit, and I have endorsed it.
Now you and Timmay get it through your thick fucking retardo skulls already.
Well, he's wrong. More americans were killed in battle by the CSA than all it's other enemies combined iirc. It's like discussing the enemies of the Jews while leaving out Hitler.
Quote from: Viking on April 16, 2012, 08:22:30 AM
Quote from: CountDeMoney on April 16, 2012, 08:17:16 AM
The OP thread starter has specifically said no ACW bullshit, and I have endorsed it.
Now you and Timmay get it through your thick fucking retardo skulls already.
Well, he's wrong. More americans were killed in battle by the CSA than all it's other enemies combined iirc. It's like discussing the enemies of the Jews while leaving out Hitler.
You're wronger.
Quote from: Viking on April 16, 2012, 08:22:30 AM
Quote from: CountDeMoney on April 16, 2012, 08:17:16 AM
The OP thread starter has specifically said no ACW bullshit, and I have endorsed it.
Now you and Timmay get it through your thick fucking retardo skulls already.
Well, he's wrong. More americans were killed in battle by the CSA than all it's other enemies combined iirc. It's like discussing the enemies of the Jews while leaving out Hitler.
Heh. That is only true if you count the CSA soldiers as Americans.
What about some of the great Native American leaders, like Techumseh, Joseph Brant or Geronimo?
Quote from: Valmy on April 16, 2012, 08:26:20 AM
Quote from: Viking on April 16, 2012, 08:22:30 AM
Quote from: CountDeMoney on April 16, 2012, 08:17:16 AM
The OP thread starter has specifically said no ACW bullshit, and I have endorsed it.
Now you and Timmay get it through your thick fucking retardo skulls already.
Well, he's wrong. More americans were killed in battle by the CSA than all it's other enemies combined iirc. It's like discussing the enemies of the Jews while leaving out Hitler.
Heh. That is only true if you count the CSA soldiers as Americans.
I was under the impression that on the whole the CSA did not have the policy of killing it's own soldiers.
Quote from: Viking on April 16, 2012, 08:36:38 AM
I was under the impression that on the whole the CSA did not have the policy of killing it's own soldiers.
Tell that to the soldiers under Bragg.
Quote from: Viking on April 16, 2012, 08:36:38 AM
I was under the impression that on the whole the CSA did not have the policy of killing it's own soldiers.
General Pickett disagrees.
But if you take out the CSA losses your statement is false.
Quote from: PDH on April 16, 2012, 08:38:50 AM
Quote from: Viking on April 16, 2012, 08:36:38 AM
I was under the impression that on the whole the CSA did not have the policy of killing it's own soldiers.
Tell that to the soldiers under Bragg.
Well played, sir.
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=bq1f3Hr03fQ
Quote from: Valmy on April 16, 2012, 08:39:48 AM
Quote from: Viking on April 16, 2012, 08:36:38 AM
I was under the impression that on the whole the CSA did not have the policy of killing it's own soldiers.
General Pickett disagrees.
But if you take out the CSA losses your statement is false.
No, the statement remains true. At the time of making the statement my recollection of history was as I described it. Not being certain I did therefore add the "iirc" - interweb lingo for "if I remember correctly"
Though all this dissembling on how the CSA is an enemy opens up the nomination to Grant, Sherman, Sheridan and Thomas.
Quote from: Viking on April 16, 2012, 08:44:47 AM
Though all this dissembling on how the CSA is an enemy opens up the nomination to Grant, Sherman, Sheridan and Thomas.
There is no dissembling here. People in the Civil War are not under consideration, because both sides were Americans.
Quote from: Valmy on April 16, 2012, 08:47:15 AM
Quote from: Viking on April 16, 2012, 08:44:47 AM
Though all this dissembling on how the CSA is an enemy opens up the nomination to Grant, Sherman, Sheridan and Thomas.
There is no dissembling here. People in the Civil War are not under consideration, because both sides were Americans.
Treasonous rebels in armed insurrection against the lawful government and constitution of the Uniteds states do not get to count as foes of america?
Quote from: Valmy on April 16, 2012, 08:47:15 AM
Quote from: Viking on April 16, 2012, 08:44:47 AM
Though all this dissembling on how the CSA is an enemy opens up the nomination to Grant, Sherman, Sheridan and Thomas.
There is no dissembling here. People in the Civil War are not under consideration, because both sides were Americans.
Rebels only get to be considered enemies if they win?
Gah.
Why not just accept that, for whatever reason, the topic here is the non-Civil War enemies of America? :lol:
Quote from: Valmy on April 16, 2012, 08:47:15 AMThere is no dissembling here. People in the Civil War are not under consideration, because both sides were Americans.
But they were traitors. You were fighting a nation of Tokyo Rose. If Washington counts for the Brits then Lee should count for the Americans.
Quote from: Malthus on April 16, 2012, 10:00:34 AM
Gah.
Why not just accept that, for whatever reason, the topic here is the non-Civil War enemies of America? :lol:
I guess the concept is just too complex or something.
Quote from: Sheilbh on April 16, 2012, 10:03:07 AM
But they were traitors. You were fighting a nation of Tokyo Rose. If Washington counts for the Brits then Lee should count for the Americans.
Lee and the other Confederates are still considered national heroes despite the technical fact they were traitors. I doubt there are too many statues of Washington in Blighty.
Any list of top American generals of all time is going to have guys like Longstree and Jackson and Lee.
Quote from: Valmy on April 16, 2012, 10:05:10 AM
Lee and the other Confederates are still considered national heroes despite the technical fact they were traitors. I doubt there are too many statues of Washington in Blighty.
(https://languish.org/forums/proxy.php?request=http%3A%2F%2Fi.dailymail.co.uk%2Fi%2Fpix%2F2012%2F04%2F15%2Farticle-0-0A1F67F4000005DC-249_306x423.jpg&hash=d9edd02521141c7fc635a4bb3143968ca92f121b)
Outside the National Gallery in Trafalgar Square :P
Quote from: Valmy on April 16, 2012, 10:05:10 AM
I doubt there are too many statues of Washington in Blighty.
There is one in London.
DAMN YOU SHEILBH
Quote from: Sheilbh on April 16, 2012, 10:06:31 AM
Outside the National Gallery in Trafalgar Square :P
It was because he favored the British over the French as President isn't it? <_<
Quote from: Viking on April 16, 2012, 08:54:13 AM
Quote from: Valmy on April 16, 2012, 08:47:15 AM
Quote from: Viking on April 16, 2012, 08:44:47 AM
Though all this dissembling on how the CSA is an enemy opens up the nomination to Grant, Sherman, Sheridan and Thomas.
There is no dissembling here. People in the Civil War are not under consideration, because both sides were Americans.
Treasonous rebels in armed insurrection against the lawful government and constitution of the Uniteds states do not get to count as foes of america?
If that's the case, then Cromwell is the greatest enemy the English had ever encountered, because he beat their asses.
Quote from: Valmy on April 16, 2012, 10:09:49 AM
Quote from: Sheilbh on April 16, 2012, 10:06:31 AM
Outside the National Gallery in Trafalgar Square :P
It was because he favored the British over the French as President isn't it? <_<
:lol: I've no idea to be honest. We've got statues of Gandhi and Nehru too. And Smuts who wasn't always terribly pro-British.
QuoteIf that's the case, then Cromwell is the greatest enemy the English had ever encountered, because he beat their asses.
Cromwell was God's Englishman. He beat the treasonous rebels against the English constitution. Prince Rupert wasn't good enough to make the top 5 :P
Quote from: Malthus on April 16, 2012, 10:00:34 AM
Gah.
Why not just accept that, for whatever reason, the topic here is the non-Civil War enemies of America? :lol:
That discussion is about as interesting as one on the non-decepticon enemies of Optimus Prime.
Quote from: Viking on April 16, 2012, 10:16:15 AM
Quote from: Malthus on April 16, 2012, 10:00:34 AM
Gah.
Why not just accept that, for whatever reason, the topic here is the non-Civil War enemies of America? :lol:
That discussion is about as interesting as one on the non-decepticon enemies of Optimus Prime.
Heh, you are one of the all-Civil-War-all-the-time fanbois? :lol:
Fuck you mongers, have me siding with Timmay and Viking in a thread. :ultra:
Quote from: CountDeMoney on April 16, 2012, 07:32:56 AM
I dunno, he managed to kill a shitload of Chinamen, something a lot of other better generals never had the opportunity to do.
A better (hell, even competent) general in his place would have killed a fuckton more, and not have had MacArthur's butcher's bill.
Quote from: Malthus on April 16, 2012, 10:00:34 AM
Gah.
Why not just accept that, for whatever reason, the topic here is the non-Civil War enemies of America? :lol:
Because they know fuck-all about American military history barring the ACW? :lol:
'Tards gotta 'tard, and gotta 'tardbitch all the time as they 'tard.
Freemasonry.
Quote from: Ideologue on April 15, 2012, 09:07:04 PM
QuoteNominate who you think has been the US's greatest opponent who's lead an army in the field against America.
Douglas MacArthur.
Well he crushed the hell out of the Bonus Army.
Quote from: Malthus on April 16, 2012, 10:19:19 AM
Quote from: Viking on April 16, 2012, 10:16:15 AM
Quote from: Malthus on April 16, 2012, 10:00:34 AM
Gah.
Why not just accept that, for whatever reason, the topic here is the non-Civil War enemies of America? :lol:
That discussion is about as interesting as one on the non-decepticon enemies of Optimus Prime.
Heh, you are one of the all-Civil-War-all-the-time fanbois? :lol:
No, I am one of the "the CSA counts as one of the enemies of the USA"'tards.
Washington led a treasonous army against his King.
Why is Osama a legit pick, but Lee isn't?
:bleeding:
Quote from: DGuller on April 16, 2012, 07:39:03 PM
Why is Osama a legit pick, but Lee isn't?
Who says bin Laden is a legitimate pick? He doesn't meet the criteria. He is a political leader, not a military one. Kaiser Wilhelm doesn't qualify, either.
Thanks to Timmay and Viking E. Lee, this thread has run its course, like so much diarrhea down Mongers' leg.
Quote from: grumbler on April 16, 2012, 08:05:36 PM
Who says bin Laden is a legitimate pick? He doesn't meet the criteria. He is a political leader, not a military one. Kaiser Wilhelm doesn't qualify, either.
Well, somebody's been coordinating the insurgencies in Afghanistan & Iraq and could be considered a candidate. Though I think the comment may have been more a dismissal of Collins than a vote for Osama.
Quote from: Peter Wiggin on April 17, 2012, 12:56:41 AM
Well, somebody's been coordinating the insurgencies in Afghanistan & Iraq and could be considered a candidate. Though I think the comment may have been more a dismissal of Collins than a vote for Osama.
The Collins issue was decided by the people who made the rules, so is settled and moot anyway.
The guy who'd been coordinating the insurgency in Afghanistan was Mullah Abdul Ghani Baradar. No one was coordinating the insurgency in iraq; there were a number of independent insurgecies. No one in either insurgency would be rated "America's Greatest Foe," though I suppose you could nominate one or more of them, if you want, this being just the nomination thread.
Giap is going to win any voting on this running away, so I am not sure why the thread was even started. Someone with a knowledge of history would have made the thread "Nomination Thread For Poll Of America's Second-greatest Foe after Giap." In that thread, maybe Ghani Baradar could get some traction. But Osama bin Laden wouldn't be eligible even in that thread.