Your favorite team doesn't give a damn about you

[Josquius]

Gups: with English footie is it just fan culture that prevents teams moving, or are there legal or other barriers?

I think one issue is whether they keep their place in the pyramid of leagues - the fan-owned team founded in the aftermath had to start in the bottom.  MK Dons did keep their place in the league so, presumably, the FA approved it.  Though my understanding is that as well as fan anger, the football authorities have more or less said it won't happen again.

It's not an English footie thing though so much as a footie thing.  I don't think it's happened in Spain or Italy and it certainly couldn't be allowed in Germany where the fans own 51% of the club - except for a couple of ones that were basically the clubs of company towns, I think Volkswagen has a club.

There's also another factor to consider for how it happened that one time and why it won't happen again. Milton Keynes is quite a unique town. Its the biggest new town around, being founded in the middle of nowhere in the 20th century, well after football in England was well established. As a result it lacked a football team.
I just can't think of any towns in the same situation as Milton Keynes. Our two new towns up in the north east for example fall well within the catchment area for the already pre-existing teams, Washington being part of the Tyne and Wear urban area and Peterlee rather small there's just not much room for another team up here.
Milton Keynes is the only place where there was really a clear market for a new team and no suitable pre-existing team- its more than possible that one of the non-league clubs there could have been built up but in combination with Wimbledon's problems.....it was quite a special situation.

Also, contrast the league situation in the UK to that in the US.
In the US there is such a gulf between the "Premier" leagues and the lower leagues. They don't have the league pyramid in the way we do. They have the majors where all the money is then....some...minor....unimportant....leagues....
Yet at the same time they have a lot more big cities which are capable of supporting a top class team than we do.
They really do seem to have quite strange situation over there from this POV and it does kind of explain all their moving teams. Whilst in the UK we have broad overlapping catchment areas for loads of teams big and small all over the country in the US they just have isolated splodges scattered around.
If US sports were less closed door and there were promotion/relegation systems in place I don't think you would see it so much.

[Sheilbh]

I hadn't thought of the geographical angle but you're right.  Most of the time if there's a millionaire who wants his town to have a decent football then there's no need to buy a franchise and bring it to the town, he'll be able to go the Dave Whelan approach and buy the local team and bring them up.  And yeah, I can't think of anywhere else like Milton Keynes.

It's possibly part of the reason why college sports are so big in the US?  They're more identified and tied with that area, and they cover the whole country far more narrowly I imagine.  But I agree it does seem odd from a British perspective because the US could very easily support a multi-league pyramid. 

Although I suppose their draft system means it's not like the Premier League where you've got a few top teams and then everyone else is fighting for position mid-table or against relegation (the lower leagues seem far, far more competitive though).  Because (from my understanding) the last team gets first pick next time round and the best gets last it means there's more potential for all the teams in the league to do well.

[Josquius]

On millionaires bringing up their local teams... The example of Hoffenheim is partiuclarly crazy. A top German team in a town of under 4,000

http://news.bbc.co.uk/sport2/hi/football/teams/s/sunderland/8816646.stm

The draft- I've never entirely been able to wrap my head around that one. It makes me wonder....might teams not take a dive one year when they know they have a bad team but know there are some amazing prospects on the horizon which they want to get first pick for?

[jimmy olsen]

On millionaires bringing up their local teams... The example of Hoffenheim is partiuclarly crazy. A top German team in a town of under 4,000

http://news.bbc.co.uk/sport2/hi/football/teams/s/sunderland/8816646.stm

The draft- I've never entirely been able to wrap my head around that one. It makes me wonder....might teams not take a dive one year when they know they have a bad team but know there are some amazing prospects on the horizon which they want to get first pick for?

The lower league teams in Baseball and Hockey are basically owned by the major league, while in Basketball and Football the lower leagues are the Colleges.

Sometimes they do take a dive, or at least are accused of doing so.

[Syt]

On millionaires bringing up their local teams... The example of Hoffenheim is partiuclarly crazy. A top German team in a town of under 4,000

http://news.bbc.co.uk/sport2/hi/football/teams/s/sunderland/8816646.stm

Those things tend to end up ugly, though.

Cult club FC St. Pauli had a very benevolent president. Not of the "I'll take them to the Champions League" type, but whenever there was a deficit in the budget he paid it from his own cash. There was some ugly infighting at some point which pushed "Papa Weisener" (as the president was affectionately called) to withdraw his support. The club spent many years getting its finances sorted out again because they weren't used to balancing budgets, cutting corners or economizing.

[The Larch]

Gups: with English footie is it just fan culture that prevents teams moving, or are there legal or other barriers?

I think one issue is whether they keep their place in the pyramid of leagues - the fan-owned team founded in the aftermath had to start in the bottom.  MK Dons did keep their place in the league so, presumably, the FA approved it.  Though my understanding is that as well as fan anger, the football authorities have more or less said it won't happen again.

It's not an English footie thing though so much as a footie thing.  I don't think it's happened in Spain or Italy and it certainly couldn't be allowed in Germany where the fans own 51% of the club - except for a couple of ones that were basically the clubs of company towns, I think Volkswagen has a club.

Something similar happened here a few years ago. In 2007 Granada 74, backed by a sugardaddy president, at that time in the 3rd division (4th step in the pyramid), bought Ciudad de Murcia, at that time in the 2nd division, and merged them, creating a new 2nd division team based on Ciudad de Murcia, but based in Granada and named Granada 74. There were some legal arguments but it was finally allowed to proceed, although it didn't last long, got relegated a couple of times and dissappeared.

Re: German company teams, I believe it's Wolfsburg the one that started out as Volkswagen's team, and there's also Bayer Leverkussen.

[Josquius]

Half of the Japanese league started out as company teams.

Hell, go back far enough and the same is true of a lot of British teams even to an extent. Sunderland was originally a bunch of school teachers.

[Admiral Yi]

The draft- I've never entirely been able to wrap my head around that one. It makes me wonder....might teams not take a dive one year when they know they have a bad team but know there are some amazing prospects on the horizon which they want to get first pick for?

Sure, which is why the NBA instituted a draft lottery back in the 80's (the Patrick Ewing lottery IIRC).  The 7 teams with the worst records enter a lottery for overall #1 pick, with the worst record team having the best chance of winning.

[Eddie Teach]

Doesn't seem worth it to tank a season for a guy who spent most of his career as the 4th best center in the league.

[CountDeMoney]

The draft- I've never entirely been able to wrap my head around that one. It makes me wonder....might teams not take a dive one year when they know they have a bad team but know there are some amazing prospects on the horizon which they want to get first pick for?

Too many players and coaches have too many incentive-laden contracts to really allow that sort of thing;  contracts have everything built in for additional bonuses, from the number of carries to number of wins. 
It's really not a realistic scenario, especially near the end of the season, when tanking could seem plausible.

[Admiral Yi]

Doesn't seem worth it to tank a season for a guy who spent most of his career as the 4th best center in the league.

No team would ever tank an entire season--the danger is a team with the 2nd or 3rd worst record dumping games to get the overall #1.

[CountDeMoney]

Sure, which is why the NBA instituted a draft lottery back in the 80's (the Patrick Ewing lottery IIRC).  The 7 teams with the worst records enter a lottery for overall #1 pick, with the worst record team having the best chance of winning.

If anything, a lottery is more suspect than the concept of tanking. 

[Admiral Yi]

If anything, a lottery is more suspect than the concept of tanking. 

[CountDeMoney]

If anything, a lottery is more suspect than the concept of tanking. 

Do you trust any kind of lottery?  THE BALLS ARE FIXED, MAN.  MAGNETS.

[Admiral Yi]

I forgot for a second who I was talking to.