QuoteYour Favorite Team Doesn't Give a Damn About You
The writer of Sh*t My Dad Says on Exhibit A: The Chargers
By Justin Halpern on March 7, 2012
In the last 20 years, I have only missed seven Chargers games. I watch them every Sunday, and if the game is blacked out locally, I crowd around the radio like it's 1944 and I'm listening to FDR give a speech about the Nazis. Five years ago, when I was waiting tables and barely making rent, I spent three hundred and thirty dollars on an authentic LaDainian Tomlinson jersey. I did that partially because I needed to swap out my Steve Foley jersey after he was shot by the cops, but also because I wanted to show my support for the team I loved. And after this season there is a decent chance that the team I have spent thousands of hours — and way too many dollars — supporting will leave San Diego.
The Chargers have been in San Diego since 1961, and in that time they've established themselves as the Nicolas Cage of the NFL: Every 10 years they seem to pull it together and have a decent showing, but mostly they're just embarrassing to watch. But in the 1994-95 season, they made it all the way to the Super Bowl. Although my dad is from Kentucky, he is a Chargers fan. He moved to San Diego in 1971 and fell in love with the team. He won't wear a jersey, and the first time he saw me in mine he said, "I would never wear a goddamn jersey that belongs to a grown man. That's for children and the woman who is currently fucking that man." But he never misses a game, and follows the team as closely as I do.
For Chargers fans like us, that '94-95 Super Bowl run was a big one. I was 14 years old, and watching the Chargers was my favorite activity that didn't require a box of tissues. My dad and I watched every playoff game in our living room, he sitting in his worn-out brown recliner in a gray sweatsuit, me sporting my Junior Seau T-shirt jersey on our brown couch. For the Super Bowl, we kept the same routine, in hopes the outcome would also be the same. It wasn't. The San Francisco 49ers beat the hell out of the Chargers, 49-26. My father watched silently, and I tried to keep my reactions to screams and fist clenches, but early in the fourth quarter, when Steve Young tossed his record-setting sixth touchdown to a wide-open Jerry Rice, I leaped from my seat on the couch, ran up to a pillow that had fallen on the floor, and kicked it as hard as I could. The pillow ricocheted around the wooden walls of our small living room and landed on top of the mantle, where it knocked into my dad's prized possession: a 50-year-old ceramic jug of Kentucky bourbon that had been handed down to him by his father. My dad had been saving that bourbon for an unspecified special occasion. A few years before, a friend had asked him if he'd had a drink from the bourbon on the night I was born, to mark the birth of his child. "Didn't even think about it," he said. "People shit out babies every goddamn second. That bourbon was crafted with love and patience."
I watched in horror as that pillow knocked into the bottle, which started to wobble slowly toward the edge of the shelf, where it had sat for as long as I could remember. In what felt like slow-motion, I leaped over our coffee table toward the mantle, arms outstretched, but I was too late: It tumbled to the floor before my eyes, shattering into three large pieces, emptying all that precious brown liquid into our rug. In 20 seconds, it was as if it had never existed. I froze, then slowly turned around to look at my dad. The look on his face is a look I've since seen on many of my friends who are parents. A look that says, "I am having serious doubts about my decision to have children." Then, before I could find the words to apologize, he got up and walked out the front door without saying a word. From our living room I saw him walk up the street and disappear into the darkness.
Four hours later, at around 10:30 p.m., I was brushing my teeth and getting ready for bed when I heard the front door open. A moment later, he appeared at the bathroom door, beads of sweat on his forehead.
"Dad, I'm really sorry about — "
"There is not a scale available with which I can accurately measure how much I want you to shut the fuck up right now, but trust me when I say it is in your best interests to do so," he said calmly.
"Okay."
"Okay. I understand you love the Chargers. You root for them; you want them to win. It kills you when they lose. But let me tell you a little story. Back when I was practicing medicine in Oklahoma, there was a doc in obstetrics who used to like to go to titty bars. And there was this particular titty bar not too far from the hospital where he'd go every chance he got. And this was Oklahoma, which ain't exactly the big leagues of titty bars. I shouldn't say that, that's rude. Anyhow, this doc, he got real sweet on one of the strippers there. And he started coming back from lunch and telling everybody how he was sure this girl was sweet on him too, and that she was telling him he was different than the other guys, and blahbitty fuckin' blah. This goes on for a few months. Then, on Valentine's Day, he shows up at the titty bar with a bunch of flowers to ask this stripper to be his girl or whatever. Guess what happened."
"She said no."
"No. He never even asked her, 'cause when he walked in she was grinding her ass on some guy's hard-on. He took a swing at this fella and got a beer bottle to the head, like an asshole. Which, for future reference, is the only way you can get a beer bottle to the head: like an asshole," he said.
"Wow. That sucks."
"Not really, because he was a stupid sonofabitch. What he failed to recognize — that any sane human being would — is that a stripper is always gonna be just nice enough to you to keep you coming back, but at the end of the day, she doesn't give a fuck about you. You're just a hard-on she rubs up on for money. That's her job. And guess what? That's the same goddamn way the San Diego Chargers and any other team feels about you. So the next time you want to get up and kick something, remember this: Your favorite team don't give a fuck about you, so why the hell should you let them ruin your day? Or, more important, destroy a sacred bottle of bourbon?"
I thought a moment. "What happened to that doctor?"
"He became the head of obstetrics. His name's Hal Ashland.1 Good guy."
Today, the Chargers are threatening to move to another city if they don't get a new stadium. Fans in San Diego are calling radio shows and writing angry blog posts, saying that if the Chargers left they'd feel devastated and betrayed. And that behavior is no different than that of most sports fans around the country. Every time our favorite team does something selfish, for purely business reasons, we take it personally. Because we want to believe that they love us as much as we love them. But they don't. They just rub up against whoever has the most money. So if we choose to be Hal Ashland, let's stop getting surprised every time we get a beer bottle to the head.
Justin Halpern is the author of the no. 1 New York Times best-seller Sh*t My Dad Says. He is also partially responsible for the television show of the same name, which you probably hated. His second book, I Suck at Girls (on sale from It Books on May 15, 2012), is a trip through Halpern's complete failures with the opposite sex. And yes, his dad is in it. He's not stupid. Follow him on Twitter at @justin_halpern.
Fair enough.
Does this mean Seedy will shut up about the colts?
Heh, good article, and good advice. I stopped being too enthralled with the local sports teams some years ago. After the Red Sox kept losing World Series, on the rare years they even got that far, and when the Patriots were still stumble bums, sometimes getting to or close to the Super Bowl but never doing it. I became more a Pats fan when Kraft and company took over but I still don't take it so seriously as to get so upset when they lose the Giants, twice in Super Bowls. I say good job Gints!
Quote from: katmai on March 07, 2012, 02:19:19 PM
Does this mean Seedy will shut up about the colts?
When the NFL changes Johnny Unitas' records in the Hall of Fame from "Indianapolis Colts" to "Baltimore Colts", then yeah.
Unless you are a share holder for the Green Bay Packers. Then they care about you %0.0000001 or however much you personally own of them.
Too true. I used to be a big fan of our local team until I too realized this. It's been almost 20 years since that day. Fuck.
The Edmonton Eskimoes and Saskatchewan Roughriders are also owned by their respective communities.
Quote from: Valmy on March 07, 2012, 02:38:02 PM
Unless you are a share holder for the Green Bay Packers. Then they care about you %0.0000001 or however much you personally own of them.
If that. Shares are just frame-able collector's items you get in exchange for a donation to the team.
Having said that, the Packers do seem to be pretty loyal to their fans in general.
I hope they learned their lesson: don't put your most prized possession on the fucking mantel piece, especially if it's fragile and you have young people around.
Quote from: Jacob on March 07, 2012, 02:54:03 PM
I hope they learned their lesson: don't put your most prized possession on the fucking mantel piece, especially if it's fragile and you have young people around.
Better yet, don't allow children in your house.
Quote from: garbon on March 07, 2012, 02:57:41 PMBetter yet, don't allow children in your house.
Alright there Marty.
Quote from: derspiess on March 07, 2012, 02:52:47 PM
If that. Shares are just frame-able collector's items you get in exchange for a donation to the team.
Having said that, the Packers do seem to be pretty loyal to their fans in general.
So how is their board of directors selected if there are no shareholders? :unsure:
probably liek most board of directors, bribes :P
Quote from: HVC on March 07, 2012, 03:32:46 PM
probably liek most board of directors, bribes :P
But they are unpaid...but maybe they just crave the vast power.
Quote from: Valmy on March 07, 2012, 03:50:02 PM
Quote from: HVC on March 07, 2012, 03:32:46 PM
probably liek most board of directors, bribes :P
But they are unpaid...but maybe they just crave the vast power.
but they're usually employed somewhere else, or have ties to people who are. Compensation comitties are a funny you scratch my back i scratch yours type of gig.
Quote from: Valmy on March 07, 2012, 03:29:15 PM
Quote from: derspiess on March 07, 2012, 02:52:47 PM
If that. Shares are just frame-able collector's items you get in exchange for a donation to the team.
Having said that, the Packers do seem to be pretty loyal to their fans in general.
So how is their board of directors selected if there are no shareholders? :unsure:
There are technically shareholders. And if you own shares you are allowed to vote for their board of directors. But you get no dividends, cannot sell the share to anyone else, and the team has the right to buy back at 2.5 cents a share (vs. the $250 per share paid to the team in last year's issue).
More info: http://www.thefiscaltimes.com/Blogs/Business-Buzz/2011/12/11/The-Green-Bay-Packers-Worst-Investment-Ever.aspx#page1
Does bourbon really keep that long? My impression is that hard liquors are not like wine: age doesn't do them any favors. I think that the son did his dad a favor.
Quote from: DGuller on March 07, 2012, 04:46:16 PM
Does bourbon really keep that long? My impression is that hard liquors are not like wine: age doesn't do them any favors. I think that the son did his dad a favor.
:rolleyes: Silly Russian. Liquors keep indefinitely. Bourbon does not age in the bottle like wine. It ages in the barrel. It should taste pretty much the same the day it's bottled as it does 20 years later.
e: ^^ what he said ^^
Quote from: DGuller on March 07, 2012, 04:46:16 PM
Does bourbon really keep that long? My impression is that hard liquors are not like wine: age doesn't do them any favors. I think that the son did his dad a favor.
I don't think it really does
anything in the bottle.
Quote from: derspiess on March 07, 2012, 04:49:17 PM
Quote from: DGuller on March 07, 2012, 04:46:16 PM
Does bourbon really keep that long? My impression is that hard liquors are not like wine: age doesn't do them any favors. I think that the son did his dad a favor.
:rolleyes: Silly Russian. Liquors keep indefinitely. Bourbon does not age in the bottle like wine. It ages in the barrel. It should taste pretty much the same the day it's bottled as it does 20 years later.
My understanding was that they definitely taste worse with age (in the bottle, not the barrel).
Quote from: DGuller on March 07, 2012, 04:56:57 PM
Quote from: derspiess on March 07, 2012, 04:49:17 PM
Quote from: DGuller on March 07, 2012, 04:46:16 PM
Does bourbon really keep that long? My impression is that hard liquors are not like wine: age doesn't do them any favors. I think that the son did his dad a favor.
:rolleyes: Silly Russian. Liquors keep indefinitely. Bourbon does not age in the bottle like wine. It ages in the barrel. It should taste pretty much the same the day it's bottled as it does 20 years later.
My understanding was that they definitely taste worse with age (in the bottle, not the barrel).
As long as the bottle is properly sealed, that is incorrect.
Quote from: MadBurgerMaker on March 07, 2012, 04:53:19 PM
e: ^^ what he said ^^
Quote from: DGuller on March 07, 2012, 04:46:16 PM
Does bourbon really keep that long? My impression is that hard liquors are not like wine: age doesn't do them any favors. I think that the son did his dad a favor.
I don't think it really does anything in the bottle.
I found a... 30 or so year old bottle of Jack Daniels at my parent's place while helping with some cleaning. It was still sealed and stoppered. The bad part? There were some kind of odd floating particles in it. Almost looked like the glass was coming apart in the Jack or something. <_<
Quote from: Benedict Arnold on March 07, 2012, 05:25:18 PM
I found a... 30 or so year old bottle of Jack Daniels at my parent's place while helping with some cleaning. It was still sealed and stoppered. The bad part? There were some kind of odd floating particles in it. Almost looked like the glass was coming apart in the Jack or something. <_<
That sucks. Did you open it and see if that's what it really was? I guess the upside is it was only Jack Daniels and so it's easily replaceable vs a bottle of Louis XIII or something crazy.
I brought it to a local bar for an auction to benefit a guy who had died. It managed to "disappear" prior to the auction, so I never got to find out how it was. :mad:
QuoteI did that partially because I needed to swap out my Steve Foley jersey after he was shot by the cops
:lol:
I have an old bottle of Maker's Mark that's got the same thing in there, BA. It was bottled in 1971.
Quote from: Caliga on March 07, 2012, 07:20:31 PM
I have an old bottle of Maker's Mark that's got the same thing in there, BA. It was bottled in 1971.
Can you try drinking it? I'm curious to see if it kills you.
There's talk the RAMs may leave St. Louis. I wonder if there is a way to get them out quicker.
I liked the article, which I almost didn't read because it was about sports.
If it's glass, I would think it would sink to the bottom.
I don't think I've ever let a bottle of liquor last more than a couple years (and it's not like anyone in my boring family would have ever handed booze down to me), so I can't add anything :(
Quote from: Ideologue on March 07, 2012, 07:47:40 PM
I liked the article, which I almost didn't read because it was about sports.
I've really come to like Football. Since it's about jocks getting hurt.
Quote from: Ideologue on March 07, 2012, 07:47:40 PM
I liked the article, which I almost didn't read because it was about sports.
Communist.
Quote from: Razgovory on March 07, 2012, 07:43:41 PM
There's talk the RAMs may leave St. Louis. I wonder if there is a way to get them out quicker.
Missouri's really not big enough to have two teams.
I really don't like the way American sports are setup so that its normal for teams to just up and move.
Quote
The Chargers have been in San Diego since 1961, and in that time they've established themselves as the Nicolas Cage of the NFL: Every 10 years they seem to pull it together and have a decent showing, but mostly they're just embarrassing to watch
I know nothing about american football but :lol:
Quote from: Tyr on March 07, 2012, 10:56:33 PM
I really don't like the way American sports are setup so that its normal for teams to just up and move.
Same. It's funny how the reaction's the same everywhere though. When Everton proposed moving to a new stadium in Kirkby there was huge outrage because it was 5 miles out of Liverpool city centre :lol:
Sadly we're still stuck in a stadium that isn't really good enough and detracts buyers and there's not really looking like the money for any other plans :bleeding:
Quote from: Tyr on March 07, 2012, 10:56:33 PM
I really don't like the way American sports are setup so that its normal for teams to just up and move.
I wouldn't say its normal, it doesn't happen that often. In fact very few teams moved in the last decade compared to the one before IIRC.
Quote from: jimmy olsen on March 07, 2012, 11:28:40 PM
Quote from: Tyr on March 07, 2012, 10:56:33 PM
I really don't like the way American sports are setup so that its normal for teams to just up and move.
I wouldn't say its normal, it doesn't happen that often. In fact very few teams moved in the last decade compared to the one before IIRC.
But as much as I hate one team moving in the 90s, I adore the fact that one team moved in the teens... :cool:
What does that have to do with a comment about American sports? :huh:
Quote from: Peter Wiggin on March 08, 2012, 12:12:52 AM
What does that have to do with a comment about American sports? :huh:
:rolleyes:
Since the former was a team moving from Canada to America, and the latter was a team moving from America to Canada...
:rolleyes:
It's still kinda like bringing up Real Salt Lake. :P
Quote from: Peter Wiggin on March 07, 2012, 10:42:36 PM
Quote from: Razgovory on March 07, 2012, 07:43:41 PM
There's talk the RAMs may leave St. Louis. I wonder if there is a way to get them out quicker.
Missouri's really not big enough to have two teams.
Well the market area goes beyond simply Missouri. I'm told that Southern Illinois is Cardinal country. I doubt it's also Ram country though. Hell, I don't think
St. Louis is really Rams country. The Chiefs can be a decent team at times. Though Kansas City baseball really shouldn't be mentioned in polite society. St. Louis has an excellent baseball team, but it's football team is just awful. I suppose that's the way of things. Neither town can be good at both. Sometimes they can fail at both though.
I don't watch Hockey and there's no pro Basketball team in the area. Though MU can play a mean game of Hoops.
So gald we don't have this fanchise system in England. The idea that the owners can just move the team hundreds of miles is horrendous. Happened once here to a small team and the outrage was so huge it will never happen again.
Nicely written piece.
Quote from: Gups on March 08, 2012, 04:16:19 AM
So gald we don't have this fanchise system in England. The idea that the owners can just move the team hundreds of miles is horrendous. Happened once here to a small team and the outrage was so huge it will never happen again.
Nicely written piece.
Which team is that? MK Dons?
Quote from: Gups on March 08, 2012, 04:16:19 AM
So gald we don't have this fanchise system in England. The idea that the owners can just move the team hundreds of miles is horrendous. Happened once here to a small team and the outrage was so huge it will never happen again.
Nicely written piece.
MK Dons?
Yep, Franchise FC the most universally hated club in England, still boycotted by most decent fans.
A colleague at work helped set up AFC Wimbledon who started from stratch and have had 5 promotions up to League 2. The club is wholly owned by its fans.
My own club Charlton have had a horrible few years and are now back on the up. We're currently top of League One (division 3). Horrible league but one of the good things is that the fans are much closer to the players and management e.g. they often get the same train to away grounds - on the way back from a win in Exeter earlier this season, they were buying the fans beers...
Quote from: Razgovory on March 08, 2012, 01:16:31 AM
Well the market area goes beyond simply Missouri. I'm told that Southern Illinois is Cardinal country. I doubt it's also Ram country though. Hell, I don't think St. Louis is really Rams country.
From my travels through southern IL it does sound like it's Rams country, just not as strongly as it is Cardinals country. Seems to be a bit of an anti-Chicago vibe down there. You definitely don't see a whole lot of Bears stuff.
STL is definitely a baseball town. The best, in fact.
The football Cardinals should still be in St. Louis. NEIL LOMAX FOREVAH
Quote from: CountDeMoney on March 08, 2012, 11:11:38 AM
The football Cardinals should still be in St. Louis. NEIL LOMAX FOREVAH
Better yet, Chicago. PAUL CHRISTMAN FTW
Quote from: CountDeMoney on March 08, 2012, 11:11:38 AM
The football Cardinals should still be in St. Louis. NEIL LOMAX FOREVAH
They wouldn't have gotten sold if they hadn't sucked so badly.
Gups: with English footie is it just fan culture that prevents teams moving, or are there legal or other barriers?
Quote from: Gups on March 08, 2012, 07:18:54 AM
Yep, Franchise FC the most universally hated club in England, still boycotted by most decent fans.
A colleague at work helped set up AFC Wimbledon who started from stratch and have had 5 promotions up to League 2. The club is wholly owned by its fans.
My own club Charlton have had a horrible few years and are now back on the up. We're currently top of League One (division 3). Horrible league but one of the good things is that the fans are much closer to the players and management e.g. they often get the same train to away grounds - on the way back from a win in Exeter earlier this season, they were buying the fans beers...
Yeah, thats something the modern game really misses.
My grandad pre retirement used to run pubs (nothing special, just standard regular guy's pubs). Back in the 70s he had one over Sunderland way and often got the Sunderland team popping in. One day, shortly after they won the FA Cup....they came in with the trophy. It seemed to be some sort of semi-scam they had going so that people would buy them a tonne of free drinks.
My uncle (who was just a kid at the time) still has this photo of him with a bunch of players and the cup.
I've never really known that, football really exploded and hit the big time in the 90s with the premier league (which had very unfortunate effects for north east football....) but I do remember Sunderland's old ground, Roker Park. In large part it was probally just because I was a kid at the time but it did feel so much more....grander and alive than their current, modern 48,000 seater stadium.
Back when I was living at home I was really getting tempted to start supporting the closest big team to me- Gateshead. They're in the conference (or whatever its called these days). The whole more town to earth feel really appealed. A few years back when Newcastle were in big trouble it seemed a common thing for their fans to talk of defecting.
Unfortunately Gateshead currently play in an athletics stadium which is....less than ideal for football. They're apparently moving to a new,smaller one soon though. Which should be interesting. I hope it has terraces. Probally not.
Quote from: Admiral Yi on March 08, 2012, 06:44:07 PM
Gups: with English footie is it just fan culture that prevents teams moving, or are there legal or other barriers?
I think one issue is whether they keep their place in the pyramid of leagues - the fan-owned team founded in the aftermath had to start in the bottom. MK Dons did keep their place in the league so, presumably, the FA approved it. Though my understanding is that as well as fan anger, the football authorities have more or less said it won't happen again.
It's not an English footie thing though so much as a footie thing. I don't think it's happened in Spain or Italy and it certainly couldn't be allowed in Germany where the fans own 51% of the club - except for a couple of ones that were basically the clubs of company towns, I think Volkswagen has a club.
Quote from: fahdiz on March 08, 2012, 02:06:17 PM
Quote from: CountDeMoney on March 08, 2012, 11:11:38 AM
The football Cardinals should still be in St. Louis. NEIL LOMAX FOREVAH
They wouldn't have gotten sold if they hadn't sucked so badly.
Ah Bill Bidwell.
Quote from: Sheilbh on March 08, 2012, 10:16:43 PM
Quote from: Admiral Yi on March 08, 2012, 06:44:07 PM
Gups: with English footie is it just fan culture that prevents teams moving, or are there legal or other barriers?
I think one issue is whether they keep their place in the pyramid of leagues - the fan-owned team founded in the aftermath had to start in the bottom. MK Dons did keep their place in the league so, presumably, the FA approved it. Though my understanding is that as well as fan anger, the football authorities have more or less said it won't happen again.
It's not an English footie thing though so much as a footie thing. I don't think it's happened in Spain or Italy and it certainly couldn't be allowed in Germany where the fans own 51% of the club - except for a couple of ones that were basically the clubs of company towns, I think Volkswagen has a club.
I wish the US leagues would move to such a system, but no it is unlikely to ever happen, the smaller teams have to be content with US Cup (similar to England's FA CUP)
Quote from: fahdiz on March 08, 2012, 02:06:17 PM
Quote from: CountDeMoney on March 08, 2012, 11:11:38 AM
The football Cardinals should still be in St. Louis. NEIL LOMAX FOREVAH
They wouldn't have gotten sold if they hadn't sucked so badly.
They didn't get sold, the Bidwell's still own the team. :secret:
Quote from: Sheilbh on March 08, 2012, 10:16:43 PM
Quote from: Admiral Yi on March 08, 2012, 06:44:07 PM
Gups: with English footie is it just fan culture that prevents teams moving, or are there legal or other barriers?
I think one issue is whether they keep their place in the pyramid of leagues - the fan-owned team founded in the aftermath had to start in the bottom. MK Dons did keep their place in the league so, presumably, the FA approved it. Though my understanding is that as well as fan anger, the football authorities have more or less said it won't happen again.
It's not an English footie thing though so much as a footie thing. I don't think it's happened in Spain or Italy and it certainly couldn't be allowed in Germany where the fans own 51% of the club - except for a couple of ones that were basically the clubs of company towns, I think Volkswagen has a club.
There's also another factor to consider for how it happened that one time and why it won't happen again. Milton Keynes is quite a unique town. Its the biggest new town around, being founded in the middle of nowhere in the 20th century, well after football in England was well established. As a result it lacked a football team.
I just can't think of any towns in the same situation as Milton Keynes. Our two new towns up in the north east for example fall well within the catchment area for the already pre-existing teams, Washington being part of the Tyne and Wear urban area and Peterlee rather small there's just not much room for another team up here.
Milton Keynes is the only place where there was really a clear market for a new team and no suitable pre-existing team- its more than possible that one of the non-league clubs there could have been built up but in combination with Wimbledon's problems.....it was quite a special situation.
Also, contrast the league situation in the UK to that in the US.
In the US there is such a gulf between the "Premier" leagues and the lower leagues. They don't have the league pyramid in the way we do. They have the majors where all the money is then....some...minor....unimportant....leagues....
Yet at the same time they have a lot more big cities which are capable of supporting a top class team than we do.
They really do seem to have quite strange situation over there from this POV and it does kind of explain all their moving teams. Whilst in the UK we have broad overlapping catchment areas for loads of teams big and small all over the country in the US they just have isolated splodges scattered around.
If US sports were less closed door and there were promotion/relegation systems in place I don't think you would see it so much.
I hadn't thought of the geographical angle but you're right. Most of the time if there's a millionaire who wants his town to have a decent football then there's no need to buy a franchise and bring it to the town, he'll be able to go the Dave Whelan approach and buy the local team and bring them up. And yeah, I can't think of anywhere else like Milton Keynes.
It's possibly part of the reason why college sports are so big in the US? They're more identified and tied with that area, and they cover the whole country far more narrowly I imagine. But I agree it does seem odd from a British perspective because the US could very easily support a multi-league pyramid.
Although I suppose their draft system means it's not like the Premier League where you've got a few top teams and then everyone else is fighting for position mid-table or against relegation (the lower leagues seem far, far more competitive though). Because (from my understanding) the last team gets first pick next time round and the best gets last it means there's more potential for all the teams in the league to do well.
On millionaires bringing up their local teams... The example of Hoffenheim is partiuclarly crazy. A top German team in a town of under 4,000 :lol:
http://news.bbc.co.uk/sport2/hi/football/teams/s/sunderland/8816646.stm
The draft- I've never entirely been able to wrap my head around that one. It makes me wonder....might teams not take a dive one year when they know they have a bad team but know there are some amazing prospects on the horizon which they want to get first pick for?
Quote from: Tyr on March 09, 2012, 12:33:04 AM
On millionaires bringing up their local teams... The example of Hoffenheim is partiuclarly crazy. A top German team in a town of under 4,000 :lol:
http://news.bbc.co.uk/sport2/hi/football/teams/s/sunderland/8816646.stm
The draft- I've never entirely been able to wrap my head around that one. It makes me wonder....might teams not take a dive one year when they know they have a bad team but know there are some amazing prospects on the horizon which they want to get first pick for?
The lower league teams in Baseball and Hockey are basically owned by the major league, while in Basketball and Football the lower leagues are the Colleges.
Sometimes they do take a dive, or at least are accused of doing so.
Quote from: Tyr on March 09, 2012, 12:33:04 AM
On millionaires bringing up their local teams... The example of Hoffenheim is partiuclarly crazy. A top German team in a town of under 4,000 :lol:
http://news.bbc.co.uk/sport2/hi/football/teams/s/sunderland/8816646.stm
Those things tend to end up ugly, though.
Cult club FC St. Pauli had a very benevolent president. Not of the "I'll take them to the Champions League" type, but whenever there was a deficit in the budget he paid it from his own cash. There was some ugly infighting at some point which pushed "Papa Weisener" (as the president was affectionately called) to withdraw his support. The club spent many years getting its finances sorted out again because they weren't used to balancing budgets, cutting corners or economizing.
Quote from: Sheilbh on March 08, 2012, 10:16:43 PM
Quote from: Admiral Yi on March 08, 2012, 06:44:07 PM
Gups: with English footie is it just fan culture that prevents teams moving, or are there legal or other barriers?
I think one issue is whether they keep their place in the pyramid of leagues - the fan-owned team founded in the aftermath had to start in the bottom. MK Dons did keep their place in the league so, presumably, the FA approved it. Though my understanding is that as well as fan anger, the football authorities have more or less said it won't happen again.
It's not an English footie thing though so much as a footie thing. I don't think it's happened in Spain or Italy and it certainly couldn't be allowed in Germany where the fans own 51% of the club - except for a couple of ones that were basically the clubs of company towns, I think Volkswagen has a club.
Something similar happened here a few years ago. In 2007 Granada 74, backed by a sugardaddy president, at that time in the 3rd division (4th step in the pyramid), bought Ciudad de Murcia, at that time in the 2nd division, and merged them, creating a new 2nd division team based on Ciudad de Murcia, but based in Granada and named Granada 74. There were some legal arguments but it was finally allowed to proceed, although it didn't last long, got relegated a couple of times and dissappeared.
Re: German company teams, I believe it's Wolfsburg the one that started out as Volkswagen's team, and there's also Bayer Leverkussen.
Half of the Japanese league started out as company teams.
Hell, go back far enough and the same is true of a lot of British teams even to an extent. Sunderland was originally a bunch of school teachers.
Quote from: Tyr on March 09, 2012, 12:33:04 AM
The draft- I've never entirely been able to wrap my head around that one. It makes me wonder....might teams not take a dive one year when they know they have a bad team but know there are some amazing prospects on the horizon which they want to get first pick for?
Sure, which is why the NBA instituted a draft lottery back in the 80's (the Patrick Ewing lottery IIRC). The 7 teams with the worst records enter a lottery for overall #1 pick, with the worst record team having the best chance of winning.
Doesn't seem worth it to tank a season for a guy who spent most of his career as the 4th best center in the league.
Quote from: Tyr on March 09, 2012, 12:33:04 AM
The draft- I've never entirely been able to wrap my head around that one. It makes me wonder....might teams not take a dive one year when they know they have a bad team but know there are some amazing prospects on the horizon which they want to get first pick for?
Too many players and coaches have too many incentive-laden contracts to really allow that sort of thing; contracts have everything built in for additional bonuses, from the number of carries to number of wins.
It's really not a realistic scenario, especially near the end of the season, when tanking could seem plausible.
Quote from: Peter Wiggin on March 09, 2012, 06:01:50 AM
Doesn't seem worth it to tank a season for a guy who spent most of his career as the 4th best center in the league.
No team would ever tank an entire season--the danger is a team with the 2nd or 3rd worst record dumping games to get the overall #1.
Quote from: Admiral Yi on March 09, 2012, 05:51:22 AM
Sure, which is why the NBA instituted a draft lottery back in the 80's (the Patrick Ewing lottery IIRC). The 7 teams with the worst records enter a lottery for overall #1 pick, with the worst record team having the best chance of winning.
If anything, a lottery is more suspect than the concept of tanking. :lol:
Quote from: CountDeMoney on March 09, 2012, 06:12:54 AM
If anything, a lottery is more suspect than the concept of tanking. :lol:
:huh:
Quote from: Admiral Yi on March 09, 2012, 06:13:20 AM
Quote from: CountDeMoney on March 09, 2012, 06:12:54 AM
If anything, a lottery is more suspect than the concept of tanking. :lol:
:huh:
Do you trust any kind of lottery? THE BALLS ARE FIXED, MAN. MAGNETS.
I forgot for a second who I was talking to. :lol:
Quote from: Admiral Yi on March 09, 2012, 06:19:00 AM
I forgot for a second who I was talking to. :lol:
I mean, really...who
really seals those team envelopes? :tinfoil: :tinfoil: :tinfoil:
Quote from: Sheilbh on March 09, 2012, 12:23:06 AM
Although I suppose their draft system means it's not like the Premier League where you've got a few top teams and then everyone else is fighting for position mid-table or against relegation (the lower leagues seem far, far more competitive though). Because (from my understanding) the last team gets first pick next time round and the best gets last it means there's more potential for all the teams in the league to do well.
Seems to me the salary cap is more important than the draft for creating competitive balance.
Quote from: CountDeMoney on March 09, 2012, 06:07:51 AM
Too many players and coaches have too many incentive-laden contracts to really allow that sort of thing; contracts have everything built in for additional bonuses, from the number of carries to number of wins.
It's really not a realistic scenario, especially near the end of the season, when tanking could seem plausible.
This. I know certain players may coast towards the end of a losing season, but that's usually to avoid getting hurt. Coaches put even more hours in towards the end of a losing season. If not for incentives, then for job security. If not for job security, then to build their resume for their next job.
Granted I only have one solid example to go by, but the Bengals have had several teams' worth of such seasons :)