QuoteJean-Luc Mélenchon: the poetry-loving pitbull galvanising the French elections
Angelique Chrisafis joins charismatic hard-left firebrand Jean-Luc Mélenchon on the presidential campaign trail
Angelique Chrisafis in Vierzon
guardian.co.uk, Friday 6 April 2012 14.54 BST
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Jean-Luc Mélenchon delivers a campaign speech in Grigny, near Paris. Photograph: Bertrand Langlois/AFP/Getty Images
In packed agricultural hanger in a rural town in central France, an enraptured crowd raised their fists and chanted: "Resistance! Resistance!" On stage, arms flung wide, sweat pouring down his face, stood the charismatic, hard-left firebrand hailed as the best orator of the presidential campaign. "The French Revolution of 1789 hasn't breathed its last!" roared Jean-Luc Mélenchon, the poetry-loving pitbull of anti-capitalism. "If Europe is a volcano, France is the crater of all European revolutions!"
Mixing brute rage with killer, comic one-liners about the French political class, Mélenchon whipped up the crowd with promises of a civic insurrection to crush aristocracy and privilege. Hundreds who could not fit into the hall stood freezing in the car-park watching a live feed on a video screen, waving red banners and tricolour flags. "Welcome to Mélenchon-mania," beamed a student at her first ever rally.
Mélenchon, a former Socialist minister, has emerged as the tub-thumping philosopher-leader of the radical left. His sharp rise in the polls has seen him hailed as the "great revelation" of the French presidential campaign. He has leapfrogged the extreme right's Marine Le Pen to become the "third man" in the presidential race behind Nicolas Sarkozy and François Hollande.
His ideas include a 100% fat-cat tax, where the state will confiscate any earnings over £300,000. He wants a return to full pensions for everyone from the age of 60, a 20% hike in the minimum wage, a cap on maximum salaries and the nationalisation of big energy companies. He says the US is the biggest international threat in the world.
His supporters say he is the great hope for a banker-bashing revolution that will transform the face of Europe and reinvent leftwing politics. His detractors say his promises would bankrupt France. Laurence Parisot, head of France's business-leaders's union, likened Mélenchon to the guillotine-happy revolutionaries of France's blood-soaked Reign of Terror.
Some say the Mélenchon frenzy is good for the left, boosting its overall score. Others who want the moderate Socialist Hollande to hang onto his lead over the rightwing Sarkozy warn that his firebrand promises risk splitting the leftwing vote in the crucial first round on 22 April.
Crisscrossing France from open-air rally to campaign meeting, while taking out a loan to pay for more video screens for the overspill at his packed gatherings, Mélenchon let the Guardian travel with him. "I'm dangerous!" he growled by way of an introduction. "Dangerous for financial interests, and dangerous for the oligarchy in France and Europe."
Crushing fat cat pay is pretty simple, he explained. "Anything above €360,000, we take it all. The tax bracket will be 100%. People say to me, that's ideological. I say too right it is. It's a vision of society. Just as we won't allow poverty in our society, we won't allow the hyper-accumulation of riches. Money should not be accumulated but circulated, invested, spent for the common good."
Will rich people flee France, as his critics warn? "If they do, no problem. Bye bye," he smiled.
He reasons that if the top tier of French bosses left, their deputies would take over. Not to mention another Mélenchon proposal - now also taken up by Sarkozy himself - that any tax exile would have to pay the difference back to the French state. "So there's no point leaving, because we'll catch you. If they don't pay, we'll seize what they own."
"Look, we have to smash this prejudice that the rich are useful just because they're rich," he said.
"Capitalist propaganda always managed to make people think the markets' interests were humanity's interests." For too long people have been made to feel that they were some kind of drain or problem for expecting free education, free healthcare or being able to stop working when they were old and spent, he added.
Mélenchon, 60, a one-time Trotskyist and former teacher, spent 30 years in the Socialist party, where he served as a minister and was once the youngest ever senator. He quit in 2008, arguing the party wasn't properly leftwing. He founded his own radical left Parti de Gauche and is now running for president for a leftist coalition, the Front de Gauche. His coalition includes the once powerful Communist party, which scored less than 2% in the last presidential vote, and who behind Mélenchon are now hoping for a renaissance.
Part of his campaign success - he recently brought the Place de la Bastille in Paris to a stand-still by drawing a crowd of tens of thousands - is rage at the financial crisis, but also his pantomine charm as a rabid attack dog against the French political elite, media and powers that be. In his trademark red tie, his explosive performances in TV debates and virulent jibes at his arch-nemisis Le Pen have become the stuff of campaign legend. Fighting Le Pen for the working class and protest vote, he has called her "a bat", "half-demented" and a "dark presence" likened to Dracula. Last autumn he also accused Hollande of being a "pedal boat captain", which has been the longest running gag of the presidential campaign so far. Sarkozy has used Mélenchon's charisma as a stick to beat what he calls a "bland" Hollande.
Mélenchon, the man who defends the proletariat, is sitting in a first-class train carriage, chewing strawberry sweets. He sees no contradiction in travelling in comfort, saying he earns a decent wage as an MEP, doesn't own a car, avoids flying. Even if he has got a Paris flat and a house in the country, he says he has simple tastes. "I don't have much imagination for spending money."
He says just because a politician earns a comfortable wage doesn't mean they should shut their eyes to the "ocean of misery in the world". "I don't pretend to be anything other than what I am - an intellectual with a good income. But I've chosen my camp."
He lampoons the Socialist party for not breaking with capitalism and instead falling for "the illusion that there could be a good capitalism". He says that just as state communism has collapsed, social democracy has collapsed — the death-knell was Greece's prime minister George Papandreou, head of the Socialist International "who was attacked by international finance and didn't last an hour".
Mélenchon says his Parti de Gauche has emerged "at a time of renaissance and reorganisation of the progressive camp on the ruins of social democracy and state communism."
He says he likes a good "fight". He was famously at the centre of the French left's bloodiest internal war, the 2005 referendum on the European constitution. From inside the Socialist party, Mélenchon championed the no vote, against Hollande and the party leadership. France voted no and Mélenchon regrets that the political class swept aside a result it didn't want to hear. "That's a scar that has never healed. In democracy it's very dangerous to take people for imbeciles. They aren't."
His detractors say he is France-centric and anti-European. As an MEP, he disagrees, saying he's pro-Europe and pro-euro - "we can't have a European minimum wage without it" - but against the domination of Europe by economic liberalism and the free market. He lampoons the EU's fiscal treaty on budget austerity, which he would scrap, and "which will end in economic disaster because the whole of Europe will go into recession, including Germany".
But the principle danger is the world today is the US. "The Americans don't have a good press in our country and I take it upon myself to lead the scepticism that their behaviour elicits." He says the US is in "a crisis of hegemony", and that "their currency is sick and they're trying to defend it by every means possible, keeping it as a world reserve currency that allows them to live off the rest of the world's credit".
He adds: "The US's only comparative advantage today is its military. It's dangerous because it's a wounded beast." He would take France out of Nato.
Mélenchon's critics have called him a "little Chávez a la française", saying he's a friend of Castro's Cuba or favours China over the Tibet struggle. He brushes this aside, saying Tibet "is used as a pretext to put permanent pressure on Beijing, which reacts like the authoritarian government that it is". Of the Dalai Lama, he says: "I'm hostile to theocracy. I don't agree with religion in politics." But he adds: "I've never been a partisan of violence against anyone."
Mélenchon's supporters are expected to transfer to Hollande en masse in the second round run-off vote, as the broad French left wants above all to eject Sarkozy. Mélenchon claims he is not seeking a seat in a leftwing government in exchange for negotiations over support. But Sarkozy likes to raise the spectre of the moderate Hollande "held hostage" to Mélenchon's hard-left ideas.
Meanwhile, Mélenchon has no intention to tone down his campaign or his anger. "You can't present a programme like mine with the face of a sweet little boy taking his first communion," he says. And then his train arrives at the next rally destination. "Onward, friends!" he cries to his team as they step onto the platform.
Aux armes citoyens! :w00t: :frog: :mmm:
Admittedly his rise in the polls has been from 5% to 15%, but he looks to have overtaken the FN and Bayrou.
:D
Marseillaise and Internationale played during his meetings :lol: He should listen to the respective lyrics, they are kind of antithetic ;)
Cuba is not a dictatorship according to him as well :)
Cool. I prefer my far lefties to be honest & up-front about their views.
I wonder if saying your country is a crater has a different connotation in French then it does in English.
The US as the international threat is getting old. So is demanding pensions for everyone. We need a new dynamic logio-political epistemology.
The guy sounds like Huey Long.
Quotethe death-knell was Greece's prime minister George Papandreou, head of the Socialist International "who was attacked by international finance and didn't last an hour".
:lol: International finance is going to lose billions and the whole system is fracturing but I guess anything to take down one socialist leader of a podunk little nothing country.
That's hilarious. :lol:
Stories like this are a good reminder that the American electorate is not uniquely stupid/crazy. It's just that we subsume our crazy within the two major parties, while the euros give the crazies their own parties.
Quote from: derspiess on April 06, 2012, 10:15:30 AM
Cool. I prefer my far lefties to be honest & up-front about their views.
:hug:
How much salary does a MEP get?
And what the hell is an agricultural hanger?
Quote from: Admiral Yi on April 06, 2012, 03:46:44 PM
How much salary does a MEP get?
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Member_of_the_European_Parliament#Salary
QuoteHowever, in July 2005 the Council agreed to a single statute for all MEPs, following a proposal by the Parliament. Thus, since the 2009 elections, all MEPs receive a basic yearly salary of 38.5% of a European Court judge's salary - being around €84,000.
Sounds like a pretty cushy job.
Being an MEP seems sorta like being a member of the of one of the various legislative bodies of the Holy Roman Empire.
I guess it is only fitting the continent that brought us history's weirdest Empire is not bringing us history's weirdest Republic.
Wow, reading some of that is pretty shocking. And he has fans listening, and enraptured of his ideas! Scary stuff.
Meh. I'd send the Armada to all those tiny tax haven archipielagos.
Quote from: Duque de Bragança on April 06, 2012, 09:57:33 AM
Cuba is not a dictatorship according to him as well :)
You know, I love me some Sarkozy, but I have to admit: I like this guy.
Quote"Look, we have to smash this prejudice that the rich are useful just because they're rich," he said.
Awesome.
QuoteHis detractors say he is France-centric and anti-European.
Awesomer.
QuoteBut the principle danger is the world today is the US. "The Americans don't have a good press in our country and I take it upon myself to lead the scepticism that their behaviour elicits." He says the US is in "a crisis of hegemony", and that "their currency is sick and they're trying to defend it by every means possible, keeping it as a world reserve currency that allows them to live off the rest of the world's credit".
He adds: "The US's only comparative advantage today is its military. It's dangerous because it's a wounded beast."
HEY NOW
You know, if the Tsar had actually killed Lenin.....
Quote from: CountDeMoney on April 06, 2012, 08:02:17 PM
Quote from: Duque de Bragança on April 06, 2012, 09:57:33 AM
Cuba is not a dictatorship according to him as well :)
You know, I love me some Sarkozy, but I have to admit: I like this guy.
I love any candidate running on a 1789 platform. Plus his arguments with Le Pen are magnificent. Responding to being called the 'useful idiot of the system' she said that her obsession with foreigners is 'half-demented' :lol:
Edit: For example: 'In a Revolution, there are no nice bits and nasty bits. It is a whole unto itself! Yes, there may be mistakes and failures - but oh, how marvellous, how glorious, how splendid, how extraordinary, how luminous a story for humankind!' :mmm:
I like this too 'France is not a Western country, it is a universalist country' :lol:
It's rolling on, though. He got a crowd of 70 000 in a rainy Toulouse.
It'll be interesting, after the first round, to see the social makeup of his vote.
Meanwhile Sarko's campaigns been unhappy with the perception of Germany running Europe. So Juppe's promised that if Sarko wins he'll put France back in the driving seat and create 'a new Europe...a Europe of borders...a Europe that protects.' He's not just promising to renegotiate Schengen but to change trade rules to protect Europe from this 'profoundly new world we face'.
finally someone that would run france into the ground.
Next up: disbanding france.
Quote from: Sheilbh on April 07, 2012, 12:52:58 AM
Quote from: CountDeMoney on April 06, 2012, 08:02:17 PM
Quote from: Duque de Bragança on April 06, 2012, 09:57:33 AM
Cuba is not a dictatorship according to him as well :)
You know, I love me some Sarkozy, but I have to admit: I like this guy.
I love any candidate running on a 1789 platform.
Amen, brother.
QuoteI like this too 'France is not a Western country, it is a universalist country' :lol:
If only more nations took that attitude.
QuoteMeanwhile Sarko's campaigns been unhappy with the perception of Germany running Europe. So Juppe's promised that if Sarko wins he'll put France back in the driving seat and create 'a new Europe...a Europe of borders...a Europe that protects.' He's not just promising to renegotiate Schengen but to change trade rules to protect Europe from this 'profoundly new world we face'.
You people over there will never get along with one another. It's beautiful to see.
QuoteBut the principle danger is the world today is the US. "The Americans don't have a good press in our country and I take it upon myself to lead the scepticism that their behaviour elicits." He says the US is in "a crisis of hegemony", and that "their currency is sick and they're trying to defend it by every means possible, keeping it as a world reserve currency that allows them to live off the rest of the world's credit".
He adds: "The US's only comparative advantage today is its military. It's dangerous because it's a wounded beast."
HEY NOW
[/quote]
:nelson:
He's just mad because they are just a bar band now and cant hack it as a headliner.
Quote from: 11B4V on April 07, 2012, 10:16:39 AM
:nelson:
He's just mad because they are just a bar band now and cant hack it as a headliner.
Who wouldn't be a little upset at being overshadowed by America?
(https://languish.org/forums/proxy.php?request=http%3A%2F%2Fimages.45cat.com%2Famerica-lonely-people-warner-bros-2.jpg&hash=f5ac6b0517a65eb49f6aa6498683786f825fd49f)
I'm not sure where his surge in the polls is coming from, but my feeling is from working class folks who've had enough of Le Pen's hateful shit.
I'll take a true lefty over a fascist polling at 15% any day.
Quote from: Sheilbh on April 07, 2012, 12:52:58 AM
Quote from: CountDeMoney on April 06, 2012, 08:02:17 PM
Quote from: Duque de Bragança on April 06, 2012, 09:57:33 AM
Cuba is not a dictatorship according to him as well :)
You know, I love me some Sarkozy, but I have to admit: I like this guy.
I love any candidate running on a 1793 platform.
FYP
Are you a true Jacobine ? I actually approve of his suggested end of special status for Elsaß-Mosel (
laïcité über alles at last ! :)
Comte Largent
He's pro-chinese btw (Red variety)
Quote from: Zoupa on April 07, 2012, 09:21:02 PM
I'm not sure where his surge in the polls is coming from, but my feeling is from working class folks who've had enough of Le Pen's hateful shit.
I'll take a true lefty over a fascist polling at 15% any day.
:thumbsup:
Quote from: Zoupa on April 07, 2012, 09:21:02 PM
I'm not sure where his surge in the polls is coming from, but my feeling is from working class folks who've had enough of Le Pen's hateful shit.
I'll take a true lefty-demagog over a true-righty demagog polling at 15% any day.
FYP
As for hateful shit, he's pretty good at it, for instance vs Lithuanians.
I'll take the fascist.
Quote from: Zoupa on April 07, 2012, 09:21:02 PM
I'll take a true lefty over a fascist polling at 15% any day.
that's like taking a turd instead of a turd. In the end all you have a bag of shit.
Quote from: derspiess on April 08, 2012, 10:35:24 AM
Yeah. Better uniforms.
One Fascist regime gets a decent designer and everyone forgets the horrors they foist upon us:
(https://languish.org/forums/proxy.php?request=http%3A%2F%2F27.media.tumblr.com%2Ftumblr_m1r57vFEMU1rntzw8o1_500.jpg&hash=d8d450a4f1c228a804613d095bfaf73641603463)
(https://languish.org/forums/proxy.php?request=http%3A%2F%2Fwww.spartacus.schoolnet.co.uk%2FPfascistsP.jpg&hash=2332b9d7ad4975aeedc588ef08c81c962597a5ae)
(https://languish.org/forums/proxy.php?request=http%3A%2F%2Fwww.presseurop.eu%2Ffiles%2Fimages%2Farticle%2Fmilitants-jobbik_1.jpg%3F1245084586&hash=7316a8d44d1af9fab805ac8a1945724a7b5e8934)
And I haven't even started on Volkisch costumes :bleeding:
Quote from: derspiess on April 08, 2012, 10:35:24 AM
Quote from: Ed Anger on April 08, 2012, 06:40:20 AM
I'll take the fascist.
Yeah. Better uniforms.
But it brings up the question: in a war would a French fascist run away from himself?
Who's the shiny belt buckle brigade?
Quote from: HVC on April 08, 2012, 10:43:29 AM
Who's the shiny belt buckle brigade?
British Union of Fascists.
Quote from: Sheilbh on April 08, 2012, 10:41:56 AM
(https://languish.org/forums/proxy.php?request=http%3A%2F%2Fwww.spartacus.schoolnet.co.uk%2FPfascistsP.jpg&hash=2332b9d7ad4975aeedc588ef08c81c962597a5ae)
Star Wars Empire fanboi convention?
(https://languish.org/forums/proxy.php?request=http%3A%2F%2Fwww.tk1991.com%2Fimages%2Fofficer04.jpg&hash=78329e93931acb0ea32b8b4076087e4f02a816aa)
(https://languish.org/forums/proxy.php?request=http%3A%2F%2Fi.imgur.com%2FjdTiV.jpg&hash=a244c02b40edffa078a086f09c36666d4c0a605a)
The American version.
Nazis had pretty shitty civilian uniforms too.
Are those Wops in the top photo Shelf?
If the BUF uniforms were good enough for Palpatine, they're good enough for me.
Quote from: Neil on April 08, 2012, 12:43:42 PM
If the BUF uniforms were good enough for Palpatine, they're good enough for me.
They look like they just stole the clothing of a group of mimes or acrobats.
Quote from: Admiral Yi on April 08, 2012, 12:36:35 PM
Nazis had pretty shitty civilian uniforms too.
Are those Wops in the top photo Shelf?
Yeah the March on Rome Fascists.
Quote from: Sheilbh on April 08, 2012, 12:56:04 PM
Quote from: Admiral Yi on April 08, 2012, 12:36:35 PM
Nazis had pretty shitty civilian uniforms too.
Are those Wops in the top photo Shelf?
Yeah the March on Rome Fascists.
which is probably the only day in Italy when the trains did run on time...
Quote from: Sheilbh on April 08, 2012, 10:41:56 AM
One Fascist regime gets a decent designer and everyone forgets the horrors they foist upon us:
that's one more redeeming quality than the communists <_< <_<
The communists could win wars. The Fascists, not so much.
Quote from: Razgovory on April 08, 2012, 02:04:12 PM
The communists could win wars. The Fascists, not so much.
this is, in the case of both communists or fascists not a redeeming factor for either. Given the results.
Quote from: Razgovory on April 08, 2012, 02:04:12 PM
The communists could win wars. The Fascists, not so much.
What makes you think that? Are you completely ignorant of history?
Quote from: Razgovory on April 08, 2012, 02:04:12 PM
The communists could win wars. The Fascists, not so much.
Like in Spain? :lol:
Like in WWII. It was a pretty big fight. Surprised you didn't hear about it. The Spanish fascist got sidelined pretty quickly after Civil War. Not much of a win for them.
Quote from: Crazy_Ivan80 on April 08, 2012, 02:14:48 PM
Quote from: Razgovory on April 08, 2012, 02:04:12 PM
The communists could win wars. The Fascists, not so much.
this is, in the case of both communists or fascists not a redeeming factor for either. Given the results.
The folks in Auschwitz thought it was.
Quote from: Duque de Bragança on April 08, 2012, 06:01:42 AM
Quote from: Sheilbh on April 07, 2012, 12:52:58 AM
Quote from: CountDeMoney on April 06, 2012, 08:02:17 PM
Quote from: Duque de Bragança on April 06, 2012, 09:57:33 AM
Cuba is not a dictatorship according to him as well :)
You know, I love me some Sarkozy, but I have to admit: I like this guy.
I love any candidate running on a 1793 platform.
FYP
Are you a true Jacobine ? I actually approve of his suggested end of special status for Elsaß-Mosel (laïcité über alles at last ! :)
Comte Largent
He's pro-chinese btw (Red variety)
As long as he's rebuilding the guillotine in the Place de la Concorde, I can accept some of his weaknesses.
Quote from: Kleves on April 06, 2012, 12:34:37 PM
Stories like this are a good reminder that the American electorate is not uniquely stupid/crazy. It's just that we subsume our crazy within the two major parties, while the euros give the crazies their own parties.
Is that a good thing? I'd prefer to have crazies out in the open, rather than have them infiltrate the party that can actually be in power (e.g. GOP).
Quote from: Iormlund on April 06, 2012, 07:44:38 PM
Meh. I'd send the Armada to all those tiny tax haven archipielagos.
Your armada has struggled against brigands set up on island backwaters. :bowler:
Quote from: Duque de Bragança on April 06, 2012, 09:57:33 AM
Marseillaise and Internationale played during his meetings :lol: He should listen to the respective lyrics, they are kind of antithetic ;)
Cuba is not a dictatorship according to him as well :)
It would be interesting to see how a populist like this would do if you took off some of the lunatic edges that don't add to his appeal (Cuba, China). Maybe the second round?
What would be more interesting is how he would poll in the 2nd round against Sarkozy.
I think he could win. :ph34r:
Quote from: alfred russel on April 08, 2012, 08:43:00 PM
Quote from: Iormlund on April 06, 2012, 07:44:38 PM
Meh. I'd send the Armada to all those tiny tax haven archipielagos.
Your armada has struggled against brigands set up on island backwaters. :bowler:
They've adapted. These days, they'd just steal all their fish.
Quote from: Zoupa on April 08, 2012, 09:02:44 PM
What would be more interesting is how he would poll in the 2nd round against Sarkozy.
I think he could win. :ph34r:
What's the chances of Hollande signing a 'Programme Commun' for the second round? Also will we get FdG Ministers?
Quote from: Razgovory on April 08, 2012, 03:12:07 PM
Quote from: Crazy_Ivan80 on April 08, 2012, 02:14:48 PM
Quote from: Razgovory on April 08, 2012, 02:04:12 PM
The communists could win wars. The Fascists, not so much.
this is, in the case of both communists or fascists not a redeeming factor for either. Given the results.
The folks in Auschwitz thought it was.
the folks stuck in communist paradise thought is wasn't.
Quote from: Sheilbh on April 09, 2012, 02:53:07 AM
Quote from: Zoupa on April 08, 2012, 09:02:44 PM
What would be more interesting is how he would poll in the 2nd round against Sarkozy.
I think he could win. :ph34r:
What's the chances of Hollande signing a 'Programme Commun' for the second round? Also will we get FdG Ministers?
Hollande is polling between 53-55% for the second round without any major assurances or promises to either the green or communists. At this point, he doesn't need to promise anything, green or red voters will not switch to Sarkozy in any case.
If Melenchon and Sarkozy's numbers in the first round keep rising though, all bets are off.
Quote from: Crazy_Ivan80 on April 09, 2012, 05:17:07 AM
Quote from: Razgovory on April 08, 2012, 03:12:07 PM
Quote from: Crazy_Ivan80 on April 08, 2012, 02:14:48 PM
Quote from: Razgovory on April 08, 2012, 02:04:12 PM
The communists could win wars. The Fascists, not so much.
this is, in the case of both communists or fascists not a redeeming factor for either. Given the results.
The folks in Auschwitz thought it was.
the folks stuck in communist paradise thought is wasn't.
For the most part they were not being exterminated. Also many of them were siding with the Germans.
France :wub:
QuoteAnti-capitalists and Communists
In their own words
Apr 16th 2012, 9:16 by S.P. | PARIS
THE strict rules governing the right to equal airtime for all ten presidential candidates, which have been in place since last week, are based on a commendable principle. But the result, if you watch television or listen to the radio at the moment, gives the impression that France is awash with Communists, anti-capitalists and other revolutionaries.
Three candidates fall loosely into the far-left camp, and therefore between them are allocated nearly a third of all airtime: the Left Front's Jean-Luc Mélenchon, who is backed by the Communists; the New Anti-Capitalist Party's Philippe Poutou, a car-factory worker who took over from Olivier Besancenot, the postman who ran in 2007, and Nathalie Artaud, from the Workers' Struggle.
Together, these three get 14%-18% of the vote, according to the latest series of polls, with the vast majority of that going to Mr Mélenchon. To put this figure in perspective, remember that François Bayrou, the centrist candidate, is polling at around just 9%-11%.
You really need to be here to appreciate the sort of discussions that are currently taking place on serious political programmes. For the benefit of those following from afar, here are some excerpts.
Mr Poutou was on the radio last week talking about his plan to reduce the French working week from 35 hours to 32. The idea, explained Mr Poutou patiently, is "to work as little as possible and to earn as much as possible":
We're told that the 35 hour week is a luxury. Well we think it should be reduced.
He then added:
If it was possible to not work at all, we wouldn't be against that.
Mr Poutou sits squarely on the revolutionary far left, which dreams of overthrowing the capitalist system. So does Ms Artaud, who this weekend denounced Mr Mélenchon for being a mere "vote-catcher" for François Hollande. To this pair, Mr Mélenchon, who spent years as a Socialist Senator but is now backed by the Communists, is merely a harder-talking version of the traditional establishment left. The Communist Party, after all, was until ten years ago part of a formal governing alliance with the Socialist Party at national level, under Lionel Jospin, and has hooked up with the party on various lists at regional and local elections. So it is worth listening closely to the man.
Mr Mélenchon's slogan is "Seize power". His television clip ends with the line:
You see, with the will, we can share out the wealth. The money exists. What needs to be done is to make it available to everybody.
Here is a taste of the man in full flow, at a rally in Clermond-Ferrand, to rapturous applause:
Look the rich in the eye, and tell them not "I'm not dangerous" but "I am dangerous": I'm going to empty your pockets!
And here he is explaining in a TV debate the core of his programme:
The number one question is not immigration or insecurity, the number one question in society is the sharing out of wealth...If I'm elected, we will share it out, and those who don't want to share willingly will share by force.
I could go on, but will leave it at that for now. It may help explain why, outside France, with his 75% top tax rate, François Hollande comes across as an outdated, old-style tax-and-spend leftist. But inside the country, he is seen as a woolly moderate who has embraced austerity politics and the Brussels consensus.
It's interesting to see how the French left doesn't talk about solidarity or social obligation, but simply uses the language and ideals of a mugger.
These guys are thugs, and nothing more.
Quote from: Neil on April 16, 2012, 10:43:04 AM
It's interesting to see how the French left doesn't talk about solidarity or social obligation, but simply uses the language and ideals of a mugger.
They talk a lot about the language of the revolution and I think they're talking in the language of the revolution too. It was always so explicit about violence. They're friends of the people :wub:
Quote from: Sheilbh on April 16, 2012, 10:44:55 AM
Quote from: Neil on April 16, 2012, 10:43:04 AM
It's interesting to see how the French left doesn't talk about solidarity or social obligation, but simply uses the language and ideals of a mugger.
They talk a lot about the language of the revolution and I think they're talking in the language of the revolution too. It was always so explicit about violence. They're friends of the people :wub:
By contrast, our Left are weenies.
We haven't had a positive advocate since the Unabomber. :(
Quote from: Sheilbh on April 16, 2012, 09:54:45 AM
France :wub:
QuoteAnti-capitalists and Communists
In their own words
Apr 16th 2012, 9:16 by S.P. | PARIS
THE strict rules governing the right to equal airtime for all ten presidential candidates, which have been in place since last week, are based on a commendable principle. But the result, if you watch television or listen to the radio at the moment, gives the impression that France is awash with Communists, anti-capitalists and other revolutionaries.
Three candidates fall loosely into the far-left camp, and therefore between them are allocated nearly a third of all airtime: the Left Front's Jean-Luc Mélenchon, who is backed by the Communists; the New Anti-Capitalist Party's Philippe Poutou, a car-factory worker who took over from Olivier Besancenot, the postman who ran in 2007, and Nathalie Artaud, from the Workers' Struggle.
Together, these three get 14%-18% of the vote, according to the latest series of polls, with the vast majority of that going to Mr Mélenchon. To put this figure in perspective, remember that François Bayrou, the centrist candidate, is polling at around just 9%-11%.
You really need to be here to appreciate the sort of discussions that are currently taking place on serious political programmes. For the benefit of those following from afar, here are some excerpts.
Mr Poutou was on the radio last week talking about his plan to reduce the French working week from 35 hours to 32. The idea, explained Mr Poutou patiently, is "to work as little as possible and to earn as much as possible":
We're told that the 35 hour week is a luxury. Well we think it should be reduced.
He then added:
If it was possible to not work at all, we wouldn't be against that.
Mr Poutou sits squarely on the revolutionary far left, which dreams of overthrowing the capitalist system. So does Ms Artaud, who this weekend denounced Mr Mélenchon for being a mere "vote-catcher" for François Hollande. To this pair, Mr Mélenchon, who spent years as a Socialist Senator but is now backed by the Communists, is merely a harder-talking version of the traditional establishment left. The Communist Party, after all, was until ten years ago part of a formal governing alliance with the Socialist Party at national level, under Lionel Jospin, and has hooked up with the party on various lists at regional and local elections. So it is worth listening closely to the man.
Mr Mélenchon's slogan is "Seize power". His television clip ends with the line:
You see, with the will, we can share out the wealth. The money exists. What needs to be done is to make it available to everybody.
Here is a taste of the man in full flow, at a rally in Clermond-Ferrand, to rapturous applause:
Look the rich in the eye, and tell them not "I'm not dangerous" but "I am dangerous": I'm going to empty your pockets!
And here he is explaining in a TV debate the core of his programme:
The number one question is not immigration or insecurity, the number one question in society is the sharing out of wealth...If I'm elected, we will share it out, and those who don't want to share willingly will share by force.
I could go on, but will leave it at that for now. It may help explain why, outside France, with his 75% top tax rate, François Hollande comes across as an outdated, old-style tax-and-spend leftist. But inside the country, he is seen as a woolly moderate who has embraced austerity politics and the Brussels consensus.
yuk, people like that need to be shot. sooner rather than later.
Quote from: Sheilbh on April 16, 2012, 10:44:55 AM
Quote from: Neil on April 16, 2012, 10:43:04 AM
It's interesting to see how the French left doesn't talk about solidarity or social obligation, but simply uses the language and ideals of a mugger.
They talk a lot about the language of the revolution and I think they're talking in the language of the revolution too. It was always so explicit about violence. They're friends of the people :wub:
No they're not. They want to hurt people and retard the development of society.
Quote from: Neil on April 16, 2012, 11:36:59 AM
No they're not. They want to hurt people and retard the development of society.
Disagree. They want power and adulation. They are willing to hurt people and retard the development of society if that's what it takes to get what they want, but they don't consider those elements to be necessities.
Quote from: Neil on April 16, 2012, 10:43:04 AM
It's interesting to see how the French left doesn't talk about solidarity or social obligation, but simply uses the language and ideals of a mugger.
These guys are thugs, and nothing more.
Even the "from everyone according to his ability" part seems optional. :D
Quote from: grumbler on April 16, 2012, 01:19:08 PM
Quote from: Neil on April 16, 2012, 11:36:59 AM
No they're not. They want to hurt people and retard the development of society.
Disagree. They want power and adulation. They are willing to hurt people and retard the development of society if that's what it takes to get what they want, but they don't consider those elements to be necessities.
I don't think that the power and adulation are the ends, I think that they are means. The ends are to hurt people that they don't like.